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Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
15:30 / 07.06.04
Although I know it's not really the fault of the film, can I however express mild annoyance at the fact that the largest role for a black actor was a FUCKING SHRUNKEN HEAD? Cheers.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
16:55 / 07.06.04
Good point. Not a lot of ethnic mix. Lots of fat folk though, and they're all eeevil! But, again, that's not really the fault of the film.

That said, I thought it was great. Not a lot to say after some excellent posts, particularly Deva's. I loved the darker mood and that probably took Cuaron's touch. Columbus' more literal reading of the more compendious earlier books would have toiled there, I think. Cuaron was blessed however with a slimmer volume and freed of the need to explain and scene-set.

Another cheer for the cgi, particularly the fabulous hippogriff. The werewolf wasn't so hot but did give a worn theme a new pelt. It seemed so tired and John Landis when it was kicking off but I liked the retention of so much were- in the -wolf.

Hermione rocks! The boys are better too, adulthood creeping in and all, but she's marvellous.

And I really liked Michael Gambon's Dumbledore. Seemed much more mercurial, less magisterial and stuffy than Richard Harris and therefore going to work better when we get to some of the Dumbledore politics in Goblet and Phoenix. He's more Merlin-like, bearing in mind the reverse ageing thing and all. He can do the wink / nod / directing the action through cryptic clues bit.

Magic. Only probloem was the Spanish mother explaining every word of dialogue and plot turn to her badly behaved brats in the seats next to me. Grrr. You'd think it was supposed to be a children's film or summat.
 
 
Tamayyurt
19:40 / 07.06.04
Although I know it's not really the fault of the film, can I however express mild annoyance at the fact that the largest role for a black actor was a FUCKING SHRUNKEN HEAD?

That is true, but I felt this film had a better enthic mix than the last two. Yeah, they were all background characters but better in the background than not there at all. So at least Cuaron is trying.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:34 / 08.06.04
I mean, they get upset about a scratch from a hippogryph, but they let dementors roam freely on school grounds...?

In the book it's made clear that Dumbledore is very much against the Dementors' presence, but is overruled by Fudge. And that the Hippogriff thing is mainly Lucius Malfoy causing trouble/using his influence.



Mmm. I enjoyed this alot. Made by someone who wanted to make *a good film*, rather than a page-by-page translation. And consequently had a lot more oomph to it. Most of the editing decisions taken are extremely well thought-out.

Though, the stag thing could have been dealt with very easily by adding it into Sirius' last speech about 'finding the people you love within you' (in the book, Dumbledore makes a similar speech in and emphasises the Prongs=James/Harry thing.)

And entrance of my favourite slashyboy....

Anywaaaaay, by far the best adaptation thus far. *Looks* absolutely wonderful, much greater impression of Hogwarts actually being a 3-dimensional location as opposed to a backdrop.

Lovely visual imagination in moving bewteen scenes, eg we see harry's face reflected in the train window after the dementor attack, it dissolves into black, we switch scenes, lots of nice touches like that....

Adding to the sense of this all taking place a more interesting/magical/'liquidy' world.

David Thewlis=absolutely wonderful. Nicely adding a bit of menace in the 3-way with Sirius (ooer) and Snape, which I think tends to get underplayed in the whole 'isn't Remus cute and snuggly' thing.

but yeah, 'come for a long walk in the woods, my dear boy'.... :brrr:

SB is nowere near sinister enough, we don't get any sense of his ordeal, his desperation, nor of the extent to which the wizarding world is terrified of him.

The portrait isn't awful, but in the book, there are some *great* descriptions of the cold emptiness in SB's eyes, his 'skull-like' features, the extent to which he's become sub/inhuman.

And what we get in the portrait/film is a man growling alot.. but i'm almost certainly alot more invested in this than most people.

Some nice slashy touches: 'Arguing like a married couple'/Sirius' attempt to get through to Remus. (I'd still say that SB/SS makes for more interesting fics, meself...)
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
21:44 / 08.06.04
there's the scene in which he appears in the boy's bedroom, standing over Ron with a knife, and slashes up his bedcurtains (I was so disappointed they left that out - it was the scene I was most looking forward to seeing on film, perhaps they shot it but it was too scary intense for the kiddies

Agreed. Ron waking to see SB looming over him/the slashed drapes = great, really chilling scene. I thought we were going to get that when we see Harry in bed... was really disappointed that what we got was the the map/Pettigrew scene.

