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How Grant Morrison made me drop the X-Men (long post)

 
  

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NeoSpaz
16:03 / 14.08.04
I’ve been reading comics for 14 years. From the beginning, the only titles I stuck with were the X-Titles. I started out with X-Factor #65-68 and Uncanny #274-277, and just like that I met my favorite fictional characters - first, the Original Five, and then Storm’s team. Before long, the X-plosion of titles in 1991 came upon us and I was knee deep in Muties: issues of Uncanny, X-Men, X-Force and X-Factor were always on my nightstand. I became involved in the lives of these characters, and came to care about their fates. I followed the storylines through various titles, mini series and crossovers. Lobdell and Nicieza could do no wrong in my book…
Soon, I started to familiarize myself with the great works of the past – Dark Phoenix Saga, Mutant Massacre, Fall of the Mutants, Asgardian Wars and more. I came to appreciate and recognize the vast tapestry of the X-Men saga, from its roots in the Sixties to its apex (as I saw it) in the Nineties.
Somewhere along the line, I became aware of the Internet and suddenly I had a window into the inner workings of my beloved medium. Not only that, I was exposed to other opinions and interpretations of other fans. I realized that I was reading (and feeling involved with) stories that HAD no ending, stories that were PLANNED to run forever. Worse, stories that seemed to develop without pre-planning, basically just “wingin’ it” to fall in line with whatever editorial vision currently dominating the franchise.
There were bright spots, though. Up until the end of the Age of Apocalypse, I had a GREAT time, and enjoyed every minute. I realized that the stories from 1991 and onward weren’t necessarily following the vision of Chris Claremont, who I learned to admire for his commitment and classic storytelling (though some of his “high and mighty” style of writing pseudo-Shakespearean dialogue, and soap opera plots seemed forced even then), but that was fine with me. I still loved the developments in the lives of the X-Titles.
The period from 1995-1998 was a slow, yet steady decline in my affection and commitment to the X-saga. Not even Kelly & Seagle managed to “stem the tide”, especially after their run was cut short by editorial, resulting in their resignation.
Never-ending storylines (Legacy virus, 3rd Summers brother, Creed’s murder, Cable vs. Stryfe vs. Apocalypse etc.), running-in-circles character developments, subplots that led to nowhere…It was getting to be a bit much. Alan Davis’ run tied up many subplots and briefly had me excited again ( I, personally, loved Magneto ruling Genosha)…right up to the end of The Twelve (and Ages of Apocalypse) and the High Evolutionary story that followed – my absolute favorite character (Cyclops) was gone, and my favorite franchise seemed, to me, at least, inaccessible.
The 21st century brought with it the promise of a Revolution. Handled by Claremont himself, no less! What I got was a year bad stories, bad character development (why did every character revert to their mid-Eighties incarnation??) and overall lack of direction. Aside from the Counter X GenX, X-Man, Cable, Gambit, and the Cyclops mini, I felt the X-Franchise was at its lowest. I was wrong.
2001 showcased an interim run by Lobdell which was surprisingly good (until the end of Eve of Destruction, which proved to be a non-event…), but the real treat came afterwards: the Relaunch by Morrison and Casey. Suddenly the X-Men seemed fresh again! Suddenly it truly seemed new , with a 21st century flavor and sensibility ! The True Revolution was upon us! Or not.
Casey’s run proved to be a mediocre combination of lackluster storytelling too involved in its own hype. His replacement was even worse. Chuck Austen revived the X-Men soap opera on levels unseen in decades. What’s worse, he wasn’t anywhere near as prolific as Claremont in his early days. Uncanny X-Men was a reminder of all that was wrong with the franchise. During this time (the “wolves” story) I actually stopped buying UXM after 12 years…
Morrison’s New X-Men was the funnest X-perience I had in years. Ideas and concepts were turned on their heads or reinvented to create a new, self-contained, and best of all, carefully planned IN ADVANCE chapter of the X-Men. As his run came closer and closer to completion, I even returned to buying UXM in TPB’s. I was hyped about the X-Men again. The thought of Morrison’s X-Chapter and his successors’ take on the characters made me CARE about the franchise again. I even bought Claremont’s XXM to stay up-to-date on the characters’ lives (Even though I thought CC was a shadow of his former self by now). I was psyched to read the end of New X-Men and the beginning of ReLoad…
Morrison’s ending didn’t disappoint (bet you didn’t see THAT coming  – it just set a standard I was hoping the new creative teams could meet.
And then came ReLoad… Astonishing X-Men is now my favorite, basically being “New X-Men Vol.2”. As for the others – It seems someone decided that moving forward with the X-concept was too X-treme a move. Instead CC was given the “keys to the kingdom” and started to systematically remove any and all evidence that Morrison’s run ever happened. Hell, any evidence ANY stories happened post-1991. Suddenly we have good, noble Magneto back without any explanation. We have costumed, angst-ridden, soap-opera flavored Mutants back. We have friggin’ Rob Liefeld on teen-oriented X-Force again…
So, I found myself so distanced with the current state of the X-Men, I just dropped Uncanny’ Excalibur and X-Men flat cold, leaving only Astonishing X-Men (for now)

