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Underground > Comic Books >

New York Times Magazine Article About Comics

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Yotsuba & Benjamin!

19:44 / 19.07.04

The more that I think about, though, I really think that the books will at least get exposure if they're packaged differently, even if they may or may not be the creators' best works. The Book Review slags books all the time, but imagine if The Filth at least got a review, even if it was a bad one. "A muddled pretentious mess. Certainly not Morrison or Weston's best work." Recognition doesn't always need to be praise.

When Road To Perdition came out, they released the original comic in the same format as they would have released a novelization of the movie. They didn't have to mark it as a graphic novel at all (and I'm not sure that they even did). Whether it was classified as such or not, it was on the same table at Barnes And Noble as the rest of the film books. If The Filth was packaged like a regular book and released as a regular book, it would get treated as such and whether or not it was a suitable introduction to the medium would be irrelevant. I could go to the bookstore and pick up Finnegan's Wake just as easily as I could The Rule Of Four.

Am I completely bananas in thinking that the answer to this problem is so simple?

Matthew Fluxington

19:47 / 19.07.04

The key is that his run is a complete novel, front to back, and I think that's the most important, and most appealing characteristic.

Except that it's not complete - the story is dependent upon more than thirty years of continuity. It may not be essential to understanding the story, but there are all kinds of references and themes throughout the work which act off of this prior knowledge. Much of the text is very meta, and especially at the end, it's very much an X-Men story about X-Men stories. How is this going to have its full impact without having knowledge of the earlier text, and the understanding that things will likely go back to old status quo immediately afterwards? How is Planet X meaningful without the context of every other Magneto story, or the Phoenix saga?

Meta superhero comics are great, I love 'em, we all love them here, but they are definitely not the kind of thing that you want to hand to people who don't read comics at all.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

19:51 / 19.07.04

True. But I still think there's enough there that it could be very accessible even if there's bits and pieces some people might not get. The most emotionally resonant scene, in my mind, is when Beak and Angel are caught by the U-Men, and that scene is dependent exclusively on the rest of Grant's work, and nothing else.

Again, if it looks like a normal book on the outside, people are used to missing stuff now and again in a book they're reading.

Yes, indeed. I am convinced that I have found the answer at last.

Matthew Fluxington

20:09 / 19.07.04

Though I agree that product design is of great importance, consistency of interior design, writing craft, and subject matter are just as important, if not far more crucial.

Comics are at the lowest rung on the cultural ladder. They have to be better than okay to make people notice them. Mediocrity may go over well in more popular mediums, but it's a major detriment to an artform which has to fight so much harder just to earn some respect, and even harder than that to get shelfspace in normal bookstores. The whole "we can do flawed genre fiction just as well as tv and shitty movies!" approach is not very wise, since most everyone would rather not work so hard and pay a lot of money to get the same level of quality that they get for free from a passive medium like television. If this is not made clear by the enormous number of people willing to see Spider-Man as a movie and those who are still buying Spider-Man comics, I'm not sure what will prove it to you.

There is definitely a market to be tapped with the literary book audience. With gaining acceptance into those circles, a good number of comics which are already geared to that demographic can thrive and encourage more publishers to fund the creation of new books. Many artists can potentially live off of book advances, rather than putting out individual issues in the hope of some small profit.

This article isn't about reaching everyone who might want to read any comic at all. It's about boosting something which is already happening organically, ie the growing acceptance of a certain type of comic book.

The Natural Way

20:16 / 19.07.04

Whilst I agree with a large amount of what you say, Flux, it doesn't change the fact that, from the snippets posted here at any rate, that article sucked.

lyricism

KILL!

Matthew Fluxington

20:21 / 19.07.04

Yeah, the article did suck, in terms of the actual writing and some of the ideas put forth.

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:35 / 19.07.04

Maybe Kill Yr Boyfriend. That's the most mainstream non-superhero story Morrison's ever done.

It's also the best work of his career.

Absolutely, and it's one that is culturally resonant - more so if you are British, but there are all sorts of situations in it that make perfect sense to a reader who is unfamiliar with the identity of Talia's dad. Being lonely and frustrated in a shitty town, wanting to have had sex even if you are dreading the idea of having sex, breaking up with your girlfriend at the worst possible moment ... the bus stuff is a bit wanky, but that's just art student drivel, and Dave Eggers get forgiven as much.

Whereas I just don't buy the idea of getting people to pay upward of $100 to find themselves asking "who is Darkstar? And why has Wolverine apparently shat himself in mid-air?". It's a great comic, but for an introduction to superheroes something intelligent, relatable and of a piece would be better - criminey, maybe The Enigma or similar.

Having said which, I'm a big honking geek with a decent salary and I hesitate to fork over $30 or so for "Blankets"... is that because I am *too* geeky for it?

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

22:47 / 19.07.04

(Thank you.)

13:11 / 20.07.04

Now I'd really like to know what some of you think should've been sold to the NYTM readership instead.

Not for *this* New York Times article perhaps, but the next one just like it. The collected edition of Paul Pope’s 100%, when it finally come out. Dude, I can see all sorts of crossover potential for that, it’s so very literary supplement-friendly. It’s been designed that way, really, Pope’s pretty clever about these things considering he’s such a good artist. 100% is beautiful to look at, it’s got basic ‘literary’ qualities like overlapping, interweaving multiple storylines, it’s a self-contained story, and sets up its own visual language which doesn’t entirely rely on a lifetime of reading comics to appreciate. It’s imaginative and weird without making you cringe with embarrassment. It’s got drawings of people making the sex, so it’s definitely for grown-ups; but the lights are off, so it’s not for adolescents. And when it’s all together, it’s *huge*, it’s a big read, it's worth the money. Just like a novel. And it’s emotional, man, it’s sweet, and moving in all the ways that superheroes usually aren’t. Plus, Pope’s not shy about promoting himself, and is always, always ready to give good interview about why Comics Are Literature. And art. And cool.

Tick, tick, tick. And it really is bloody great, for that matter. Even DC can’t cock this one up. 100% really does deserve a more mainstream readership, there’s more than enough there on the page for normal people to enjoy. Pope knows it, the thing is totally intended to be printed in one big lump, it’s built to sit on a coffee table. When the collected edition does get released I’ll probably be buying copies as presents.

Matthew Fluxington

14:40 / 20.07.04

I agree about Paul Pope and 100%.

The Natural Way

16:13 / 20.07.04

I really like Pope (100% and THB are great), but his dialogue's a little clunky and unnecessary sometimes and the art, whilst amazing, could confuse the eye..... I mean, let's face it, while the vast majority of people turned on to reading comics by reading that article (if such a beast exists) would probably assume some kind of innate superiority to the medium, that it's somehow beneath them, we all know that just isn't true. It's really easy to alienate a new reader. They don't understand the comics page yet. You have to go slow. Give them something pretty straightforward.

I think it's fair to say that I've converted quite a few people (people who now spend their hard earned money - yes, MONEY! - on funnybooks) and it was always with something fairly easy to *read*: Ghost World, Blankets, Stray Bullets - that kind of thing.

16:13 / 20.07.04

Some more, er, pulp for yr various fires:

I guess no one in this thread reads Sunday NYTimes Book Review.
(registration required; there are plenty of login names/p-words out there.)

(In case anyone cares, I have no opinion on all of this. I'm merely an interested observer of this discussion.)

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