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Underground > Comic Books >

Best. Comic. Ever. ?

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18:01 / 23.07.04

Last night dahn the pub Amethyst Receiver claimed V for Vendetta was the best comic ever as it had the most powerful emotional impact of any comic ever written. I pooh poohed it until I ran through my shelves today and reluctantly think I might have to agree.
Sure, you can argue that many comics are better on other criteria (structure, art, entertainment, yada yada), but apart from a few moments here and there (end of Small Killing, end of Grant's Animal Man, bits of Flex, scraps of Cerebus) the only title I could come up with would be Maus. However, given that it relies for its impact on a reference to real history, I'm loath to stick it above V (for some reason I can't quite articulate).
So, throw me a few that have ripped open your guts and flooded your tear ducts. Share the passion, people.

19:00 / 23.07.04

Interesting choice of criterion for a comicbok but I'll give it a whirl:

Blankets by Scott Thompson.

Really got to me this one. However, I have to confess a large amount of my astonishment comes from this being the first truly autobiographical comicbok I have ever enjoyed. There's just something so very captivating about his three-way struggle between his religious, artistic, and human needs.

That and the fact that I SO knew that chick in high school. I'm sure we all did.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

19:11 / 23.07.04

Scott Thompson? I think you're looking for Craig!

19:24 / 23.07.04

Shit.

You're right. . .

So who's Scott Thompson?

19:30 / 23.07.04

George Morrison's cousin.

20:01 / 23.07.04

Well, for starters, Stray Bullets. The one where...

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

...Orson dies.

20:44 / 23.07.04

Cor blimey hmm more emotional then V or Maus (oddly Maus was one of the first "real" comics i read Watchman being the first !).

For me I suppose Zenith phase I (was going to say invisibles just for "my god that's in a comic now") .
SPOILERS (if you've not read it !)

but had to be the moment when he killed Red Dragon and at the age I was reading it , just didnt happen (and I kind of indentifed with Rhys !). Ive never forgiven Mr Morrison (nor understood the logic of burning to death a pyrokentic , but hey i now realise it would have buggered the story complety as the Uberman couldnt propably have beaten Rhys i na straight fight anyway

). When i play Red Dragon in teh film adaption ill have words !

21:12 / 23.07.04

Shade 50.

Actualy Shade from the end of American Scream till 50.

That comic affected me more than any other ever has.

Other characters have been killed off, but that one seem so much more real. I just sat in Burger King staring (probably slack jawed, with bits of whopper dropping out of my mouth -- Withnail style), for a good few minutes, at the comic in my hands. Nothing before or since has done that to me, comic or book.

I remember reading the Preacher where Wassername got shot, and thinking "Oh well, she'll be back soon", but with Kathy, it really seemed like losing an old friend.

22:29 / 23.07.04

Its funny: when I read the topic I thought immediately "V For Vendetta, no doubt". It shares some issues with Maus (which I finished reading just yesterday), yet it is more abrangent. While Maus has a more familiar touch in the relationship of Art with his father Vladek, V for Vendetta tells a bigger story with many aspects (and characters): the holocaust, the fascist government and its effect on people, a nuclear war, homossexuality, pedophilia, political intrigue, confront between political ideals, and...freedom.

All in all, I think V For Vendetta has a great deal of comics' greatest moments, immensely powerful in its intensity. Maus, being based in a true story, doesn't have so many of these moments, in part because Art Spiegelman decided to tell the story based on the metaphore of animals (german = cats; jews = mice etc.), thus making the whole story less horrible (otherwise, I don't think he could get to finish it...).Even so, Maus has a really powerful emotional impact.

Personally, although I recognize the genius in Watchmen, From Hell (the chapter of the killing in the bedroom is simply astounding), Dark Knight, etc., I think of V for Vendetta as the best comic book ever.

23:26 / 23.07.04

v for vendetta still towers way above the rest. they'll be writing theses and dissertations on that one for many years to come. chris ware's jimmy corrigan also elicited a strong response from me, but more depressing than rousing, and didn't leave a lasting impression, overall. i wonder what we3 has in store..

00:19 / 24.07.04

Czernobog, Scott Thompson is off The Kids in The Hall and Larry Sanders...

