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Wilson Teaching Online Courses

 
  

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Sekhmet
16:56 / 22.06.04
Heads up! If you haven't heard, the immortal but ailing Robert Anton Wilson will be teaching courses through the new online Maybe Logic Academy starting July 23. Thought this would probably be of interest to many of you (and possibly also to folks in Switchboard and Head Shop... opinions?)

Info, course listings and registration is available at Maybe Logic Academy.

Please don't take all the spots before I get a chance to register...

(At last... it's the Invisible College!)
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
17:41 / 22.06.04
Never trust a hippy
 
 
Sekhmet
17:42 / 22.06.04
Didn't Wilson say that?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
18:08 / 22.06.04
Still applies.

For someone who promotes fluidity of belief and progressive thinking, RAW doesn't really seem to have moved on too much in his thought processes and general agonysingly useless naive utopian counter cultural hippyspeak since circa 1967, if the recent disinfo interview was anything to go by. Burn down the invisible colleges and chuck all the invisible prisoners out of the invisible prisons.
 
 
Sekhmet
18:33 / 22.06.04
You didn't! (*focuses on end of nose, inscribes chest with Sacred Chao and reverently kisses worn copy of Cosmic Trigger*)

I think he got too old and tired to stick with universal unbelief and decided to be a Buddhist or something... but even given that, I wouldn't characterize his ideas as "useless". "Utopian" and "hippy" I'll give you, surely, but does an author have to be a pessimist to be profound?
 
 
Seth
19:10 / 22.06.04
Nope. Just realistic.
 
 
Sekhmet
19:40 / 22.06.04
For the moment I'll let alone the irony of anyone in Temple insisting on "realism" in anything...

Reading Wilson, and perfoming some of the experiments and mind excercises he suggests, has changed my life for the better. That's "real" enough for me.

I would also suggest that perhaps if more people hadn't given up their "utopian" ideas since 1967, we might not be living in such a horribly polluted, wartorn and cynical world. If Wilson's so-called "naive idealism" is such anathema, I can only suppose you prefer cynical nihilism? Jaded pessimism? Studied hopelessness? Help yourself.

I would characterize RAW as a studied optimist rather than a naive idealist. He is aware of the alternatives and the contradictions, but realizes - and points out to his readers - that there are multiple ways of viewing reality, and one can choose one's outlook. He's a glass-half-full kinda guy, despite having some pretty horrid things happen in his life, and currently being wheelchair-bound due to his post-polio syndrome. You have to admire that he hasn't succumbed to despair.

I'm certain there are others here besides me who would be interested in communicating with him directly... I know there have been several RAW discussions here recently. Just thought I'd share!
 
 
FunkAnorak
21:59 / 22.06.04
The website makes it sound just like any other cult / weekend retreat.

Whoop de friggin' doo.
 
 
Ria
01:43 / 23.06.04
perhaps you would like to suggest to him some alternative marketing approaches. meanwhile he has chosen not to live off the grid and given this has a living to make which I hope you do not begrudge him. I agree with what Sekhmet said.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
04:31 / 23.06.04
First Hyatt, now RAW - looks like the penny has finally dropped regarding the possibilities of earning a bob or two over the web, without the inconvenience of flying all over the place. Who's going to be next on the bandwagon, I wonder?
 
 
osymandus
08:40 / 23.06.04
I dont believe this is a bandwagon at all. Both gentleman you mention are getting on in years , from a purely logistical and convience for both presenter and audience the online courses are a fantastic idea (no i dont run or have an afiliation to one either !).

RAW's notion of a utopia is neither niave or possibly even "realistic" (please again ignore irony here).As he himself states in many of his writings not to believe anything his written .

As for glassies the mans far too large to fit inside one .


Now all of you, go an finish your breakfeast and clean out your bowls.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:04 / 23.06.04
I'm more than a bit perturbed by the references in this thread to the concept of "realism" somehow being ironic and out of place within this forum. Speak for yourself and your own practices. If it isn't "realistic" in the sense of getting tangible quantifiable results then I don't have time to engage with it. As far as I'm concerned, "realism" should be central to both the practice of magic and to its discussion.

