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Psychedelia/folk/post-rock crossovers – imminent new genre explosion suspected?

 
  

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rizla mission
11:40 / 06.07.04


Admittedly, The Wire did a thing last year about "New Weird America", but I didn't buy the issue, so I don't know what they said about it or who they included in it, but beyond that…. I don't know if this stuff's really been given a name yet, but I get the feeling that it's developing a bit enough following and a well defined enough aesthetic to cement itself as a record shop rack category in much the same way as, say, post-rock or underground hip-hop have in the recent past.

Basically:
I still haven't yet had a chance to hear a lot of this music, but over the past 18 months or so, reading websites and magazines, I've been seeing more and more references to, and reviews of, lots of weird bands whose thing seems to be fusing the experimental sounds and fantastical imagery produced by the weirder end of 60s/70s psychedelia with the more self-consciously arty and abstract world of contemporary avant/post-rock.

This appears to me to be a particularly rich field to explore, in that a lot of the more far-out elements pioneered by the hippy-era stuff were never quite fully explored at the time - obviously the new technology and mind-expanding ideals of the period allowed for some uniquely crazed records, but historically speaking they were always stuck between a rock and a hard place, on the one hand compromised by the prevailing ethos of '60s pop demanding recognisable tunes and record company approval, and on the other hand by the rising behemoth of prog and the tedious worship of musicianship for it's own sake.
But by taking the mysterious elements shining through the big mess of original psychedelia and applying them to the far more free-form and DIY ethos of the post-Thrill Jockey/Constellation world of avant garde rock, and the freedom to explore all this fascinating weirdness, often at great length, is surely too good to turn down. Folk music from the hippy-era - "acid-folk" I suppose, if that's not a ridiculous label to retrospectively apply to a bunch of music made decades ago - also seems to exert a huge influence on this new stuff.

I'm not writing this in order to try and lasso together a bunch of wholly disparate artists into some farcically non-existent 'movement', NME style, but simply because there are now a LOT of people doing this kind of music, and I find myself, say, going to Dusted and reading a review of some weird new record and thinking "oh yeah, it's one of THOSE bands, like… hang on, it doesn't really have a name yet, does it?".

Time to name names I guess:

Well it's not a new thing I guess... the likes of Bardo Pond have been at it for years, admittedly with one foot still in the realms of post-Sonic Youth noisy indie-rock, and the Acid Mothers Temple 3CD 'Family' compilation, comprising of AMT side-projects and bands they're friends with and stuff, presents a vast and beautiful selection of obscure psyche/folk/post/drone music made in Japan, France and America over the past decade or so.

The prolific Animal Collective seem to be the current figureheads for.. this kinda thing.. in America, but there are lots of others emerging too;
People who attended this year's All Tomorrow's Parties may have witnessed Fursaxa, OOIOO and the Vibra-Cathedral Orchestra doing their respective things, and to that list I think I can safely take a guess in adding the likes of Grails, Jewelled Antler Collective, Cerberus Shoal, Sun Burned Hand of Man, Black Sun Ensemble, Faun Fables, Mandible Chatter, Six Organs of Admittance and probably loads more that I’ve forgotten about or missed. (I don’t actually now very much at all about most of those bands, other than that I love their names and cover art and that I’d be fascinated to hear what they do.)

Perhaps more telling than the actual music though, this genre or whatever has a very definite aesthetic style and form of presentation - vinyl in hand-painted cardboard sleeves?, extravagant neo-psychedelic artwork?, little in the way of straightforward information?, tiny record labels who care not for any form of promotion or publicity? – this feature on Timelag records, and the website for this UK based record distro should perfectly exemplify what I'm getting at.

As I say, I'm largely an outsider to all this - I'm just interested really, and all this fits in quite nicely with the fanciful notion discussed briefly in some other thread a while ago that there’s a bit of a wider psychedelic revival going on in the festering swamp of pop-culture at the moment. So really my analysis could be completely wrong and I welcome anybody who wants to put me right by suggesting other precedents and trains of thought behind this stuff, other examples of it I may have missed, or anybody want to discuss it, comment on it, help define it etc…? Recommendations from anyone who’s listened to a lot of this stuff would also be welcome..
 
 
chucklehound
22:11 / 06.07.04
i'm really bad at keeping up with genre names and missed the wire article as well, but are we looking a split here between new weird america (charalambides, no neck blues band, tower recordings - artists who are looking at the more psychedelic side of folk) and weird americana/folk (devendra banhart, sufjan stevens, joanna newsom - artists who are more closely sticking to the folk/country/blues traditions)? or are these all being lumped into the same aesthetic these days?