Best comic? Eightball #22 or Kill Your Boyfriend. Maybe.

01:53 / 24.07.04

Never read V, but it should come in the mail by the end of next week. But for some reason, Flex Mentallo was very very engaging for me.

But I haven't read much on your lists here, so I'd best check them out. Was planning to one day, anyway.

02:29 / 24.07.04

Emotional impact? For sheer gutwrench, for me nothing's ever equalled "I Saw It" and the follow-up, "Barefoot Gen: After the Bomb".

03:02 / 24.07.04

(Threadrot ON)

RIGHT!

No wonder the name was associated with so many happy memories.

(Threadrot OFF)

Have to agree about MAUS. The whole thing felt unintentionally alienating. Though there's a high probability I'm wrong and it was alienating on purpose.

10:48 / 24.07.04

BillR, we're in the same situation. It's been a while since I read Flex Mentallo, but it's something that I can't let go and I find myself thinking about it very often. Curiously, I just finished re-reading the issues.

Still, I think Maus gets the prize.

The Natural Way

11:33 / 24.07.04

Maus....doesn't have so many of these moments, in part because Art Spiegelman decided to tell the story based on the metaphore of animals (german = cats; jews = mice etc.), thus making the whole story less horrible."

You think? Personally, I find the tension between the 'childish' imagery and the reality of the jewish experience of WW2 really unsettling. That child getting thrown against the wall makes me feel sick.

As for the question posed by the thread topic - how the bugger should I know? There's tons of *powerful* comics out there. I can't choose.

12:20 / 24.07.04

Yes, I also found that scene very unsettling. But if it had been done with "real children" instead of mice, I would have been even more disgusted, I think it would have been almost unberarable. I believe that the story ALWAYS has power, even with the 'childish' imagery, that is why Maus is one of the greatest comics of all time and one of the things that makes it so brilliant. Yet, I remain in my opinion that V for Vendetta is the all time best.

Art did an excellent choice by telling it with animals because it reminds us of the basic horror of the holocaust, that surpasses any medium, metaphores, allegories etc. One of the things that surprised me the most was when we see the picture of the Richieu, in the beginning of Vol.2. I wasn't ready for that, mainly because I was thinking in an almost abstract way; but when the little mouse that was Richieu finally gets a human face in our eyes, it reminds us of the reality in Maus. That leads to an interesting question: What do you think Maus would have been if it had been told without the animal allegory?

16:01 / 24.07.04

Despite their reputation as rather cold books, nothing in comics has affected like The Invisibles and Watchmen. In The Invisibles...

SPOILERS

The return of Robin in the last issue was the most powerful moment in comics for me, especially coming at the end of this 60 issue journey, it was really overwhelming. But, there's countless moments throughout the entire series, all of Best Man Fall, The Last Temptation of Jack, Edith's death, Robin leaving King Mob in Volume 2, Fanny embracing Quimper in Black Science, and countless more.

In terms of Watchmen...

Spoilers

The last page of issue 11, when Bernard the news vendor tries to save the other Bernard, it's just the most beautiful, most human moment, and in just three panels, it says more about disaster than a thousand movies like Independence Day could. Also, Hollis Mason getting beaten to death, Jon flashing through time on Mars, Laurie and Jon's talk on Mars in issue 9, and Rorshach's death.

17:17 / 24.07.04

I always felt blown away by the Cyote Gospel issue of Animal Man especialy at the piont the trucker prepares to blow the cyote away. The panel where it shows the rifle and the panel just says satan. That was emotionally powerful.

Haus of Mystery

17:49 / 24.07.04

Mmmm. Agree with that. Such a concise, heartwrenching little metaphysical story. Actually I agree with a good deal of whats been posted (End of the Invisibles, Barefoot Gen, Zenith etc..) but for good measure I'll say that readsing From Hell when I lived in Whitechapel, and visiting the places I was reading about had aprofound emotional effect on me.

23:27 / 24.07.04

I'm with Verranche/Runce - there are so many good comics out there - how can you choose, and more, why should you?

This being the case I'm not going to pick a comic i think 'The Best', but merely a fantastic comic that McGyver reminded me of when praising Brian K Vaughan's characterization. I just remember being incredibely impressed by X-Statix 10.