The main drawback I can see in RAW teaching online courses rather than courses in person, is that you would be unable to pull his beard. I actually quite like a lot of RAW's writing and ideas, particularly Cosmic Trigger 1 and Prometheus Rising. But I entirely despise the cult of personality that has sprung up around him, which treats him like the counter cultural equivalent of a medieval saint who cannot put a foot wrong, and whose words and ideas are not under any circumstances open to any level of critique or reappraisal. He is a former porno editor who seems to have been writing the same book for about four decades with increasingly diminishing returns, and was best mates with a guy who sold acid to kids for the CIA. Some of his ideas are brilliant, other are a bit rubbish. There's your online study course right there.
 
 
osymandus
09:36 / 23.06.04
Mind you having just seen the date and thinking again about the site. Could it not be possible its all a cunning rouse ?

Once you complete the courses, are you then told to go away and think for yourself etc.

With reagrds to the canonisation of RAW , surely that really only applies to people who are still working through his litrature rather then those who get him ?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:57 / 23.06.04
Ah, yes. Those who get him. Like I get George Morrison much better than you poor fools, who are still working through his literature. Those who not only understand his work entirely, but those with whom he would really like to hang out and shoot some pool.
 
 
osymandus
11:14 / 23.06.04
He he knew someone would read it like that .

Ok it was my fault not for explaining myself properly .
(i hadnt fed it , not enough sugar in the blood !)

I should really have said , my perception of his sigil intergration program that RAW downladed to me via the pulped intestines of a Carbo-oxy bio- transumter , impacted on my level 3 virtual circuit, there by enabling the current incumbant ego of this organic-trans bipedual unit to inflate out of proportion due to a misplaced believe that a peer-to-peer connect(ISO model) had been established.

Or read it liked , but didnt get hung up on it's author.

Also I think I could beat him at pool , but snookers a better game.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:37 / 23.06.04
I would also suggest that perhaps if more people hadn't given up their "utopian" ideas since 1967, we might not be living in such a horribly polluted, wartorn and cynical world.

Because if we all, like, hung out and smoked weed and switched on our higher neural circuits of consciousness and were groovy to one another, people like George W Bush would never be able to get into power. Oh shit, that's what happened.
 
 
_Boboss
11:44 / 23.06.04
no snot gyp. the george bushes clearly never. you should have said somBuNall or something.

still to me the best writer on the occult to bring something like intellectual rigour to the party - if you know of better, do tell.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:12 / 23.06.04
Dear Barbelith,

I am appalled at the level of abuse being hurled at the great man, Pope Bob Wilson (affectionately known to me and my friends as "RAW") in this thread. Why if George Dubya Morrison were reading these snide and unnecessary comments he'd be spinning in his supercontext. RAW is a great man, who suffered terrible hardships, but always kept a smile on his face. I'm sure I won't be the only regular reader to bemoan this childish and unfair treatment that is being dished out to the man who we can only call RAW. If you can find me a book published by New Falcon that in anyway condones the attitudes in evidence on this thread, I'll eat my entire collection of Christopher Hyatt books, along with Israel Regardies cockring that I bought off ebay. I just don't get it, why it's almost as if some of you people have read Saint Bob's work with your critical faculties in place and been selective about which ideas to take on board. This is arrogance at best, but worst of all, you're hurting a poor old man's feelings. Obviously RAW has spent a lifetime practising really brilliant deconditioning excercises that rewire your central nervous system and make you sexier and more intelligent. So he knows much more about stuff than you. If I were you, I'd just shut your big mouths, because the facts speak for themselves. Because of the rate that information is doubling, we've made huge advances in the last 40 years in space migration, intelligence increase, and life extension. Haven't we? Guys?