So that’s the story of how my exposure to Morrison’s run taught me to aspire to better stories, bolder concepts and high quality writing—thing currently quite rare in the X-Universe… It also serves as my version of “X-Men’s State of the Union”.


Comments?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
16:48 / 14.08.04
hooray.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
18:16 / 14.08.04
I have a feeling like that when I had been reading comics for a while and decided to follow creators and not characters. It's no coincidence that when Marvel started losing creators in the mid 90's (and let Scott Lobdell and Fabian N. write everything) that they lost a LOT of readers, but tried to stem the tide by taking out ads that it was about the characters.

The Morrison stuff was good because he's a good writer. The Claremont stuff was bad because he's horridly burned out and is still writing as if it's 1985. That's why I'm not upset about all the things Morrison did being turned back into the old stuff...I have the three hardcovers on a shelf, and that's the X-Men story I like.

What is wrong with the X-Men is that instead of looking for creators who had something new to say, they went back to the people who worked on it in it's glory days, hoping they would keep sales up. Editorial fear and laziness, for the most part. It'll last like it is now for about 3 years or so and then they'll bring in a new bunch of people with a big promotional splash and the people who start reading the books now will complain that they aren't as good as the teams we now don't like.

It's the circle of nerd life.
 
 
NeoSpaz
18:34 / 14.08.04
I can see it now:

April 2008: X-Men ReTurn!
X-Men by John Woo and Andy Kubert
Uncanny X-Men by Chris Claremont and John Byrne
X-Factor by Chris Claremont and Tony Daniel

it never ends, does it?
 
 
Professor Silly
18:47 / 15.08.04
Herein lies the true brilliance of Morrison's run. First of all, he killed the idea of continuity with this book. Let history show it! The concept of "super-consistency" replaced continuity, and I applaude this move as it allows one to read this run without going through every previous storyline by every previous writer. bleech

More importantly, however, at the end Phoenix not only destroys Sublime, she erases him from existance. This undoes the critical choice of Scott and removes the underlying motivation from all of the villians within the storyline itself.

What I'm saying here is that Morrison left an out for any future writer to ignore just about any part of his run. If Magneto wasn't infected by Sublime then why would he do those terrible things?!? he wouldn't...it must not have been him (shrug). The U-Men...I'm not sure that happened at all...was it a dream (shrug)

Personally I enjoyed this run of X-men more than any other...and I see it as self contained while still contributing to the overall "mythos."
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
01:16 / 16.08.04
I don't understand this thread. It says the guy dropped X-Men and then it turns out he's still buying X-Men. What's that all about? Is it just another excuse for people to try and paper over Grant Morrison's massive plotholes? Oh, it is? RoX0r!
 
 
NeoSpaz
02:54 / 16.08.04
Flyboy, if youv'e gone and read the whole post, you'd see that I NO LONGER buy X-Men, because having been spoiled by the high standards Morrison set, I found myself underwhelmed (to say the least) wwith ReLoad...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
03:02 / 16.08.04
Are you or are you not buying Astonishing X-Men?
 
 
Michelle Gale
10:31 / 16.08.04
at the end Phoenix not only destroys Sublime, she erases him from existance.

i didn't get that, if sublime was removed from existance then surely that means the x-men have won and everyone has big multispecies non angry hugs, as that dna meaness no longer exists.