as far as the acid-folk genre, i sort of felt that whole thing had crested a few years ago with the terrastock festivals. if you're looking for recommendations here, i'd suggest the above (charalambides probably being the most accessible for a bardo pond fan) as well as ghost, un, abundai, cul de sac (particularly the collaboration with john fahey).

personally, it's the latter group of weird americana/folk that's getting me excited these days (and, to my thinking, has a better claim towards the "new weird america" genre). some really interesting variations on folk/country/blues that straddle the divide between new/interesting and self-satisfied/overly-improv-laden (a line i think bardo pond, and even the acid mothers temple, crossed quite a while ago)
 
 
Locust No longer
23:13 / 06.07.04
Naming these kind of things always seems to be for the birds. I think that it makes what individual and original bands do a little less important and interesting as well. Music critics and hipsters may need it to validate what they listen to but I think it's all rather base and boring. Because groups involved with The Jewelled Antler Collective and Pelt and what not have all been doing great stuff for long enough without any ready made labels for people to latch onto. Now we have this vague "new weird America" which just seems ridiculous and meaningless.

I went to a festival about a year ago where much of this stuff came to a head where people liek Jack Rose, Fursaxa, etc. all played and it was amazing, because it all seemed pretty "new" to me until I realized it's been around for a long time, many of these people having their roots in the psych and avant garde of the sixties. It was all pretty rocking cuz nobody could really put a finger on it, bands like Burning Star Core and Fursaxa and Nmperign all interacting and all sounding completely different and wonderful (of course neither Nmperign or BSC probably are influenced in the same way). Now all this stuff is getting labeled and shit on with lousy genre shackles. Oh well.

As for what I would recommend, The Jeweled Antler Collective always releases some good stuff. I really like The Birdtree, the Sky Green Leopards, and The Ivy Tree. Thuja's okay but approaches the hippy dippy improv spectrum too quickly for me. Although if you dig that Wickerman-esque vibe you may like it. I hear that the Blithe Sons, also from the JAC, are good. Jack Rose is good for the Fahey type guitar instrumentals. I can't claim to have listened to a lot of it, however. If you want something pretty scary in a Black Metal folk type of way check out The Dead Raven Choir. It's basically one guy, an expatriot from Poland or somewhere who now lives in Texas, who recites poetry by Baudelaire, Rilke and others all behind an off kilter and dreary chamber folk. It's cool and strange and depressing all at once.

What I've heard from Six Organs of Admittance has been good but not something I would search out much. Eclipse Records and Aquarious records from the US has a lot of this stuff with far better descriptions and AQ has sound clips.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:35 / 06.07.04
For the Wicker Man vibe, check Current 93's stuff for most of the 90s. (Especially Michael Cashmore's C93 offshoot "Nature And Organisation", who covered THAT song from the WM, but with the divine Rose McDowall on vocals.)

Elsewise (yeah, I know it's not a real word, but I LIKE it...) Devendra Banhart would fit the topic heading fairly well.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
10:48 / 07.07.04
Ladeez n' Genl'men it's happening NOW!
We are living in what I can only describe as the best time for music I think I have ever experienced.

I work in record distribution so I get to hear this stuff all the time and over the last few weeks alone my head hs been assaulted and mind left spinning by a host of thunderous pagan noisemakers.

It's impossible to know where to start. New Comets on Fire album? Absolutely awe inspiring. The Sunburned cdr I picked up at their gig in Brighton the other week? One of the most beautiful and scary things I've ever heard.

The thing I find most inspiring is the fact that the majority of these bands are doing it for themselves, putting out their own cdrs, promoting their own gigs and just getting out there, one on one, with their audiences.

In the last few months I've broken up my band and started three new ones, started my own record label and started promoting gigs by all sorts of odd and interesting fellows.

I've jammed in the ruins of old castles, played a 30 minute improvisation on the solstice and am in regular email touch with all sorts of good, down to earth musicians all of whom feel the same burning urge to communicate their music and ideas without having to bow down to a shitty system of labels hiring and firing bands like their going out of fashion.

I don't think I'm overstating the case when I say that this is the nearest thing to pure rock n' roll rebellion I've ever encountered in my short life.

GET INVOLVED.
 
 
rizla mission
10:55 / 07.07.04
Now we have this vague "new weird America" which just seems ridiculous and meaningless.

The "New Weird America" label irks me too.. I mean, what's it supposed to imply? I'd say probably about 75% of my record collection old and new classifies as 'Weird' and 'American'.. it's just too general to mean anything really. Not to mention the fact that a lot of the artists in this weird drifting genre are European or Asian.