Yours hurtfully,

Cyberhippy23
Graduate of RAW's 12 step, 8 circuit programme, of aesthetically appealing but often all too lazy and poorly thought out ideas and, like, cool discordian shit.
 
 
pornotaxi
12:25 / 23.06.04
i'll give you ten quid cash for israel regardies cockring. the power must be immense. my precioussss..
 
 
osymandus
12:29 / 23.06.04
Forget it , GL was obviously the one who beat me in the auction and my bid was £400 !
 
 
Sekhmet
12:29 / 23.06.04
Gypsy - the "realism" remark was largely pointed at the fact that in the practice of magick (as in RAW's writing) a large part of what's involved is questioning one's assumptions about what's "real", and having the ability to realign one's belief of what is or is not possible. Insisting on "realism" in magick or philosophy is bollocks.

If we all hung out, smoked weed, turned on higher consciousness and, like, actually VOTED, hopefully W would never have gotten into power. Far be it from me to suggest that reading and learning is tatamount to taking action; if you want to affect "reality" there are other things you have to do. But are you suggesting that expanding one's mind and taking a little consideration of others' welfare might not possibly help, in some tee-weensy infinitesimal way, make the world a better place? Maybe that's just in my reality tunnel, as I dance off dreamily to la-la land with the greenyyellow sky and pinkfluffy cottoncandy clouds. Wheeee.

"Cults of personality" aside, I see nothing wrong with being interested in interacting directly with an author whose writing I like, and possibly being exposed to new material. Figure the poor guy's probably not got many books left in him at this point, should probably take this chance while it exists.

And by the way, just to be clear, I have no affiliation with the website, Deepleaf Productions, RAW, his publishers or agents, or extradimensional beings broadcasting gnostic vibrations from the vicinity of Sirius (okay, maybe some of those). Just saw the site, was interested and thought others might be also. No ulterior, exterior, interior or posterior motives.
 
 
pornotaxi
12:45 / 23.06.04
in defence of hyatt, he does appear to be quite upfront about soliciting for money offered up by the gullible. caveat emptor!
 
 
nidu713
17:13 / 23.06.04
Personally I think the RAW/Hyatt trend of teaching classes online is a great idea. Another excellent application of the internet's ability to dissolve geographic boundaries and create virtual communities. And if I was interested in RAW or Hyatt so much as to want to pay for some of their attention/communication/extended information, then so be it. If not, I wouldn't sign up for the class. But I'm willing to bet that everyone who has posted to this thread thus far has someone (alive or dead) that they wouldn't think twice about signing up for their online class.

A (wo)man's gotta eat... whether it be selling time/information that's part of their guru persona... or consuming the knowledge offered by these personalities.
 
 
Skeleton Camera
19:02 / 23.06.04
Is the question whether Wilson's "selling out" through this teaching gig? Or his credibility (sp?) as an author, thinker, and mind-programmer?

Personally I don't see much use in the courses and the reverent tone the site takes is silly. But hey, someone who is getting into Wilson or *really* into Wilson's stuff may well benefit from them. I'm not going to shoot him, or them, down. There's always a benefit to someone offering new information.

"Maybe Logic Academy," though, as a venue? Is it a practical joke from Wilson or an actual institution? It does sound like another retreat center/New Age organization, those words having just as much weight as Gypsy's "hippy." What bothers me about such places is the PRICE. Turns this stuff into an elitist curriculum, at least from first-hand sources.

As for "realism" in the Temple...."magical realism!" Not just a literary genre, it's a philosophy.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
19:25 / 23.06.04
the "realism" remark was largely pointed at the fact that in the practice of magick (as in RAW's writing) a large part of what's involved is questioning one's assumptions about what's "real", and having the ability to realign one's belief of what is or is not possible. Insisting on "realism" in magick or philosophy is bollocks.

But RAW doesn’t just write about magic does he. You seem to be holding up the concept of “Nothing is true, everything is permitted” as a convenient way of sidestepping any sort of critical engagement with any of the man's written output. Which is exactly why I have problems with RAW and find elements of his work a bit dodgy and coercive.
 