Having said that i may have missed something, I had to get told by someone that cassie was martha's wrinkley friend.
 
 
Ben Danes
10:47 / 16.08.04
Nah. Jean didn't eliminate Sublime. She amputated that future, by causing Scott to move on, ensuring that future, as it occurred, won't happen. She may have eliminate Sublime in that future (I'm pretty sure she did actually, because the Phoenix says 'disinfection complete' when she takes him out of Hank), but she didn't reach into the past and retroactively erase him.

Hence why Johnny boy popped up in Weapon X recently. Although, given that I don't read Weapon X, it could have just been a flashback or something.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:39 / 16.08.04
The Sublime who popped up in Weapon X was just the guy who led the U-Men and was involved with Weapon Plus. Of course, since Morrison never bothered to explain what the hell that character had to do with an intelligent DNA strand, it's all a little confusing...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:09 / 16.08.04
The Sublime virus/intelligent slime-mold thingy, often takes human hosts in order to try and scheme to stop genetic diversification on earth, hence John Sublime, Beast Sublime in the future and Dr Sublime. It is actually explained in that last issue of Grant's.
 
 
Michelle Gale
15:38 / 16.08.04
who's Dr Sublime?

And isnt the Sublime thing such a supercool idea(and the U-men), fair enough its a bit "parasite eve" but theres so much scope to tell storys with the concept. and the depressing thing is its pretty darn unlikely anyone will use it, having said that hopefully Peter Milligan may do something with it, as he is a clever chap.
 
 
Mario
16:03 / 16.08.04
Dr. Sublime ran the U-Men.

John Sublime worked with Weapon X.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:49 / 16.08.04
NeoSpaz, what do you think of Joss' ASTONISHING X-MEN? It's pretty good post-Grant M. X-stuff, and honors GM's run nicely.
 
 
MFreitas
16:51 / 16.08.04
Wrong! JOHN Sublime ran the U-Men; DOCTOR Sublime ran Weapon Plus. Tieri retconned them into the same person, though it clearly shows how little Tieri really understood Grant's concept.

Both Sublimes were mere pawns, victims of the genetic/memetic contamination by the rogue bacteria known as SUBLIME. Sublime didn't overtake "hosts", otherwise he could have used the entire humankind as hosts, thus ensuring the destruction of all mutants. The "hosts" had to embrace the Sublime MeMe in order to "become" him or, more correctly, to become aware of him.
 
 
The Natural Way
14:36 / 17.08.04
Which is fine. I never found that stuff particularly confusing. I mean, it could have been expanded upoun, but I don't know why yr moaning, Fly. Why so grouchy all of a sudden? You like NXM, didn't you?
 
 
Professor Silly
15:34 / 17.08.04
...final issue, page 19: Sublime gets destroyed in some kind of thrasher machine within the M'krann crystal, after which she grows the replacement future.

So it seems to me that if Sublime is destroyed by the Phoenix corp then he is in fact erased from all existance. This was the whole point of Phoenix coming back to Jean--to erase the biological drive which encouraged all the fighting between humans and mutants in the first place. This allows for the possibility (not inevitability) of lasting peace in the X-Men's future.

...or maybe I just smoked way too much hash while reading this story last time....
 
 
Michelle Gale
16:05 / 17.08.04
I kind of got the impression Sublime had aways existed, going around de-stablising humanity by causing conflict so that they couldnt pose a threat to it. But then mutants arrived and it actively has to kill them as they are a direct threat to its control.

And anyway isnt Sublime in everyone, it just it took overiding control of John and the Beast, I dont see any reason why it cant come back.
 
 
NeoSpaz
16:18 / 17.08.04
I found Astonishing to be the best x-title right now.
However, it seems to me that Whedon hasn't decided whether he's doing New X-Men Season 2 or the Home team-as opposed to X-Master Claremont book
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:44 / 17.08.04
MFreitas Both Sublimes were mere pawns, victims of the genetic/memetic contamination by the rogue bacteria known as SUBLIME. Sublime didn't overtake "hosts", otherwise he could have used the entire humankind as hosts, thus ensuring the destruction of all mutants. The "hosts" had to embrace the Sublime MeMe in order to "become" him or, more correctly, to become aware of him.

