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Doctors' sexual orientation

 
  

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Joetheneophyte
07:45 / 26.07.04
I meant to add, that I haven't even been to that other post that Ganesh mentioned (haven't had time to be honest)

I am only guessing that I would be severly flamed for my beliefs about behaviour over there but I admit I might be pre-judging before perusing the actual thread. I was basing my assumption on the trouble my comments have caused on THIS thread, let alone a thread dealing with this specific issue and likely to attract people who might exhibit behaviour similar to what was being discussed

My comments were about my own experience and I do qualify the comments with the proviso that some people do act naturally , like this....but it is my belief that in a decent percentage of cases, it is cultivated and a performance

Ganesh , I am sincerely sorry for continuing non related topics AGAIN to your thread. I will not post again on this thread and will respond to any future comments addressed to me as Private Messages only . I was responsible for what you consider Thread Rot but felt it incumbent upon myself to answer points addressed to me over behaviour etc

my last two points have not really been about you in any way shape or form (with the exception of the specific point Our Lady and I were discussing)

Sorry again

Thanks

Joe
 
 
Joetheneophyte
08:35 / 26.07.04
The second paragraph above is waiting moderation as it reads very badly and does not convey what I intended

It was hurriedly written in work

sorry
 
 
Joetheneophyte
10:16 / 26.07.04
IT READS BETTER NOW

(To me anyway)


thanks moderators!
 
 
Nobody's girl
10:36 / 26.07.04
Not bothered by my doctors sexual orientation. But then I am bisexual. I'd like to think that if it ever arose in conversation my doctor would be able to tell that I'd be cool about it. Realistically though, I understand that it's not like you can look at someone and know for sure.

Having had a host of gynaecological problems recently I have found female doctors to be more sympathetic in general about my difficulties (chronic back pain and so forth), for fairly obvious reasons, and I now ask for a female doctor if I need to discuss gynae stuff.
I had a very unpleasant experience last year when my gynaecologist and his student attempted a colposcopy under local anesthetic- two of the most insensitive doctors I've ever met, both male, so I expect that coloured my opinion a little.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:00 / 26.07.04
I am only guessing that I would be severly flamed for my beliefs about behaviour over there but I admit I might be pre-judging before perusing the actual thread. I was basing my assumption on the trouble my comments have caused on THIS thread, let alone a thread dealing with this specific issue and likely to attract people who might exhibit behaviour similar to what was being discussed.

I really hope you wouldn't be flamed, Joe. People might disagree with you and want to discuss the issue with you further, for example by asking you to explain your reasoning. That's what discussion forums are for, right? I don't see any "trouble" in this thread other than the fact we've gone slightly off topic, so I'm going to leave it there for now, and I hope you do choose to post in the relevant thread.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:09 / 26.07.04
I was basing my assumption on the trouble my comments have caused on THIS thread, let alone a thread dealing with this specific issue and likely to attract people who might exhibit behaviour similar to what was being discussed

The only "trouble" I can see is that you are taking the opportunity to make a series of claims in a thread where any response will be inevitably offtopic, while claiming that you dare not go to a thread where your statements would be relevant for fear that those screaming queens would scratch your eyes out. Having not bothered to look at that thread anyway. Ahem.

I would suggest that a Laboratory moderator copy and paste JtN's last five or so posts (excepting the last two, which we just delete) into the "Affectations" thread, then move to delete them here, along with this post and Flyboy's, stick up a "this is the end of the campness discussion" post and a link to the "Affectations" thread, then copy/paste/delete any further contributions.
 
 
Smoothly
12:52 / 26.07.04
In my limited contact with doctors, I don’t think I’ve ever so much as considered their sexuality. But I tend pretty deferent towards them and would think myself way out of line if I had anything to do with conversation turning to their sexuality/private life. I feel pretty sure that it's none of my business. I think I'd feel the same in a psychiatric context.

