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Underground > Comic Books >

Best. Comic. Ever. ?

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15:20 / 26.07.04

I'm surprised nobody's said Jimmy Corrigan yet.

i did, stoat. you just weren't listening.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

15:50 / 26.07.04

I'll second props to Jimmy C for:

a) "And, of course, he never did..." OUCH.

and

b) The final eyebrow raise and then cut to beautiful snowscape. Best ending ever? Yeah-huh.

17:28 / 26.07.04

...any storyline taken out of context just seems overly complicated and silly.

I've read The Kindly Ones, cheers, along with most of Gaiman's other important works.

And guess what?

Still not keen.

19:46 / 26.07.04

Me? I like Gaimans stuff an awful lot. And I don't think everything Grant Morrison writes is perfect. I'll probably get banned from the site for saying that.

And for saying the following - the comic that had the biggest emotional impact for me (because I so liked the characters and was going through a similarly shitty patch) would be the 'Big Fight' episode of J.L.I.

Blue Beetle vs Guy Garder. In a boxing ring.

I laughed, I cried, I became a cliche.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:43 / 26.07.04

did, stoat. you just weren't listening.

Sorry, I do that sometimes.

23:35 / 26.07.04

I've got to give another bit of respect to The Kindly Ones. I still remember reading it the first time, and being completely engrosssed in the story, getting carried along. There's so many amazing bits, it's probably the best final arc of any long run comic, brilliantly tying everything together, and leaving you fulfilled. I almost wish The Wake didn't exist, because The Kindly Ones is such a perfect finale.

Keith, like a scientist

03:58 / 27.07.04

being keen on gaiman isn't really my point. i don't really care if you don't like him or his comics. i just love the snide backhands everyone gives him around here.

admittedly, 1602 was basically 10 turds in a dirty bucket, or however long the stinking thing was. as are some of his other works. i love stardust (another emotional impact comic there), love american gods, i am fond of neverwhere, i like 3 or 4 of his short stories immensely (murder mysteries and snow, glass, apples among them), find the rest of them amusing at times. i was bored with Endless Nights blah blah blah.

oh wait, sorry. my point about the Kindly Ones was: it's for people who *do* like Sandman.

but, you know, we are the Silly Ones.

12:06 / 27.07.04

For me it is Akira. The story was so long and epic, that you read the stories of these characters over years of their lives. So when it all climaxed in Vol 6, I really did feel emotionally attached to these characters.

Lone Wolf and Cub, because Itto's struggle against Retsudo is so personal and deep, that towards book 20 or so, you really feel the desperation both of these men feel.

Preacher also involved my emotions, mainly because it was so engaging.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

14:33 / 27.07.04

But, Patrick! You need The Wake. Matthew's eulogy is one of the all-time best Sandman scenes EVAH.

Haus of Mystery

15:53 / 27.07.04

I think Gaiman gets enough gushing adulation everywhere else, so a few digs from the odd 'lither is hardly a cause for concern. I find his writing often to be self-satisfied and twee. I have also enjoyed some of his work - I liked The Golden Age, and the odd Sandman book (The Kindly Ones was improved infinitely cos of Marc Hempel's beautiful art IMHO). But generally he gets on my tits and I don't understand the arse-licking he always gets.

15:56 / 27.07.04

i think any criticism of neil gaiman is pathetically churlish when you consider just how goddam cool that hair/shades/leather jacket combo is.

Keith, like a scientist

16:08 / 27.07.04

i forgot about Akira. hell yes. Akira. Wow.

16:50 / 27.07.04

>> i think any criticism of neil gaiman is pathetically churlish when you consider just how goddam cool that hair/shades/leather jacket combo is.

But does he wear chains?

The Natural Way

16:51 / 27.07.04

Yeah, Hempel's art rocks.

Death, Destiny, Despair, Delirium, Destruction, Desire, Dream and....Daniel.

The Endless - there, before the gods. But Gaiman forgot one: *Deepness*.

17:25 / 27.07.04

Keith, I'm not sure I explained myself properly.

...any storyline taken out of context just seems overly complicated and silly.

Yes, I more or less agree with that statement.

The thing is, Gaiman's stories often seem a little silly to me despite having read them in their entirety. That's not to say I think he's an awful writer, or that I've never enjoyed his output, I just think he's a bit overrated and rather pretentious.

Oh yeah, and the guy was trying to sell me goth when it was all Es, hooded-tops, dancing and all night raves. Prat.

at the scarwash

17:26 / 27.07.04

What about Rick's Story or Guys, when you really started to realized that Dave Sim had gone right round the hairpin curve of no return, and Cerebus would never really be worth caring about again. That was quite damaging to me.

Jimmy Corrigan left me void and howling for a week. No other writer has left me with such a feeling of hopeless disconnection and the absolute impossibility of ever really returning to the world since I OD'ed on Ballard once, reading War Fever at one sitting at a coffeeshop in Corpus Christi, TX.

Keith, like a scientist

11:58 / 28.07.04

i'd have to go with the popular Jaka's Story...for emotional impact that one hits me a little more.

bobossboy...ah...i gotcha now. i can't argue with that. i'm obviously a little biased towards gaiman. i certainly allow that he isn't great all the time, and, yeah, i'm sick of the goth stuff. but, that said, i stand by a number of his stories...and i guess it bugs me when people dismiss gaiman left and right.

plus, I remember actually being sad that Dream was dead. not that he was that likable of a character or someone i felt like i got to know that much, but the way Gaiman wrote The Kindly Ones made me understand how tragic the character was... that simple "you can't change who you are" theme. so i still point to that as an emotional impact for me in comics.

anyway...sorry if i was getting all bitchy.