I would however take issue with your assertion that it's the evil hipsters forcing this stuff against its will into a constrictive genre - as I was saying above, I don't WANT this stuff filed in an easily understandable category, but in a sense the bands and record labels are doing it themselves - I'm seeing all these expensive import CDs on the shelves with wild names and artwork and subconsciously noting it as "oh yeah, one of THOSE things", plus as you say, a lot of these people play together, collaborate, have similar ideals, aesthetics... and for better or worse, I think that constitutes a cohesive musical movement, and if it's strong enough for there to be festivals and a fanbase based around it, I don't think giving it a name is necessarily going to kill it.

Personally, I'll be glad if it gathers a higher profile, cos it's a bunch of strange music that I've got a feeling I'd absolutely love, and if it starts to become popular then I might possibly get to HEAR SOME OF IT or SEE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE PLAY, rather than relying on hazy internet reports and CDs I can't afford to buy.

I'm not sure I trust that Devandra Banhart though.. he's too pretty by half and he's been in a suspicious number of magazines - he reminds me of that travel writer from that episode of Black Books who everybody falls in love with..
 
 
TeN
11:01 / 07.07.04
Honestly, I think we're moving less into a new genre of music and more into a genre-less space entirely. I see where your coming from, and you're right, this may be a new genre forming... but it's probably just a small one, not the general direction pop music is headed in. Take a look at artists like DJ Shadow, DJ Danger Mouse, Outkast, The Books, and you'll notice they have something in common: they all work in a genre-less limbo - showing almost complete disregard for categorization. THIS, I believe, is where music is headed.
 
 
Locust No longer
16:04 / 07.07.04
Now Rizla, you just took issue with my reticence for this stuff getting popular and then say you don't trust Banhart for being in too many magazines. Actually, I think DB is rather good, especially live. I know he tours around the UK once and a while with M. Gira. You should check him out. Of course, when you look into his influences like Vashti Bunyan and Karen Dalton you understand where he get's much of his style. I still think he's one of the true originals, however.

Also, I'm not really against these guys getting popular, I'm simply against a group of diverse musicians getting pigeonholed in any way. It matters little to me whether or not they start moving units and the jocks down the street start smoking pot and lamenting the demise of Sugar Ray to the No Neck Blues Band (well I might be a little uncomfortable with that actually). In fact, I, like you it would appear, only get taken aback when I see someone hyped ridiculously and it only makes it worse when they make a non-existant movement to throw them in. By the way, you can get most of this stuff you are curious about on Soulseek (although I'm sure you probably know this). What's your soulseek handle? Mine's metalpalm (stupid name I realize). Using soulseek is a good way for me to wade through all the hype and figure out what I actually want to spend my money on. You can also find some of those out of print tour-only cdrs if you're lucky. Hell, I'm downloading some Tower Recordings right now. And they seem to be better than alright. Neato.
 
 
rizla mission
17:08 / 07.07.04
My Soulseek name is thingonthedoorstep, although I'm unable to spend a great deal of time online in one go.

And I'm burning a CD of Fursaxa / Six Organs.. MP3s as I write.

I've spent most of the last few weeks tied up with mass doom metal downloading sessions though.

So much great music, so little time.. it's about time I got round making you the CD I promised months ago actually..
 
 
_pin
21:24 / 07.07.04
All of Devendra Banhart's songs are about two and a half minutes long. Yr 'post-rock' made me think you were looking for more loger-form acts. And while we're here, Jackie-O Motherfucker at the folk end, and Double Leopards at the psychedlia?

And, actually, Banhart? I can't take him seriously. I picked up Rejoycing in the Hands so I could say "I've never really gotten, in my gut, either folk music nor shamanism, but Banhart just kciked me in the nuts and ate out my power animal." But you know what? I can't. I don't think I'm ever going to forgive him. And you know why? He sings about beards, and then I think 'You're growing a beard? Well I have a secret beard, and you cannot see it, and it is full of whirlling knives. They whirl with death for you, Jesus Boy!' which is really distracting.

There seems to be a "weird folk" thing going on, where people ProTool the fuck out of folk traditions they're not really a part of (think Mum, think anticon), but outside of being 'odd', they're not really psychedelic.

I've actually not heard any of this stuff, bar the last two and Banhart, though I'm getting some stuff from that distro you linked to, which oddly I found myself a few days before this thread, because the guy seems so adorably cute. A teeny tiny distro for label-less CDRs! That's so cheap and small there's an extra £1 on PayPal orders! Hug that man!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:48 / 07.07.04
Actually, I think DB is rather good, especially live. I know he tours around the UK once and a while with M. Gira.