 
Sekhmet
19:38 / 23.06.04
That's it! WILSONIAN JIHAD!!! (*foams at mouth*)

What you seem to be doing is making a lot of assumptions about what other people think... just because I'm a big enough fan to pay a little money for a peek at some extra info and a chat with an author, by no means does this indicate that I consider him a god, a saint, or otherwise infallible. Perhaps you should question your own assumptions about that before you go poking about in mine?

Anyhoo, I think we're all taking ourselves far too seriously today...
 
 
rising and revolving
20:26 / 23.06.04
Yeah, but GL, you haven't exactly given anyone material to work with here. You're accusing people of "sidestepping any sort of critical engagement with any of the man's written output" while at the same time refusing to critically engage. Unless you count "never trust a hippy" as a fully fledged stance.

In fact, the closest you've come to any actual analysis (beyond "He's past it! And his fans are all hero worshippers!") is to say you didn't mind Cosmic Trigger and Prometheus Rising. Grand.

Seems to me you're tarring everyone with a brush that may be accurate when you're taking his usual fans into consideration, but just doesn't seem to viably apply to anyone here. If there was anyone playing the role of rabid fan I'd say "sure, go for it. Rip 'em a new one," - but no-one here is worshipping false messiahs.
 
 
Sekhmet
20:33 / 23.06.04
Indeedily-doodily. If you want to debate any particular points of philosophy, be more specific (or, dare I say, consistent) than denouncing all Wilson's works as as has-been "hippyspeak" in one breath and then saying you like some of his stuff in the next... maybe we can get somewhere closer to a real discussion...
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
20:54 / 23.06.04
Calm down mate, you may have started this thread but it isn't all about you, y'know.

I'm not making assumptions about what you think, to be honest I couldn't give a toss whether you want to have Wilson's babies or not. I'm using this thread to highlight and talk about some of the problems that I personally have with RAW, the way his work is generally received by a specific demograph, and his general media persona. I was under the impression that this was a discussion forum where such things could be fairly and reasonably debated without resorting to declarations of Jihad.

I'm not attacking you for liking RAW's work and wanting to start an enthusiastic thread about it. I'm just expressing a differing opinion on the man and his output that you don't happen to agree with. For someone who has just been talking about the relativity of belief, you seem very unwilling to consider the writing of this author from an alternative perspective.

You will notice that I quoted you directly in my last post, and pointed out - what to my mind - appeared to be a gaping hole in the logic that you were using. You've made no effort to engage with that.

If you or anyone else wants to sign up on RAW's correspondence course, then good luck to you. It's really none of my business. My comments throughout this thread about the way that RAWs material tends to be received are in no sense directed towards you, apart from the specific instances where I've quoted you directly and questioned or commented on it. All I'm doing in this thread is questioning certain popular and dominant modes of thought in contemporary occultism, because I think that all of these things should be at least challenged. I'm not expecting you to agree with me, but I am expecting a decent level of debate that might challenge some of my own assumptions and blind spots. Because this is barbelith, and that's what it does.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
21:25 / 23.06.04

You said:

Yeah, but GL, you haven't exactly given anyone material to work with here

I said:

He seems to have been writing the same book for about four decades with increasingly diminishing returns
And:

Because if we all, like, hung out and smoked weed and switched on our higher neural circuits of consciousness and were groovy to one another, people like George W Bush would never be able to get into power. Oh shit, that's what happened.

And:

Because of the rate that information is doubling, we've made huge advances in the last 40 years in space migration, intelligence increase, and life extension. Haven't we? Guys?

I’ll put my hand up to the fact that I haven’t gone off and hunted out my RAW books and quoted verse and chapter that I disagree with. But, I’ve hardly just walked into the thread and said: “Never trust a hippy” and then “Actually, some of his stuff is OK” as you seem to be implying.