12:43 / 28.07.04

That issue of the 70's Japanese version of Spider-Man by the creator of Crying Freeman, where Spidey makes the choice to let the woman who's like a walking disaster area, whose sadness and grief are manifesting as a snowstorm that's killing people on their feet, (she can't conciously control her power, and it lashes out and kills anyone trying to stop her) end her own life. That one sequence where she's standing on the edge of the bridge, and Spider-Man has his arm out ready to web her, and he just stays frozen as she smiles once, and steps off.
And the storyline with Electro, where he finds out a friend of his is working as a prostitute to try and work off her brother's gambling debt, so he goes after Electro for the reward, to help her, and he kills Electro, only to discover he was the brother...
And he even made the Kangaroo an interesting, dangerous and sympathetic character. I'd like to see Marvel America attempt something with that degree of emotional resonance, moral ambiguity, and risk-taking.

14:42 / 28.07.04

Dare, the Morrison update of good old Captain Dan Dare was great for emotional impact.

The first story that got me was Strontium Dog, the whole back story of his dad hating him always choked me up.

V for Vendetta blew me away as a young kid reading warrior (in fact just about everything in warrior blew me away).

But the winner for me was the episode of Captain Britain when Betsy is being beaten to near death by the Weapons Master (think that was his name?) and Brian swoops in and fights him.

Spoiler

The moment when the villian looks up at Brain and tells him he is too weak to finish him off, and Brian after a panel beat where he hesitates and then smashes a rock into his head - you really feel the emotion of Cap Britain in that bit.

16:36 / 28.07.04

Love & Rockets: Death of Speedy, I think is my most favourite comic story ever. I read it in several bits over several years before I got the collection and it always resonated with whatever was happening in my life at the time, more than anything else.

16:44 / 28.07.04

David Boring

Discovered it when i was thirteen and it fucked me up mightily, but in a good way.

Haus of Mystery

17:27 / 28.07.04

Anna - did you read it in Deadline, cos that's where I first encountered Love & Rockets. I miss that comic.

The Natural Way

20:09 / 28.07.04

Why don't you buy it then?

I'm not sure what you mean, you thick shithead.

That's fair enough, isn't it?

The Natural Way

20:12 / 28.07.04

Oh, I'm sorry, you meant Deadline not L&R.

My mistake.

Yr still a thick shithead, though.

Haus of Mystery

13:42 / 29.07.04

Read then post. Engage brain before opening mouth.

14:39 / 29.07.04

>> Dare, the Morrison update of good old Captain Dan Dare was great for emotional impact.

I REALLY WANT "DARE" RELEASED IN PAPERBACK!! Morrison and Rian Hughes blew my teenage mind. I tried to find a paperback of it once via a net search - if it exists, there are apparently almost no copies around?

Haus of Mystery

15:57 / 29.07.04

I've got a lovely version (released by xpresso books I think) that's long out of print. You can have it for £1000.

The Photographer in Blowup

17:54 / 29.07.04

V For Vendetta, obviously!

V is one of the most beautiful, sensitive and decent characters that ever graced fiction, definitely the stuff Atticus Finch, Gregor Samsa, Superman and Agent Dale Cooper are made of.

Yeah, I understand by our standards, V would be a terrorist, but he's not the hypocritical Magneto with his crazy old ideas who's killed thousands of innocents over the years.

There's something serene in the way he gets his revenge - just remember how peacefully and gently he puts an end to the female scientist who worked on the camp V was experimented on. And his never-ending altruism and hope Humanity will rise above mediocrity once again is inspiring and so opposite to the dark cynicism that defines modern ‘heroes.’

And his moments with Evey – oh, when she asks V if he’s her father, and his answer is so definite, cold and honest

and the satisfaction he feels when Evey refuses to pluck the rose that’d kill the men who wronged her… even though he is a killer and understands her feelings towards revenge, he convinces her not to stoop so low. It’s such a powerful scene.

V is perfect, I guess.

The Natural Way

20:07 / 29.07.04

I don't remember V judging Evey's decision at all, but I could be wrong and I don't have the comic in front of me, so........... Doesn't he just put the question to her, making sure she's fully aware of what plucking the flower would mean?

One thing I know, V's my favourite Moore book, and I'm pleased so many people agree with me. But don't just agree because it's me. I'm not that great.

The Natural Way

20:09 / 29.07.04

Another thing: I'm not sure I read V's actions as "revenge". I mean, you could read it that way, but there's always the possibility that he's just clearing the ground. Bumping off the witnesses, so to speak.

09:42 / 30.07.04

So, a week on from the original question, and I reckon the original proposal stands. Interesting that despite the love of GM on the board, Mr Moore kicks arse with such an old comic. I had forgotten Dare. It completely freaked me when I first read it. I have the horrible feeling I flogged my copies of Revolver on ebay a while ago.
So, yes AD, I think you were right. I also now remember Coil. Scary people. I had blanked them.

10:17 / 30.07.04

I had a copy of the collected Dare that I just gave away, unlucky, Finderwolf, if you had just been a few months earlier you could have had it. That was such a great story, especially if you had read Eagle as a child, it just blew it all away.

11:29 / 30.07.04

Well the original Eagle stories are jaw-droppingly beautiful in their own right... and have recently been re-released...

Haus of Mystery

11:49 / 30.07.04

So retro-future. Pretty jaw dropping stuff. Frank Hampson actually tried to design rocketships that might conceivably work.

11:55 / 30.07.04

Well the original Eagle stories are jaw-droppingly beautiful in their own right

They’re nice and all, but I’d take Bellamy over Hampson any old day of the week. Bellamy gives me such a ‘wow! the future!’ rush. Can’t believe all his stuff is out of print. This world makes no sense.

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