For the Gira thing- the only reason I ever checked him out was because he was on Young God records and an Angels of Light album. I'm glad I did.
 
 
+#'s, - names
00:36 / 08.07.04
Pearls Before Swine, anyone?
 
 
rizla mission
09:53 / 08.07.04
Wow, that sounds insane! I'd love to check that out at some point.

And while we're here, Jackie-O Motherfucker at the folk end, and Double Leopards at the psychedlia?

?

Not to be argumentative or anything, but to my ears Jackie-O Motherfucker don't sound like anything I'd recognise as folk. What they do sound like is one of the most excruciatingly pompous and self-indulgent groups I've ever had the misfortune to see perform. But then, seeing as how they're an improv group with regularly shifting membership, we're probably talking at cross-purposes here.

And I don't think Double Leopards are terribly psychedelic either.. they're more like dark urban horror movie shit imho.

I don't think I'm ever going to forgive him. And you know why? He sings about beards,

Well I was going to remain in complete indifference, but hey, now I'm SOLD. Rushing out to get his record right now... beards, wow.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
11:25 / 08.07.04
I'm in agreement about Jackie o', Riz, they do strain somewhat toward the Stockhausen 'Bleep, bong, clik' end of the market, but I haven't heard a great deal of 'em so I live to be suprised.

Fing is there's a lot more to this "scene" (and I agree, naming is murder) than a folk influence. Comets on fire are emphatically part of whats goin' on, right down to having whatsim' from Six organs as a floating member, but aside from a few fingerpicks here and there the folk element is not particularly overt.

What links all the bands is a distrust of mainstream marketing and distribution techniques and a desire to reach people on as close to a one-to-one basis as possible.

It's not, perhaps, enough to constitute a scene but it is enough to inspire and delight. And that's where we come in.

And incidentaly, it's inspiring how many women there are involved in this scene (sorry I'll try and stop using that word). Especially considering that every other alternative-type band I go and see these days are just four blokes with fringes.
 
 
_pin
20:47 / 08.07.04
My comments about those two are based wholly on The Wire, me having never heard either of them.

And I've tried, really I have, but I still can't take DB seriously. Not in the sense that he's not 4Real, not that I don't think he makes Real Music but that... you know... he keeps straying towards a jokier anti-folk end then he'll admit to (this is wholly that voice, and those fucking beard songs). Is still good though.
 
 
+#'s, - names
02:58 / 09.07.04
I guess anyone interested in Devendra Banhart, pretty much the "it" girl of the moment might want to see him doing his thing at the Spin Magazine office.
 
 
grant
04:09 / 09.07.04
Not being up on the Music Media, I haven't heard of any of these bands except Wickerman, and them only because of a scary, scary T-shirt my better half picked up at a thrift store.

From the description in this thread alone, then, what might these bands have in common with early Beck?
 
 
rizla mission
13:29 / 09.07.04
Well... early Beck has a lot more in common with the largely New York based Anti-folk scene which I'm also really, really fond of, and I have an inkling you would be too, grant. People such as Jeffrey Lewis, Kimya Dawson, Adam Green, Prewar Yardsale and (when they feel like it) Herman Dune - basically: acoustic songwriting utilising weirdo humour and a punk attitude. They all pay frequent homage to The Mountain Goats, which is a good reference point.

Definitely worthy of another thread to itself if anybody else is interested.

The stuff this thread is about is swaying far more toward the far-out psychedelic end of things.. more along the lines of druggy post-rock or REALLY tripped out folk.

I was pondering this new stuff last night actually, RE: how it relates to the '60s definition of psychedelic music, and my conclusion is that in the '60s most bands were limited to some extent by the fact that they were psychedelic ROCK.. no matter how far into the unknown they went, it was almost always within the framework of being a functional rock (or pop) band. On the other hand, bands (if they are 'bands' as such) such as Animal Collective, Jeweled Antler Collective, Acid Mothers Temple et al. seem to use the greater freedom afforded by a post-post-rock world (did I really just write 'post-post-rock world'?? YUCK!) to delve into something more resembling PURE psychedelia, with the rock element disappearing. Very few bands, apart maybe from some in the realms of krautrock, minimalist drone or just complete insanity, were actually willing to do this in the 60s/70s.
 
 
diz
15:18 / 09.07.04
Michael Cashmore's C93 offshoot "Nature And Organisation"

Nature and Organization actually predates Cashmore being involved with C93, so it's not really an offshoot.
 
 
+#'s, - names
15:59 / 09.07.04
Just read on Pitchfork. The beast has a name.
Freakfolk.
 
 
rizla mission
16:57 / 09.07.04
Well a lot of the stuff I'm talkin' 'bout isn't bloody folk, so fuck that shit..