Broadly, my points are that RAW is considered a progressive thinker but, based on the recent disinfo interview, seemingly hasn’t had an original idea for 40 years and is still spinning the same old line. All of his books published after the big three of Cosmic Trigger, Quantum Psychology, and Prometheus Rising tend to just be rehashes of the same material.

Secondly, one of RAW’s key themes, extrapolated from Timothy Leary, involves the eight circuit model of consciousness – the higher circuits of which can be switched on by utilising various drugs popular during the 1960s. It is strongly implied that this process will make everyone sexier and more intelligent, and lead to a kind of hippy idealist utopia. No, it fucking won’t.

Thirdly, another key theme is this concept of information doubling – which is absolute bollocks. How is information doubling? What the fuck does that even mean? There’s also his annoying and frequent assertion that we’re on course for space migration, life extension and intelligence increase. Again, it doesn’t look that way from where I’m sitting.

Seems to me you're tarring everyone with a brush that may be accurate when you're taking his usual fans into consideration, but just doesn't seem to viably apply to anyone here

Sorry, I keep forgetting that I’m addressing his “special fans” rather than his usual fans. My mistake.
 
 
--
22:09 / 23.06.04
What was that Burroughs line? "We're here to go... INTO SPACE!!! That's what we're all here for." I'm still waiting for that space migration thing to happen myself.

I hesitate to call RAW a hero but he is a man I have immense respect for (one of the only true heroes of mine is P-Orridge, but that's probably because he was the very first alternative counter-cultural figure I latched on to in my formulative years). What I like about Wilson is that, in a way, I can relate to the guy. He was tortured by Catholic guilt in his 20's (to say nothing of being plagued by many bizarre psychosomatic ailments... In this aspect I can really relate to him), suffers bizarre eye issues, and even has stage fright (as he disclosed at the disinfo.con event). He's not afraid to show his vulnerability either... Like that chapter in "Cosmic Trigger 2" where he breaks down in tears months after the death of his daughter and questions his entire utopian outlook on life. Fortunetly it seems that his suffering only strenghtened his resolve. I'll take a utopian view over a realist view anyday... reality is getting uglier by the minute and as The Matrix films showcased it really isn't much better then the illusion. RAW showed people ways in which they could liberate themselves, but it wasn't so much using his methods as it was the act of just TRYING to liberate yourself from conditioned behavior (I realize me saying things like that sound ironic in light of my past statements over the years but what the hell, I'll say it anyway).

Bottom line, I give the guy props. By all accounts he seems to have lived a fulfilling life... A long marriage, raised a family, made a career out of doing what he loved best, dablled in tons of different subcultures/fields, hung out with counter-cultural architects like Burroughs, Leary, Ginsberg, et al. More power to him. I really don't see how the fact that he was a porno editor at one time should be held against him.
 
 
the cat's iao
00:58 / 24.06.04


is going on in this thread?

"Hey, RAW is teaching a course."

"Yeah? Well slag him and the horse he rode in on!"

"Hey, RAW is alright, his work has helped me change the way I see things."

"Yeah? Well slag you too fanboy!"

Fun times.
 
 
--
01:43 / 24.06.04
This whole thing sounds interesting and I was planning on signing up (seeing as most of the required texts I already have anyway) but then I saw that each course was about $125 or so. Which is cheap compared to college but do I really want to spend $500 to learn stuff from books I've read already (and keep in mind I have the books... Pity the poor soul whose only read 'Illuminatus" and needs to spend the additional money on the textbooks). Er, no thanks mate. I'd rather create my own system.
 
 
Sekhmet
01:50 / 24.06.04
GL - the "Jihad" remark was intended to be an ironic poke at your apparent insistence that Wilson fans were all goosestepping wanker potheads who can't think for themselves. My apologies if I didn't make it obvious enough that I was taking the piss. I, for one, am trying to be good-humored here.