In the first 10 words of the script, the first panal of the comic, writer Pete Milliagan drags us headlong into the vertiginous anxiety of a girl competing with a dead woman for the affections of the man she thinks she loves.

"Dead woman's shoes. Smaller feet than mine. Probably prettier too."

The rest of the issue is pretty damn good too. If only more comics could carry a similar intensity and complexity of emotion as contained in that one panel.

10:36 / 25.07.04

I'd choose The Kindly Ones, the end of this amazing saga that is Neil Gaiman's Sandman (ok, there is another volume, but it's just an epilogue).
The Kindly Ones has all the power of a greek tragedy, and left absolutely shocked. It still does, everytime I go back to it.

-You don't have to go through with this. You can open your eyes, climb off this bed, put your life together again. There's always the choice.
-Not always. Sometimes there aren't any choices at all

10:49 / 25.07.04

there are so many good comics out there - how can you choose, and more, why should you?

seven pints of draught budwar generally does the trick

11:33 / 25.07.04

Neil Gaiman's a very sensitive writer, as evidenced by his luxurious, long black hair.

Haus of Mystery

15:30 / 25.07.04

And the dark glasses worn inside - what mysteries lie beneath?

The Natural Way

18:34 / 25.07.04

The mysteries of...The Endless. It's amazing, none of them appear even remotely arbitrary or have names beginning with 'D'.

Nothing could be that deep.

02:42 / 26.07.04

I'm not sure if it's a mystery any more, but he's had that Kate Bush, y'know. Allegedly.

Or someone like that anyway.

07:11 / 26.07.04

LIES! Kate is keeping herself pure for ME!

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

08:54 / 26.07.04

Are you actually ME, Morgue? Cos if not, you're WRONG and I'll FIGHT YOU.

Ahem.

Barefoot Gen upset me a fair bit... I'm surprised nobody's said Jimmy Corrigan yet. Not disturbing, not even a depressing read overall, but parts of that are among the most moving things I've seen in any medium.

And Seaguy #2 makes me cry every time. CURSE that George whatsisface.

Keith, like a scientist

12:47 / 26.07.04

jeez, you people love to hate gaiman.

i've gotta agree, though, that The Kindly Ones is still of one my favorite storylines in comics. it is very emotional, but only to people that have read the entire series, I think. sandman is one of the those comics that builds emotion and attachment...any storyline taken out of context just seems overly complicated and silly.

V for Vendetta, however....yeah, it's probably the best comic I've ever read. The most cohesive narrative of Moore's, certainly. As for emotional impact...I can't say it effected me as much as The Kindly Ones.

I was left a little breathless after From Hell, though.

13:21 / 26.07.04

Oh nice bit of Jung sync there For Jimmy Corigan . Just finished reading it Sunday. It is very emotional , but i also found myself just thinking , my god what a muppet , wouldnt somebody just help this guy instead of crawling up into your own problems !! I also got the impression he worked in IT but i may have just been projecting at that point. (Just tell yourself you have more hair and his American theres no similarity YOU HAVE A PORPOISE !!!)

The Natural Way

14:38 / 26.07.04

I don't understand a great deal of yr post.

Who are you, anyway?

Corrigan is amazing. Fucking harrowing. The 5D cross-sections of the objects/events that litter its pages are incredible. The meaning! The meaning!

Oh, I should probably add - I think V's pretty incredible too. Sooo British it hurts.

I keep on wondering if Flux has ever read V or From Hell.

Flux?

14:41 / 26.07.04

well, they've both got magic and politics in them and they aren't by daniel clowes or scott lobdell - why would the guardian's favourite record-blogger have read them?

15:10 / 26.07.04

Thats fine , i dont understand it either . So for a quick reqrite.

Yes Jimmy corrigan , was emotional, its content seeped from teh page.

However by the time i was 3/4 way through i wanted the silly little person or at least one of his relatives to slap him or just talk to him in a non condesending manner.

The last part was a poor attempt at humor with myself as the "jib" for sarcastic/reflective agnst caused by my perception of similarites between jimmy and myself.

And who cares who i am , my time has gone , now just a stranger in a strange land.

The Natural Way

15:15 / 26.07.04

I'll jib teh reqrite you in a minute, if you don't watch it sonny!

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