And since when did you ever hear any folk music that WASN'T made by freaks of some description or other?
 
 
+#'s, - names
17:28 / 09.07.04
?
 
 
kaonashi
21:08 / 09.07.04
I remember someone somewhere calling this kind of thing
freefolk, which I kind of liked. I wouldn't mind being lumped in with the "freefolk" but thats just me.

Any thoughts on possible similarities between this nebulous movement and things like Elephant 6 or the Mountain Goats?
 
 
Mystery Gypt
14:48 / 10.07.04
everyone interested in this thread should be checking out Arthur Magazine -- created by jay babcock, original founder of barbelith. the current issue is a kiim gordon cover but previous to that there was a devandra cover with an issue full of that sorta music. they've covered sunburned hand etc etc a lot in the past too. if you buy a subscription, you get a compilation cd edited by devandra. its at arthurmag.com.

also go by every no neck album ever, if you can find them...
 
 
rizla mission
21:18 / 10.07.04
Wow!! That magazine looks amazing. I'm shocked and appalled that I wasn't previously aware of it's existence.
Good ol' Jay Babcock.

I was actually almost regretting starting this thread earlier today, and taking up Locust's anti-categorisation position as outlined earlier.. it's so annoying tieing myself in knots trying to stick everything into venn diagrams and fully explain the precise aesthetic current I'm going on about when I should be just shutting up and digging the music..

But basically, to get a perfect fix on things: just go the frontpage of that Arthur Magazine website, read the line-up and description of the festival they're doing, and look at the poster: THAT'S what I'm going on about, right there!

(wow, there are some AWESOME band names on that line-up; 'Lightning to the Womb'? 'Spires That in the Sunset Rise'? I am severely tempted to just grab myself a suicase full of magic mushrooms and jump on the next plane to Chicago..)
 
 
TeN
00:56 / 11.07.04
On that Arthur website they also have a streaming version of that compilation album edited by Banahrt. I'm listening to it now, and it's quite good.
 
 
+#'s, - names
05:33 / 11.07.04
In a way aren't we all Jay Babcock's childen?
If you dig the No Neck Blues Band I would highly recommend this completelly bizarre CD I got 3 or 4 years ago, Egypt is the Magick Number's How Many Pieces of the Puzzle Can The Mind Go Without?.
 
 
grant
01:09 / 13.07.04
You bastards just made me spend $12.
 
 
The Golden Ass
00:59 / 27.07.04
Yes there certainly seems to be something going on here, and its very exciting. It seems to cover the folkie stuff like Banhart and heavy psychadelic rock a la Comets On Fire, with at least one stray limb sticking into avant/noise territory, i.e. Black Dice or Lightning Bolt.
Arthur magazine sorta seems like the axis point for all these psych. strands, including the spiritual/occult aspects what with columns by Daniel Pinchbeck and a cover feature on the Alan Moore.
I think what we might be seeing is the first blossoms of the coming psychedelic spring which Our Friend Grant Morrison has been predicting in interviews for quite awhiles now.
21st Century Psychedelia starts here, starts now.
It's about Goddamded Time.
 
 
rizla mission
09:13 / 27.07.04
Well it's a pleasant concept and no mistake..
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:25 / 27.07.04
Nipping back a bit from the 21st Century, The Incredible String Band's "The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter" is a truly inspired slab of psychedelic folk. (Piece of trivia- even though I ashamed myself by not knowing Nature & Organisation predated Cashmore's C93 involvement- the cover of Current 93's "Earth Covers Earth" is basically a reworking of the String Band's "Hangman's..." cover. Only with Rose McDowall on it. I'm off for a cold shower now.)
 
 
mkt
09:42 / 30.07.04
This looks like the best. thing. ever.

The Million Tongues Festival
Oh, wait. I live on a different continent.

Hngh.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
10:52 / 30.07.04
Plastic Crimewave Sound backing Mick Farren?

It's a good job my astral projection skills are at their peak.

Seriously, how good would it be to do something like this in Britain?

Oh, and if anyone gets a chance to look at Plastic Crimewave's "Galctic Zoo Dossier" magazine make sure you do 'cos it's SKILL.
 
 
rizla mission
17:27 / 31.07.04
[b]Seriously, how good would it be to do something like this in Britain?[/b]

Very good.

Let's do it.

Anybody who any whacked out psyche bands who might like to contribute....?
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
10:29 / 02.08.04
Yup, shit loads of 'em. Unfortunately I'm a member of most of 'em as well.
 
  

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