Do you have any evidence for that, or is it just supposition on your part?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:54 / 17.08.04
I don't know why yr moaning, Fly. Why so grouchy all of a sudden? You like NXM, didn't you?

I'm grouchy because I'm sick to death of threads that don't say anything new or worthwhile, but instead just add to the pile of uncritical Morrison-worshipping wank of which Barbelith already has a surplus. Yes, I enjoyed NXM, but there were many holes and even simple continuity gaps/errors, and it frustrates me greatly that there are so many people here who are willing to overlook that or, worse, fill in the gaps with their admittedly drug-addled, confused fanfic burblings.

Christ, NeoSpaz says he's "dropped the X-Men", when in fact he's still buying the flagship X-Men title. What does all that nonsense about "can't decide whether he's blah blah NXM Season 2 or the Home Team" mean? What's the 'Home Team'? This makes no sense. Hey shit, maybe Joss Whedon's just having his own turn and making a few nods to Morrison's run but not trying to replicate it? Oh no, someone not trying to replicate Grant Morrison! OH NO.
 
 
Michelle Gale
17:54 / 17.08.04
but there were many holes and even simple continuity gaps/errors, and it frustrates me greatly that there are so many people here who are willing to overlook that or, worse, fill in the gaps with their admittedly drug-addled, confused fanfic burblings.

Heaven forbid Mr Morrison should perhaps ask his reader's to think, i mean who the fuck does he think he is!
Just because something hasnt been made completely explicit does not mean it aint there, yo.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:15 / 17.08.04
While there's a degree of subjectivity involved, the difference between leaving stuff implicit for the reader to figure out, and the confusing lack of a necessary explanation, or the presence of a continuity glitch, has been discussed many times here. If there are many plot issues left unresolved, and questions that nobody seems able to answer, one can only conclude that the writer has gone too far in "leaving things for people to figure out themselves". I'd appreciate it if you would have a stab at answering the following two questions, for starters, with reference to where in the text you're getting the evidence on which you're basing your conclusions:

1) What is the connection between Cassandra Nova and John Sublime's U-Men? What is the extent of Beast's knowledge of this connection, since he mentions that there is one?

2) What happens to EVA between being severely damaged and left on the exploding Weapon Plus satellite, and turning up right as rain in New York in part 4 of 'Planet X'?
 
 
Michelle Gale
18:29 / 17.08.04
You are one angry fanboy

But seeing as im feeling nice:

What is the connection between Cassandra Nova and John Sublime's U-Men? What is the extent of Beast's knowledge of this connection, since he mentions that there is one?

There is no connection. Beast was guessing, they also thought the nano machine colds were from Cassandra but were wrong about that as well.

What happens to EVA between being severely damaged and left on the exploding Weapon Plus satellite, and turning up right as rain in New York in part 4 of 'Planet X'?

Thats a bit anal isnt it, the extent of Eva's abilities aren't really shown but she does seem pretty darned adaptive, and anyway why do you care.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:38 / 17.08.04
What a remarkably silly question. I think Flyboy cares because you took issue with the statement that Morrison left gaping plot holes in the storyline.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:38 / 17.08.04
Dude, you've just shifted the goalposts. I complain there are plotholes and you insist that no, that's stuff for the audience to figure out, and then when given examples you just say "that's not important, why do you care?"...

I care because Morrison wanted me to feel tension about the fate of a character's apparent injury and possible death, and then they appeared unscathed with no explanation a few issues later. Am I being anal? It depends how much slack you're willing to cut lazy writing, really. I tend to cut Morrison a lot more slack when I don't have to read threads going on about how brilliant he is.

There's no connection between Sublime and Cassandra Nova? That would simplify manners, wouldn't it? So why are so many people on Barbelith convinced that there is one, to the point where some people think Cassie was part of the Weapon Plus programme?
 
 
Michelle Gale
19:32 / 17.08.04
Dude, you've just shifted the goalposts. I complain there are plotholes and you insist that no, that's stuff for the audience to figure out, and then when given examples you just say "that's not important, why do you care?"...

Its not really a plot "hole" just something that wasn't gone into detail about, Its not significant to the progression of the story, and undue emphasis on it would have detracted from the main thrust (huhuh) of that arc, and is kind of immaterial. Whereas your first point was not.

