Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Conversation >

Petals Around the Rose

Page: 1 2(3)

22:32 / 14.07.04

Okay, so I passed the game along to some other people and eventually somebody comes back and tells me they used to play this exact game in Boy Scouts. Except they mixed little icey looking chunks of glass in with the dice and called it "Polar Bears Round the Icebergs".

I think that makes it even funnier.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

23:22 / 14.07.04

Second roll. But still keep coming up with wrong answers even though I know how it works now, just due to general spackiness.

08:35 / 15.07.04

I'm going to have to cheat soon. I can't figure it out, and it's not funny anymore.

09:41 / 15.07.04

See what I mean? these things can get nasty. They make the last to get it REALLY frustrated.
Fun for a while, then someone's eye gets taken out.

12:24 / 15.07.04

how can you tell, in one?

Well, you can't. It just struck me as the obvious (and only) inital hypothesis you could make, and then I made my first roll to check it.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:26 / 15.07.04

After the first roll (on which I was wrong for a very simple and stupid reason which had me kicking myself seconds later) it seemed like the only option.

16:14 / 15.07.04

I'm interested and amazed that people can't get it. It reminds me of another game involving a matchbox that I just couldn't fucking understand but then it was at a party and I was very very drunk at the time not to mention probably stoned as well.

16:49 / 15.07.04

A good rule for other games of this type is always watch the hands of the people asking the questions doesn't apply to this one, but remember it and it will save you much grief.

Cloned Christ on a HoverDonkey

21:06 / 15.07.04

Just noticed this post - got pissed off with it after about 10 rolls, left the site, came back 10 minutes later and got it instantly.

Can see how this could prove very frustrating for someone who tries too hard to solve it.

21:39 / 15.07.04

A good rule for other games of this type is always watch the hands of the people asking the questions doesn't apply to this one, but remember it and it will save you much grief.

Yes. I recall that that game was horribly frustrating, too.

08:32 / 16.07.04

I have to do work today and couldn't bear the thought of being pre-occupied another whole day so got someone to tell me. Sorry. I know it's cheating, and I feel bad about it, but jeez - fucked me off!.

Frankly, I'm a little disappointed, as Petals around the Rose I think is misleading.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

08:41 / 16.07.04

Misleading? Are you kidding?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

08:46 / 16.07.04

Sorry. I think any further things I want to say require a spoiler warning, so here goes...

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

I'm really not a maths person. Even without the clue that "the name is significant", I'd have been thinking along the lines of the name, rather than anything mathematical.

"Petals" seemed the obvious one. After the first roll, when I was wrong, I realised I'd forgotten the other important noun in the title- what is the "rose"? Oh RIGHT!

As it says: The game can be used as an example of how different people look at the world differently, and how these different ways of looking can yield different answers. In "Petals Around the Rose" there is always one correct answer. The problem is how we define the problem.

(The slightly mathsy part of my brain wonders why all the spare petals, and for that matter, the occasional rose, are allowed to go to waste, though. But I generally tell that bit to fuck off).

08:48 / 16.07.04

I solved this like I do my homework—by sending it down to the elves. That is, work on it really hard consciously for about 20 minutes, trying different hypotheses and drawing a few examples and their values, then forgetting about it entirely for several hours, during which time the elves work on a solution. So when I came back to it, it came right to me.

My only objection is that 'obvious' does not mean 'the first thing you think of.' Knowing that the solution was 'obvious' just meant that I had to try a whole slew of hypotheses that could be considered obvious from some point of view—for example, knowing 'the name is significant' kind of helps but there are lots of different ways to interpret each word in the name. It's just 'obvious' in that the rule is simple to state once you know it; that does not equate to 'glaring.'

08:59 / 16.07.04

** * * MORE SPOILERS * * **

Tommy, that's quite right. I didn't think the solution was as obviously as people had made me believe it was.

I was trying loads of more "obvious" solutions than that one, I just didn't hit on that one.

The reason I think it's a bit misleading Stoatie is that the rose of the title is singular.

I'm probably just bitter.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:09 / 16.07.04

S

P

O

I

L

A

G

E

Well, I kind of figured that different roses had different petals... again, not thinking in maths terms, I guess. I dunno...

Actually, thinking about it, I get what you mean with the plurals and all that. Had that occurred to me, I'd probably have been all confused again, and wouldn't have got it at all.

This really is a fascinating thread. I love the idea of Bill Gates being stuck for ages. I love the idea that the problem itself isn't the point, but how you try to interpret it IS. This is ace.

09:18 / 16.07.04

Admittedly, it did hold my attention for ages!

11:19 / 16.07.04

got it first time with my first theory.
maybe that means im retarded.

11:32 / 16.07.04

SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS

the grammar didnt throw me...
maybe because i dont really use it consistently myself?

what else could be around anything on a dice, other than the spots being around another spot?
i thought around was the more important word in the title, but i agree on rose reminding one that not all petals count.

11:54 / 16.07.04

This had me totaly confounded until I started plugging in random numbers.
That was fun for a bit, then I actually THOUGHT about the problem and got it.

13:23 / 16.07.04

*** YET MORE SPOILAGE ***

It's just 'obvious' in that the rule is simple to state once you know it; that does not equate to 'glaring.'

When you look at the puzzle figuratively I think it is obvious, save for the possible confusion over pluralisation. As toksik says, what else could each element of the title refer to? Of course, if your head is in a mathsy mode then it's far from obvious because it's so natural to see a die as a unified object whose job is to stand in for a number rather than something to be analysed itself. That's why it's such a neat game (and also so infuriating) as the way you approach it is by far the overriding factor in determining your success.

16:06 / 16.07.04

Wow this petals around the rose is really creating a real fun thread. Three days ago I started trying to solve the cocksucker.

23:16 / 18.07.04

I got it before my first roll. Next up, learning to drive...

06:49 / 19.07.04

As toksik says, what else could each element of the title refer to? Of course, if your head is in a mathsy mode then it's far from obvious because it's so natural to see a die as a unified object whose job is to stand in for a number rather than something to be analysed itself.

Well, I'm a math major, so maybe I'm unqualified to argue with this statement. =) However, I tried to immediately discard mathsy stuff because I knew that wasn't part of the game, and looked at the dice not as numbers at first. For example, my earliest theory, since I'd seen that you could get 0 petals, was that there was a throw of a die that was considered a 'rose' (oops, that singular plural problem again) and you counted up the petals scattered on either side of it. I suppose that was discounting 'around' but neither was it an intensely numerical hypothesis.

I also think that the 'smart people take longer' is crap—I congratulate the quick-thinkers' pattern recognition skillz. (And if pattern recognition isn't math I don't know what is.)

Page: 1 2(3)