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A quote

 
  

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Skeleton Camera
11:47 / 17.07.04
Not to mention that we must remember this is the man behind "Kill Your Boyfriend" and "The Invisibles" (our baby). Iconoclasm may well run in his bloodstream. Which does not make any the better, nor worse. But it serves a purpose.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
06:08 / 19.07.04
You know what the abyss is? When you're sitting at a table with a bunch of people who are talking as if you're not there, when you have such a failure to connect that you just have to sit there smiling and nodding. That's the abyss and silence is both its agony and the key of extrication.

And speaking of such matters, guess where I am? In the fucking DESERT (in Jaisalmer, India), about to take a fucking CAMEL SAFARI! (And for added points, there are peacocks everywhere!) A fitting end to a fitting year. ::wELCOME tO hELL, eNJOY yOUR sTAAAAAY::
 
 
Skeleton Camera
10:55 / 19.07.04
That's about the best definition of the Abyss I've e'er read. And Choronzon is that voice in your head saying they're ignoring you because of what you said two minutes ago...just like last time...why don't you just leave...

Oh, and as for the desert, are you a Tibetan Shaman yet?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:56 / 19.07.04
I don't know if he's a Tibetan shaman, but I'd be very dissapointed if he hasn't acquired a small monkey familiar wearing a fez, and even more dissapointed if he isn't wearing a tuxedo and pith helmet, as promised, for the duration of his journey.

Brilliant definition of The Abyss.

I think its an integral aspect of our experience of the world. In terms of the Tree of Life, it's the broken Sephiroth, the one that's somehow got a bit fucked up, so that the Supernals (Kether, Chokmah, Binah) are not properly connected to the Sephiroth below the Abyss. Quite literally a fall from grace. The Gnostic idea of God descending into matter and getting stuck there. The Biblical fall from Eden. Our personal "Abyss-like" events that we experience fairly regularly in our lives from time to time, are the way in which our consciousness processes this diconnection from the source.

Those "Abyss" experiences are just our means of traversing this broken gulf or damaged link in our reality. If Daath was a proper functioning Sephiroth then we might conceivably exist in a perpetual Eden-like state of grace, directly plugged into the pure emanations coming down out of Kether.

But that's not what it's like. Taking up the speculative larval reality metaphor for a moment, the existance of a broken Sephiroth might be necessary in order for a reality such as ours to grow to full maturity. A bit like cutting the umbilical chord so the baby can strike out on its own. Or on the other hand, it could all be some terrible mistake! Our reality could just have gotten a bit fucked up on delivery, and we're stuck in this situation because of some huge Kafka-esque adminsitration error.

Either way, it doesn't make a great deal of difference. The only means of negotiating the gap between our conception of reality and the Supernals (and by extention, the ultimate Divine Source, or God) is via the broken Sephiroth Daath. Which means integrating and processing this Abyss-type material within our lives as it arises. That's why crossing the Abyss is often described as an initiatory experience, and why successful crossings often result in magicians upping their game. Because that's what's happening. You're bridging the unpleasant gap that seperates you from The Supernals. It's not a linear process. And the diagramatic form of the Tree of Life tends to be a bit misleading in that sense. You have to cross the Abyss constantly, again and again through the course of a life, but each time you accomplish this you create a bit more of an access path to the Source. You build another thread by which the Divine light of Kether can rush into your reality more fluidly and effectively, without having to circumnavigate a buggered Sephiroth that reduces it to a trickle.

In this sense, the 'Great Work' might be considered a process of repairing the damaged part of the Tree and opening a makeshift channel through the Abyss that functions as a link to Kether. Astral toilet roll and phantom sticky-back plastic. Please mind the gap. If we accept the notion that our reality is a single organism, then this process is being played out on a massive scale within the lives of everyone and everything that exists or has ever existed. It also implies that repairing the damaged link and getting our reality properly connected up to the higher Sephiroth is vitally important to the continued health of our reality, and the various terrible problems in our world are at some level a symptom of this broken reality that needs fixing. Horrors from the Abyss.

There are various technologies that have been developed to fix that gap, ranging from direct methods such as the degree system of the A.'.A.'., to technologies developed by the magicians and shamans of cultures throughout the world. Who are effectively the pioneers of Abyss-crossing. This is important, but its just the far edge of things, the guys out on the sharp end. Ultimately, everyone is engaged in a process of negotiating the Abyss within their lives. Everyone wants to get connected to the source. Everyone at some level remembers what Eden was like and wants to get back. When you first take really good E, you leap the Abyss and you're there - where every soul is beautiful and the music sounds like the music of the spheres.