The gender preference cited in the introduction kinda surprised me too. At least I didn't think it could be so comfortably generalised. I know several women who state a preference for a *man* to carry out gynecological examinations, on the grounds that they tend to be more sensitive and gentle (less brusque, more inclined to warm cold instruments, less over-familiar, I gather. I suppose a certain amount of awkwardness could be a benefit here), and I thought that this was possibly common. But I see that at least Nobody's girl has very different experiences and preferences, and perhaps those are waaay more typical. Nevertheless, I'm not sure that I'd prefer a male doctor, even for an intimate examination. Can I assume that the issue here is non-attraction (women preferring a female or, failing that, a gay man)? Or is it about a perceived expertise? If it's the former, I'm not quite clear on why that's seen as preferable. In fact, as a rule, I prefer being undressed with someone who *does* find me attractive.

If it's legitimate to request a doctor of a particular sex, would a request that they be gay/straight be similarly respected?
 
 
Joetheneophyte
13:18 / 26.07.04
Tannce

By all means , if that makes you happy, do that

All I was trying to say was that I have stated my opinion, which, whether you agree with it or not is mine. I have apologised to Ganesh for where I KNOW I have overstepped the mark....whether he chooses to accept my apology is entirely beyond my control.


I speak my mind....arrogantly, stupidly and admittedly OFTEN beyond my area of expertise. I never intentionally set out to offend anybody (well that is not entirely true, most recently, I did try to get a rise out of somebody on these very boards but whilst inappropriate it was for comedic affect, not malicious......not trying to excuse my behaviour but I felt aggrieved and acted accordingly......

IN HINDSIGHT I was totally in the wrong on that occasion)



If anybody wants to continue debate with me over 'camp' behaviour or whatever .... by all means PM me and I will do my utmost to explain where and how I formulated my position/opinion.

I do think it is unfair and redundent to keep pointing out things that I have already admitted


I freely admitted that my opinions are based on my EXPERIENCE, limited as it is ...flawed or otherwise........

FOR EXAMPLE:

I had happily admitted that I hadn't been to the other thread AND given my reasons for not doing so, yet you choose to point out something I have already admitted(?)


....it is almost as if you are trying to paint a worse picture of me than I present of myself

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me but at least do me the honour of respecting that I have admitted my mistakes on more than one occassion. Whilst I might hold the more extremist and ultimately warped views in comparison to the ultra PC wing on here, utilising political correctness with such vigour and in such a way, strikes me as at least as fascist (if not in content but in method) as anything I have done or stated.


By all means, post my comments on the other thread. If anybody wishes to converse in a civil manner, I will PM them .....but from the evidence to date, whilst I may be totally unfounded, it would seem from the evidence of this thread, that I might or am likely to be misrepresented via either

a: misunderstanding (totally understandable due to my my lack of articulate language)

or

b: some Ultra PC fascism that only allows non dissenting PC opinions


Flyboy, thankyou for being so civil......you may totally disagree with me....as is your right.......... but at least you didn't misquote or twist my words

Ganesh,sorry again


if anybody, wishes to continue this, please PM me as I am bored with the whole thing being in public forum and open to what is either misunderstanding or misrepresentation

I may contribute to that other thread, if and when i get time to read through all the responses (difficult at present as very limited on the old PC time, for personal reasons)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:11 / 26.07.04
From the FAQ:

2) If you say something which is or which sounds homophobic, racist, sexist, or any number of other "-ists", you will more than likely be flamed. From there, it is very easy to slide into trolling. If you then complain of "Political Correctness gone mad" or "the PC brigade", you will win the enduring love of the other half-dozen people who do that, and everyone else will giggle.

3) Don't be surprised if people ask you to support whatever contention you have just made with evidence, and don't try to conceal any absence thereof with obfuscation or insult; it is unlikely to work.

4) Threadrot, outside the Conversation and at times within the Conversation, is frequently looked upon askance. (See WhatIsThreadRot?)
 
 
Ganesh
17:09 / 26.07.04
I would be extremely happy if the relevant bits of this thread could be excised and removed to the 'Affectations' thread (at present, it's the persistent meta-off-topicness that's irritating me most of all). Thanks in advance.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
17:57 / 26.07.04
Anyyywaaayy.

Interesting question. Think that alot of what comes out of that extract is about the way patients position and imagine doctors and vice versa.

In a transaction between doctor and patient there are all sorts of assumptions/power relations going on.

Not only in the Doctor>>>patient, direction either.

