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Excalibur #2

 
  

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Mario
23:11 / 16.06.04
I'm sorry, But I can't be coherent right now.

http://www.popcultureshock.com/previewer.php?id=3041&p=4
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:24 / 16.06.04
I bet you it's another MAGNETO Clone just like that "Joseph" era . . .
 
 
Mario
23:37 / 16.06.04
Fairly close, actually. But not as coherent.
 
 
ciarconn
00:42 / 17.06.04
Uh!

SPOILERS
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As it looks, it's gonna be another one of those "Xavier's masterplans" like when he got himself substituted by the changeling (around 55 of the original series) in order to organize himself and pile up power to defeat an alien race... Wait... that means Claremont just warmed over another old idea...
 
 
A
04:11 / 17.06.04
Grant Morrison must be spinning in his grave!
 
 
Chubby P
06:34 / 17.06.04
We all knew it would happen but I can't believe how quickly they've pissed all over Grant Morrisons stories!
 
 
osymandus
07:25 / 17.06.04
I actually prefer the clairmont magneto . From the evoltionary point of a character who survived the holocuaust, has worn more "fictionsuits" (gee Grant you missed a good oppurtunity there ;-) ) then most , surley by know the character would reaslise the futilitey of being number one bad guy . Just look what they did with Thanos . Far more instreting . Lets be honest, how far can you go with a charcter whos goal is either universal distruction or world domination ? Especially if said charcters are supposed to have genuis intellects !

Keepings a villian like magneto in this state means you need good quality writers to maitain it , its just to easy to flip bakc and take the too worn road of evil threat returns !
 
 
DeCloah
11:10 / 17.06.04
The premise is pretty thin if it turns out that Xavier's "master plan" involved the death of 3 million people and Jean Grey... some plan...
 
 
osymandus
11:34 / 17.06.04
Oh dont worry , they'll just go on a quest for the 7 dragonballs and wish back everyone who died ...

oh hang on
 
 
Logos
12:00 / 17.06.04
Actually, this would have been a good mind scramble if they'd done it during NXM:

"You're Magneto? How can you be Magneto, when I'm Magneto?" (pulls off rubber Phantomex mask)

"No, wait, we're all Magneto. Holy crundle. Magneto was right. We're all part of a self-evolving larval entity in ten dimensional space-time!"
 
 
FinderWolf
12:57 / 17.06.04
LOL!
 
 
Quimper
14:41 / 17.06.04
Claremont should at least have the decency to say that Planet X Magneto/Xorn was Weapon 16.
 
 
Aertho
15:21 / 17.06.04
Hell yeah! Weapon XVI! I forgot about that.
 
 
Mario
17:12 / 17.06.04
I'm now taking bets on how long until it's revealed that Sublime is actually the Shadow King.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:14 / 17.06.04
SO WORST!

The Magneto in Planet X was the most perfect depiction of Magneto ever, so this is really disappointing.

There were a lot of ways to bring Magneto back which didn't have to fuck up one of the most popular X-stories of the past ten years - this is just pathetic. I deeply hope that someone gets to retcon this someday.
 
 
Logos
17:24 / 17.06.04
I'm now waiting to find out which X-title features Jean Grey wandering in on Scott & Emma, saying, "What's up, I go into the next room to watch reruns of 'Gidget' and suddenly everybody thinks I'm dead?"
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:27 / 17.06.04
Can someone who was brave enough to actually read it Break down what exactly is claimed to have been done?
 
 
Sax
17:35 / 17.06.04
What is this Excalibur of which you speak? Has it got Captain Britain in it, then?
 
 
houdini
17:36 / 17.06.04
Well, the art's nice.

Um. I have contrary views:

Personally, my favourite take on Magneto was what Claremont did with him between UXM #150 and #250. I really do like the treatment of him then, even though it was a total retcon of the Lee/Thomas Magneto that Claremont treated in his early issues.

That said, I think what Morrisson did with Magneto in New X meN was really neat and very thought provoking. I had problems with the whole Xorneto thing, but it was still cool.

What I really hate is that New X meN is being so deliberately and surgically cut out of the MU and thrown onto the scrapheap. For all that I had some criticisms of Morrisson's choices during the series (Weapon Plus, Fantomex, Xorneto, I'm looking at you) the good far, far outweighed the bad. It was also the best X-Men series since the peak Claremont years, arguably the best ever.

To see it thrown away for the pure unadulterated crap that is the modern Austen/Claremont gestalt is just painful.

I'm very glad I stopped reading with #154.

That is all.
 
 
Aertho
18:14 / 17.06.04
Didn't somebody suggest ON THIS BOARD, that Magneto's exposure to Kick in conjunction with the stresses of the Genosha attack actually accelerate his secondary mutation?

I mean, Morrison joked in the dialogue that Magneto's secondary mutation was to keep coming back from the dead, but in the same issue, he has a confrontation with his "inner star".