To my mind, the role of the Shaman or Doc is about helping those around you traverse the Abyss, in whatever small ways you can. Which can be as formal or informal as is necessary in a given situation. If you can do a bit of magic to help someone find a job when they desperately need one, at some level you are assisting their passage through a fragment of the Abyss. Even if you're not actually a magician at all, thinking in these general terms and functioning in this way within your life and in your interactions with other people is contributing to this speculative healing process of the damaged Sephiroth. And if there's any aspect of truth behind any of this, it really needs to be more than a handful of dodgy geezer in bedsits facilitating this process.

Hope some of that made sense.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:04 / 19.07.04
I should quantify some of that by saying it's just my own speculative "versioning" on western quabala.
 
 
JohnnyDark
14:10 / 19.07.04
By the way, when GM talks about having finished Pop Mag!c, is he referring to the version on his site - which only seems to have 2 chapters done - or has it been/is it going to be published? Anyone know..?
 
 
FinderWolf
15:13 / 19.07.04
I think GM means the Pop Mag!c he's writing to be published in book form, soon to come. (soon = who knows?)
 
 
Tamayyurt
15:20 / 19.07.04
Oh, I know! soon = long fucking time from now!
 
 
Charlie's Horse
23:32 / 19.07.04
Oh, I know! soon = long fucking time from now!

No joke. If anyone else is pining away like I, you could always pick up the Disinformation Company's Book o' Lies - the first chapter gives parts one through three of Pop Mag!c, which might help with the stinging slap GM's eternal 'part three due shortly' sign on the web site. To me, it's one of the best chapters in the whole book.

Gypsy Lantern and Boy in a Suitcase - thank you both for making Qabalism much more relevant to my everyday waking/dreaming life. Fiery, illuminating stuff. Now, if these words get spread around, the meme 'retreating to Qabalistic fantasy worlds' may well become irrelevant.

Oh, and Boy in a Suitcase - have a great fucking trip! If any of the pack animals die, I'd advise you cut off a square of the hide, cure it, and mail it back as the strangest postcard ever.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
01:14 / 20.07.04
No problem, Whatever. No problem whatsoever.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
04:34 / 20.07.04
Coming back to GM's interview again, isn't it a bit ironic that in Tibet itself, ever since the Chinese invasion in '59, the Dzogchen tradition is in danger of disappearing? (according to Dzogchen Lineage homepage). And of course good old colonialism wiped out an estimated 90% of the Aboriginal people during the nineteenth century, and in some parts of Australia cattle still have more movement rights than Aborigines.
 
 
penitentvandal
09:46 / 20.07.04
Please mind the gap.

Y'know, for some reason, these four words strike me as being the most meaningful thing I've ever read about the relationship of Da'ath/the Abyss to the rest of the cabala/reality. But I can't quite explain why...how irritating!
 
 
the cat's iao
01:34 / 21.07.04
If I may...

Your post was very thought provoking indeed Gypsy Lantern! I find myself thinking of the divine as infinite, which is, of course, a human conception of the divine, but like other conceptions, it seems to capture something of the divine. Anyway, when you talk about making paths or connections to the divine through the broken sephirah, I find that to be a decent description of the process of "crossing the abyss." Indeed, nothing bothers me more than the smug individual who says, "I broke through Chapel Perilous back when...(fill in whatever description you'd like)"! YES IT IS AN ONGOING PROCESS! Sorry, it got away fom me a bit there...

Anyway, yes the infinite--that's where I was going! Each crossing is, it seems to me, a singular event, and in this sense, no matter how many times we make the crossing succesfully, we still have a very small number or magnitude of crossings. I guess I am saying that, in one way of seeing things, any number of successes are going to be minute compared to the inifinity of the divine's light! So on this line of thought, I find myself coming around to the idea that it's not merely making repeated crossings again and again in this finite material realm, but also opening up one's being to a larger sense of being. It's like learning to count to inifinity not by ones or tens or thousands, but by orders of the infinite; that is, by opening up to the infinite that is one's being the path is not only reinforced, but "unfolded" to ever greater depth.

If that makes any sort of sense.
 
 
LVX23
06:36 / 21.07.04
GM:
'Life' plus 'significance' = magic."