Like ST, I've often(in the past, mainly) felt deferent in encounters with doctors, and also often found it hard to visualise them as human beings. (rather like the childish thing where you presume yr teachers are packed away in boxes when not in school. and there you go, I'm already talking in terms of a Child/Adult relations)

It'd seem impertinent to want to know about their sexual orientation. As with many* professions, it'd seem irrelevant, but with an added dash of being under authority.

However there are areas in which a notion(however spurious this might be) of a 'shared' space of sexuality would and has been something I've sought, or would like to have had access to.

This mainly in relation to sexual health issues, where I've felt a 'queer' practioner would be more on my wavelength, and occasionally in mental health scenarios.

Having said that, with mental health, especially, it's been much more important to me to have a *good*/useful doctor. (and here I'm talking GPs, as I've had very little contact with pyschiatric specialists, whether that be doctors/nurses/other CMHT profs)

Nesh, my hunch is that this is much more of an issue in psychiatry than in many other specialisms? Aside perhaps, from GPs, as these are the two main areas in which personality/the state of the doctor/patient *relationship* has the most effect on the efficacy of treatment?

Another question: do you think that the orientation question has specific ramifications for doctors, as opposed to nurses, assistants, other healthcare profs?

**************************

Hmm. on the other side of the fence, in my mental health 'work' I present as 'me' as far as possible. I don't neccessarily go into work festooned in rainbow bling but neither do I try to act 'straighter'. But then, I'm *not* a dyke, so may have male partners/'stories' to tell.

But, perhaps more significantly, am in an environment where it's policy to reveal as little as possible about ourselves, and can/will point to that policy if neccessary.

I think it's reasonably apparent that I'm queer**, and it's not been an issue in 3 years of work. But then, also we work in teams, and if someone doesn't want to talk to me, they'll have at least two other options.

Also, given the smallness of my town, when we've had queer users, we've often recognised each other, which is more problematic, in terms of boundaries/confidentiality. Again, on both sides.

Hmm. don't know if that's useful or not. Will have a think, and come back.


*on the other hand, there are several other areas that spring to mind, where I might actively seek queer professionals. Certain aspects of legal advice, for example.


** but on the other hand, maybe that's only if you know what yr looking for? I really don't know on this one.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
21:18 / 26.07.04
actually, duh me on the shrinks/gps point. It really hadn't occurred to me that physical examinations are the main site of tension. And as you say, you have plebs to do that kind of thing.

Wanted to bring this up:


Too often as a profession we attempt to create carbon moulds of a white hetereosexual middle class image passed down from the generations before.

As increasingly we see the proportion of women doctors rise and the growing numbers of ethnic minority doctors, there has been the begining of a discourse around diversity, yet it slow to progress

[...]

One of the challenges facing sexual orientation issues is that this is the 'invisible' strand of diversity.


This strikes me as raising two v.important points.

One: that 'doctor' has since time began equalled a set of tranparent assumptions: male, white, middle class, hetero etc. And that this is gradually changing, but that our cutlure/imaginations take a lot longer to catch up to this.

And two: that of the potentially-disturbing deviations from the 'norm', sexuality is distinctive. firstly, as the above correpsondent mentions, because it's 'invisible'. An asian doctor does not need to 'out' themsevles as non-white. Secondly, because sexuality is still percieved as crossing over into sexual behaviour by doctor towards patient.

(in a way, that I'd hope for example, being a non-white male doctor wouldn't these days carry a whiff of 'wants to fondle white women' but has done in the past.)
 
 
HCE
23:52 / 26.07.04
I'm a bit uncomfortable with male doctors I suspect are heterosexual, ever since one them took what I considered an inappropriate liberty with a piercing.
 
 
HCE
00:06 / 27.07.04
Threadrot: Dear Joe, please lay off the CAPS FOR EMPHASIS. They are not necessary.
 
 
Triplets
21:14 / 08.08.04
Well, the whole point is that sexuality is important [to the patient and physician] as a doctor is a physically invasive presence.

It depends on the patient and Ganesh has pretty much sussed it already: er on the side of caution, but if someone asks and seems okay with the idea, let them know honestly.
 
  

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