SOMEBODY suggested that Magneto's secondary mutation was "splitting" his persoanlity into two philosophically opposed personas. Two "poles", get it? In one, he was diabolically eeeeeevil, manipulative, and ridiculously self-absorbed. In the other, his "inner star", he was zen-like, and was respresentative in the actions and role Magneto took on during his tenure as "Michael Xavier".

Perhaps... PERHAPS... Claremont is using the secondary mutation to split Magneto into two bodies? The EEEEvil one was rescued by Weapon Plus and used as the Xorn plant. The Good one was dumped and and left to die, clinging to the wall of a sewer. Perhaps the Good one is the one that composed the beautiful "far, far beyond this death" speech? Either way, I hope there's SOME intelligent progression to all this, but i should know better... They gave us Mindee, for god's sake.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:45 / 17.06.04
I'd argue with Flux over Morrison's version of Magneto, though not much because I hadn't read the preceeding 8 years of X-Men comics so might have lost track, Claremont had built up a genuinely three-dimensional character that always behaved in a certain way and it was up to how other people judged this interaction as to whether he was good or evil, but when I stopped the comics already the writers following him were already beginning to piss that all away, so who knows. I found the Magneto of Planet X to be a tedious, pathetic one-note character, even without the influence of Kick.

But to take what was a throwaway line from Morrison and use it to base a huge retcon involving Magneto not being Magneto but being someone else pretending to be Magneto... Truly astounding.
 
 
The Falcon
21:59 / 17.06.04
I think it was me Chad; I was thinking of Mags as a schizotype, partly influenced by the Filth issue bearing the conditions name as a title.

Houdini, if you actually look at the 'reloaded' x-line, it's hardly throwing out Grant's X-stuff, but rather using every possible scrap in each title.
 
 
Ben Danes
04:34 / 18.06.04
The thing I don't get is that if Planet X Magneto is an imposter, and Excalibur Magneto is genuine, then why the hell is Excalibur Mags wearing the Planet X Mag's uniform on the covers of Excalibur?

I'm going to become an X-Men writer just so I can get rid of this stupid ret-con. Mark my words!

Its funny that the two things which didn't need to really be messed with or ret-conned (Magneto and Xorn) are, and the one thing that could have used some more explaination, Cassandra Nova (as in what she really is, Weapon Plus connection, etc.) hasn't been.
 
 
Mario
11:47 / 18.06.04
What I don't understand is, if Mags was alive, and Granteto was an impostor, why didn't Magneto DO anything? You'd think a guy with his ego would have utterly FLATTENED someone who dared impersonate him.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
12:15 / 18.06.04
But is anyone surprised? It's fucking Claremont for God's sake! The man has spent most of his career undoing his own work, rendering HIS OWN stories irrelevent and lacking any emotional punch. Remember: Everything after #154 is a diseased fever-dream of a quadroplegic X-nerd in a coma.
 
 
houdini
12:41 / 18.06.04
Houdini, if you actually look at the 'reloaded' x-line, it's hardly throwing out Grant's X-stuff, but rather using every possible scrap in each title.

Okay. I can see what you're getting at here, but I disagree.

I think it's a matter of what you consider to be the baby and what you consider to be the bathwater.

Sure, they're using the Genosha destruction, Magneto, Xorn, Weapon Plus and all that stuff. But the way in which their using these things serves to sever these things from the meaning and purpose that they served in New X meN -- leaving only hollow shells.

Xorn, if anything, was a lesson on our own willingness to be deceived. The readers, the X-Men, ultimately even Magneto are taken in by the carefully crafted image of this Chinese holy man. The high point of Planet X (for me) was when Magneto reveals this and mocks us for it -- "A man with a star for a brain ... I thought it was too obvious."

Under the new administration, Xorn is not only an actual character but, ironically, even more of a stereotype. How can the real Xorn be more two-dimensional, shallow and uninteresting than Magneto-pretending-to-be-Xorn?

In New X meN Morrisson shows us a world without Magneto. He shows us an X-Men without Magneto and even glimpses of a world where the X-Men temporarily abandon their old paradigm. For a moment we get to imagine that they really are working towards peace and integration and that some progress is genuinely possible. With Mags' death-speech in 'Ambient Magnetic Fields' Morrisson shows us the power Mags can have as a martyr. Then, once he's convinced us that a world without Magneto is a better world he brings the villain back and hammers home the point that Magneto's time has passed. (While I felt there were other ways to make Magneto a decent character, ever since (New) X-Men #1 and the massive retcon which wiped away the decent man of UXM #150-250 there really hasn't been a Magneto worth saving. So I think Morrisson's critique is totally OTM.) And yet the Management have decided to save him anyway, undoing the critique of 'Planet X' and bringing us yet another multi-Magneto catastrophe.

All in all, the point of New X meN (by my reading) was to show how the X-Men could become something exciting, something new, something fresh once again. Yes, many of the plot elements of those stories are being recycled in Reload. But the manner of the treatment serves to strip mine them of their meaning and integrity, cutting away the point of Xorn, of Planet X, of Weapon Plus, and rendering them part of the "same old same old" that they were intended to replace.