So why does it matter what path we take to get there? As long as it works, right? Wasn't this the orignal impulse behind Chaos Magick?

Sure everyone can do magick. But some try a lot harder than others. Some acknowledge that the core intent of their life is magickal. One notion of the Oath of the Abyss is that when Life shows you just how dark it can be, you willingly choose to continue striving for the Light. This can occur repeatedly throughout life but the truly defining passages are linked in a singular moment outside of time, like different film strips projecting on the same spot - the interference pattern is the individual, the light is the whole. (Fanny's experience with Mictlantecuhtli in the Sheman trilogy illustrates this idea.)

I think Grant is being a bit utopian here. He understandably wants everyone to participate in a magickal universe, we all hold hands and step into the eschaton. But the reality may simply be that maladaptive behaviors will be purged by Nature. One may find great personal magick in a birthday card for a child, but does it make them a magickal person if they act like complete shallow drones 90% of the time?

Our Fall is the process of drawing magick back into the Kingdom. Duality = Difference, distinction, definition. Like all the King's horses and all the King's men, we must put the egg back together and make it whole again. To get Thelemic (which is totally NOT the point of this original thread but I love it when threads wander into unintended territory), the Great Work draws the hexagram down into the pentagram, uniting the macrocosm and the microcosm to overcome duality. The Abyss is the way the Absolute can step into Creation and witness itself. Separated for Love's sake and the bliss of union, the spark of unity we encounter in deep ritual or easy conversation, watching a sunset and holding an infant. Seeing that things are more alike than different, that moments can exist outside of time, eternal and Now. In truth, magick really is available to everyone at everytime. But you usually have to look for it.

You have to cross the Abyss constantly, again and again through the course of a life, but each time you accomplish this you create a bit more of an access path to the Source. You build another thread by which the Divine light of Kether can rush into your reality more fluidly and effectively, without having to circumnavigate a buggered Sephiroth that reduces it to a trickle.

Gypsy, you fuckin' rock.

BiaS, I am vicariously living through you, cutting back the green snakes of envy growing from my scalp. If you accidentally fall into a snow cave and get snared by a Wompa, you can use your shamen powers to kill it and cut it open. The warm innards provide a fine place to weather the storm, and can also be used for divination.
 
 
SteppersFan
13:54 / 21.07.04
There's a broken sephiroth on the tree of life?

Blimey. I know nuffink about cabbalah. Too many long words.

Makes sense though.

'Ere Gypsy, why don't you write a book?

Fuck, if you just collected together your posts from Barbelith you'd have a fair few chapters on the go...
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:43 / 21.07.04
There's a broken sephiroth on the tree of life?

Aye, I knocked it off the mantlepiece when I came in drunk the other night. Tried to superglue the bits back together and put back where it was in the hope nobody would notice, but those jewish mystic guys don't miss a trick.

'Ere Gypsy, why don't you write a book? Fuck, if you just collected together your posts from Barbelith you'd have a fair few chapters on the go...

Cheers for the vote of confidence. In the process of writing two books as it happens. Making reasonable progress all things considered. Also, I'm doing my talk on hoodoo & folk magic again on August 4th at Steve Wilson's event that he runs. Will post up something about it nearer the time.
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:45 / 21.07.04
the abyss is the throat in my understanding
the abyss is language
that process of thought we often mistake for reality
our own creations mistaken for keter
the creative nexus point.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
03:34 / 22.07.04
This number has been disconnected. Please hang up and try again. This number has been disconnected. Please hang up and try again. This number...
 
 
Joetheneophyte
22:14 / 22.07.04
y'know I had a weird experience the other night. I had been drinking and was very tired but to get myself to nod off to sleep....I read that very Pop Magic bit in the Book of Lies


I have read it before .....but for the life of me, I couldn't find part three.....being away from my computer, I couldn't check where the computer part ended.....and I knoew I had read it before but as I looked at the chapters

I just couldn't find PART 3


Also on the net, he I believe mentions about going to Rwanda....yet to my tired / drunk eyes....it was strange and bizarre to read he wanted "to be an actor"

Either morrison is fugging with my head

My drink addled brain is giving up on me (most likely scenraio)

a mixture of the two


Weird
 
 
---
12:10 / 25.07.04
Hope some of that made sense.

Yeah it did! And it's been going around in my head for the last few days. It's changed the way i percieve it aswell. Thanks Gypsy, that was brilliant.
 
  

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