Now: I will concede your point that Wilson's message seems not to have changed much over the years, and that he presents much the same material, in varying forms, throughout his works. I would suggest that this isn't a sign of stagnation so much as the consistent evolution of a theory over time, and an attempt to reach a large cross-section of the population with said theory. Illuminatus! isn't everyone's cuppa, but he has produced other works which appeal more to the philosophical, to the scientific, to readers of fiction, nonfiction, biography, fictionalized history, historicized fantasy, theatre, and James Joyce. It's a rare talent to write well in more than one style, which he does. And the message that he attempts to transmit is simply this: question your assumptions, don't listen to any so-called authorities, learn as much as you can, and enjoy life. My opinion is that this is a message that bears repeating, and not a lot of alteration in its basic form. However, there is a legitimate danger of a formula such as this becoming a dogma itself, and its messenger a guru, which is where we run into the basic paradox of discordian thought and chaos magick - avoiding a rigid belief system while using the formulas that "work". That is an issue which has been discussed at length elsewhere. Basically, though, I'd say the reason his ideas haven't "progressed" as much as you might expect is simply because most people haven't caught up to him yet. Present company excepted, the majority of the human population never questions what they perceive as reality, or stops to think about why they believe what believe. The fact that someone is out there encouraging people to do that is heartening, even if it's an old hippy wheezer in a wheelchair.

The old hippy wheezer in question is, of course, fallible, and on occassion I'd imagine this would cause him to turn out ill-conceived or poor quality writing, though at this point I've admittedy read less than half his works and apparently haven't run into that bit yet. I have sometimes heard things come out of his mouth in interviews that made me wince, but it seems that if he has some time to think and a keyboard he consistently does fairly well. (That's part of why I'm excited about this opportunity, besides the fact that it will finally goad me into reading things I've been putting off looking at.) He's human, not a saint, and the porn editor thing would probably bother me a lot more if it wasn't Playboy, which hardly counts as porn by comparison to anything else that's out there... but he's just a good writer with some very interesting ideas.

I'd hazard, though, that if there are impressionable folks out there looking for a guru to lead them by the nose, there are way worse people they could latch onto. I'll take a thousand hippy pothead discordian wannabes over one Rush Limbaugh dittohead any day. Except maybe for doing my taxes.

Again, there are many RAW works that I haven't cracked the covers on yet, but in the material I've been exposed to thus far he's much less on the "sex & drugs" trip than, say, Leary or Terrence McKenna. I haven't ever seen him suggest that the best and sole route to world peace and universal happiness was mind-altering substances... just mind altering. And I happen to agree to a large extent. Nothing about the human condition is going to change unless the individuals who comprise the planet's population change. Drugs are one way to change your wiring, but there are other ways - magick, meditation, sex, gnosis, yoga, and martial arts being among them. I can't fault Wilson for offering all of them as options, and considering the amount of time he spent hanging about with the Leary crowd, I'm surprised not to have heard more about drugs from him.

Regarding space migration, life extension, and the information explosion: these are not Wilson's ideas alone, and in my opinion there's fairly credible evidence that such advances are being artificially delayed by the Conspiracy... but aside from that, sure, maybe those ideas are whacked. It's not his central message, or even closely tied to it. Toss the dross, then. You've the right. I like thinking maybe there's a revolution of some kind around the corner for humanity. For right now I'll settle for one of my own.

Quantum Psychology is the reason I'm here. Well, half the reason, along with the Invisibles. My life has altered drastically over the past two years because of Wilson's and Morrison's writing. You want to talk about realism? An author is "real" when he makes you think hard enough to change your mind about something. And these two helped me change my mind about everything.

Besides, he's a cool old fart who smokes pigslaying quantities of pot and runs for governor of California under the banner of the Guns-n-Dope Party. C'mon, big ups for the attitude at least.
 
 
--
02:01 / 24.06.04
Yeah, RAW's writings do seem to have inspired GM quite a bit. I discovered RAW through GM and it was GM that brought me here. Roundabout... I can see how some of his ideas may look a little outdated now but I'm sure there were a lot of kids in the 70's who were blown away by it then... Just like how chaos magic did the same thing in the 80's and what not.
 
  

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