Just my 2c.
 
 
Quimper
13:01 / 18.06.04
To touch on the Xorn as stereotype issue...to me it is such an insult to bring back Xorn and have him bowing in a red and yellow kimono on the issue cover. It was an insult to begin with to even retcon Planet X, but to do it with such a lack of taste and understanding, it's now become a cheap parody of itself. If The Simpsons did an episode about this, there would have been a scene where Xorn was reintroduced by some heartless comic book hack bowing in a kimono.

GM's work obviously went completely over Marvel's head. Did they not understand GM's concept of branding the X-corporation? The X-Franchise has no brand, and it has the potential to be the most recognizable brand of comics. Yet, Marvel has completely missed the boat on marketing and sustaining these characters. It's a shame.
 
 
TroyJ15
13:09 / 18.06.04
Read Excalibur #2, Charles and Magneto were working together since Genosha fell and the Magneto in Planet X was NOT the real Magneto. Gay. But the worst part is Claremont sweeps it under the rug with a piece of dialouge. "whoever that man was who impersonated you in NY caused great devestation." God! a part of me wonders if this was all part of Morrison's concept, that Xorneto was indeed weapon 16 and that was never really Erik. Let's hope that's the case. Either way all the X-titles have gone to pot. Even Astonishing is just okay but nothing "New" (pun intended). Why give Morrison the keys to the kingdom if you're going to sit and revise everything!
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
16:25 / 18.06.04
As GM said, he played with Marvel's toys whilst he could... now someone else gets to. Those "toys" remain the smae be they living or dead.

The X-men finished at issue 154. End of.

Convincing yourself otherwise is foolhardy, especially on this board.
We all know Mags would be back, and Xorn, to bother with the whys and wherefores seems like a waste of energy better spent enjoying the books that ARE good.
I kinda resented being dragged back in to the X-fold for Grant's run but I enjoyed it whilst I could. I was naive thinking I'd stick around any longer. All of this subsequent "Reload" just proves it to me.
Austen mentions in a newsarama interview that GM was supposed to be part of the Reload... there's a bigger story here I'm sure of it. Well, maybe a dirtier bit of gossip at the very least!
 
 
FinderWolf
16:39 / 18.06.04
>> Austen mentions in a newsarama interview that GM was supposed to be part of the Reload... there's a bigger story here I'm sure of it. Well, maybe a dirtier bit of gossip at the very least!

oooh, interesting -- a story we may never hear, after Morrison's quasi-abrupt break with Marvel...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:34 / 18.06.04
I'm fairly certain that when he started Grant gave good reason to believe he'd be staying on X-Men for at least a year longer than he did but I couldn't remember where he said it, I certainly remember thinking of it somewhere near the end of year two/beginning of year three when it came out when he'd been finishing, I thought that was earlier than he'd said, but maybe he just got bored quicker than he thought he would.

And I'm surprised they'd bring back Xorn, what with him not existing and all. But then there was that pirate adventure with Nightcrawler and the Bamfs, so I suppose I shouldn't have been surprised.
 
 
m
09:12 / 19.06.04
I'm not a fan of Claremont, but:
Why didn't everyone get so pissed when Grant Morrison killed Magneto twice in just one run! And it's not like GM was the only writer to come up with the idea to kill the character. Hell, I think that Magneto's been killed three or four times now. So why is it that Grant gets a pass on such a dubious plot development and not Claremont? Where was the righteous indignation then? Also: I never understood the attraction to the Xorn character in the first place. Please explain. He was a dull character to begin with, and now Claremont is going to make him even more boring and one dimentional. Whoopee. I'll bet Xorn's a ninja now. So what.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:31 / 19.06.04
If you'll look at the Planet X part one thread, you'll see there was a lot of complaints about Grant bringing back Magneto as well, so it's not that we've just got it in for Claremont, but with him it's the sheer laziness of it, plus the fact that Claremont is just going for a rerub of the past and not really bring anything new to the table. Morrison's run had it's faults, but there were a few new ideas in there (and, before you complain, yes, even by Morrison's second issue) as well as forcing change on a setup that hadn't really altered since Claremont took over the show for the first time way back when...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:04 / 19.06.04
Charles and Magneto were working together since Genosha fell and the Magneto in Planet X was NOT the real Magneto.

Funny that Charles addressed him as if he were the real thing at the end of Planet X, if he knew all along...
 
 
m
19:16 / 19.06.04
Yeah, sorry for the obnoxious tone of my last post. Booze angries up the blood. Oh well.
Still, I find it hard to work up the energy to be disappointed in Claremont again. Remember, Morrison began his run by dropping in lots of sudden changes that were explained in a line or two of dialogue just like Claremont's doing. Sure, Grant's ideas were better, but by the end of his run he had managed to either ruin or ignore the best of them. I was already over it by the time Claremont showed up to make things worse. And really, what did Morrison leave to be worked with? Everything was wrecked.
 
  

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