There's no connection between Sublime and Cassandra Nova? That would simplify manners, wouldn't it? So why are so many people on Barbelith convinced that there is one,

Of cause it would simplify matters because it makes sense.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:46 / 17.08.04
I tend to cut Morrison a lot more slack when I don't have to read threads going on about how brilliant he is.

Fly, I get what you're saying, the whole EVA thing does seem to be a continuity fuckup, and rather a major one... but really... do you actually, really, "have to read" ANYTHING? You could just, you know, not bother.
 
 
Aertho
20:07 / 17.08.04
There's no connection between Sublime and Cassandra Nova? That would simplify manners, wouldn't it? So why are so many people on Barbelith convinced that there is one, to the point where some people think Cassie was part of the Weapon Plus programme?

No. A thousand times no. Of course there is a connection between Sublime and Cassandra and the U-Men and Weapon Plus — Because Because Because the entire story sums up and unifies all enemies and all "toxic" aggression as being the on-going process of the Sublime genecode's machinations. That's the whole point of Here Comes Tomorrow. "Don't Fight. Don't let him contaminate you."

Now granted, I'm one of those people who developed the big bandaid for that particular plot hole, but it's just a transparent plot hole. It's there, just not easily visible. Diz and Flux both went through the steps that allowed for Cassandra to be the story's Weapon 11. The bandaid solidifies a lot. It's not worth retyping now, because somebody nice will link it.
 
 
Michelle Gale
20:33 / 17.08.04
No. A thousand times no. Of course there is a connection between Sublime and Cassandra and the U-Men and Weapon Plus — Because Because Because the entire story sums up and unifies all enemies and all "toxic" aggression as being the on-going process of the Sublime genecode's machinations. That's the whole point of Here Comes Tomorrow. "Don't Fight. Don't let him contaminate you."

It sums up everything apart from Cassandra surely,
Cassandra is not a "weapon" the weapons are humans/mutants that have been augmented using technology to kill mutants.
Cassandra is something completely different she's "living emotional energy" that copied Charles's body, so effectively she has no DNA which means that Sublime cannot influence her, if anything she poses a threat to Sublime as she's yet another new strain of life adding variety to the planet and anyway she only wants to kill Charles not all mutants.
 
 
Aertho
20:59 / 17.08.04
Only Cassandra's the only other "enemy" from the beginning AND the end of the story. Cassandra is pretty much the MOST changed character from the story... and as for being "living emotional energy", aren't we all? And isn't what we DO with that energy the point of the entire run? We may start out lashing out at the world and clinging to adolescent power fantasies, but we learn to be better people and grow up.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:30 / 17.08.04
Do you actually, really, have to read anything ?

Not to presume to answer for Fly, but I think so, yeah. Once you've got " hooked " on an ongoing series of fictional events ( telly show, novel, comic, whatever, ) seeing as the whole point of these things is that once you've got started, you'll ideally see them through to the end of a particular storyline, at least, and that you can't tell in any case if it's all going to work until you get to the finish, it seems a bit disingenuous to suggest you should drop off halfway on the basis of plotlines/teasers, unresolved inconsistencies ( of which in NXM, let's face it, there are more than a few, ) when you're mainly sticking round for the final denouement. And that, if a lot of that's left hanging out to dry somewhere, you're not entitled to feel that you haven't been, too.

Plus I do feel, personally, that George phoned a lot of that in.

The bastard.
 
 
Michelle Gale
06:06 / 18.08.04
Cassandra is pretty much the MOST changed character from the story... and as for being "living emotional energy", aren't we all? And isn't what we DO with that energy the point of the entire run? We may start out lashing out at the world and clinging to adolescent power fantasies, but we learn to be better people and grow up.

Well no the point is made that Cassandra is something completely different from humans /mutants, a new completely different form of life, its hinted at that she can do almost anything.

And isn't what we DO with that energy the point of the entire run? We may start out lashing out at the world and clinging to adolescent power fantasies, but we learn to be better people and grow up.

Fair enough i wouldn't disagree with that, but it doesn't mean Cassie has anything to do with Sublime. I
 
 
Michelle Gale
06:15 / 18.08.04
ahhhhhhh the geekery
 
  

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