It feels quite stripped-down, which in general is a good thing, but I think we could have done with a little more time and space for the characters to develop, especially Black.
 
 
wicker woman
07:48 / 09.06.04
One minor quibble, only because it was my favorite ending in the entire HP saga, I miss Black signing Harry's permission slip. Unless I'm mistaken and that happens in Goblet.

Nope, you weren't mistaken... which brings to mind another dissapointing thing that got left out. Sirius delivers a letter to Harry while he's on the train on the way home at the end of Azkaban by means of Pigiwidgeon, the owl he got Ron to replace Scabbers.
 
 
Cat Chant
10:27 / 09.06.04
My favourite moment in the whole movie was the amazing shot of London rooftops bathed in very orange light as an overground train goes past, rattling Harry's room in the Leaky Cauldron: amazing for a number of reasons. The first because it contradicts the way I'd always imagined Potter getting the train to Hogwarts: all jolly train-boarding and waving to family and stuff... Even though I know he gets that later, it was just a very powerful moment. He's very alone at that point, but it's a good kind of alone as well as a scary kind. Because he's alone in the big city of London, which is scary, but is crucially not suburban petty bourgeois hell with Uncle NotMonty... I dunno, something about it really struck a chord - that sense of being a kid in the adult world too early, and also being in a 'mundane' world which is just as weird as Hogwarts and all the magic stuff in its own way.

Flyboy, that made me get a lump in my throat. And also make me realize that one of the reasons I really, really like this movie is because it's the most fanficcy of the films so far - and, in particular, because one of the things I do in my own HP fic is to reintroduce "Muggle London", because I think it's an element that's crucial for understanding Harry and the way his world works, in precisely the way you outlined, and it's missing from the books.
 
 
Ex
11:39 / 09.06.04
And what we get in the portrait/film is a man growling alot.. but i'm almost certainly alot more invested in this than most people.

Nah, I was feeling a marked lack of underlying menace with Sirius also.
It broke down for me just after the big shack shout-off (Thewlis shouting! Oldman shouting! Sudden Spall!). Black's spent half an hour hopping around like Python's ex-leper in a torn shirt and full-body tatoos, and suddenly he's standing serenely with Harry having a paternal chinwag: "I don't know if anyone told you, but I'm your Godfather, and if you need anywhere to hang out, y'know..."
Were I Harry, be the Dursleys everso beastly, I think I would have said, "Not on your hairy nelly, you jumpy shouty dogman..." Or maybe just, "You don't have a fucking house."

Thewlis as Mr Chips ruled. "You have your mother's eyes..." - He was so going in for a snog.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:32 / 09.06.04
So did no-one else, thinking that there was something sinister about Lupin's little chats with Harry, then translate that into the suspicion that he was evil, and possibly the person who really betrayed the Potter parents? I found myself locating in his character the menace which was, as has been said, slightly missing from Sirius. In fact I even thought he might have been secretly Magn - I mean, Peter Pettigrew all along, or in league with him - the way Thewlis says "That's not possible" is nice and ambiguous and unsettling as well as unsettled.

Deva - reading what I wrote again, I realise I missed out the thing I liked best about that shot, which was the actual structure of it - a pan back from the view through the window, so that Harry standing in the window is visible before the walls surrounding it are. I was also going to mention that the film is full of shots that zoom in through windows to get to Harry: see also the great, great opening zoom which goes in through the Warner Bros logo and then through his bedroom window, or the shots that go through the glass of the Hogwarts clockface (the one that springs to mind is when it's all iced up), which is of course also very neat because it keeps foreshadowing the time-meddling later on. In at least one of these shots, the glass seems to ripple as we pass through, which as bengali says, really creates the effect that the HP world is "liquidy"... Which works very well, although I can't articulate why.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:29 / 09.06.04
Thewlis as Mr Chips ruled. "You have your mother's eyes..." - He was so going in for a snog.

god yes. Is it my slash-filled head, or does he *actually say* something like 'you have your mothers eyes [....] she was beautiful'....

And Draco blowing that note to Harry. In what way does it *not* look like he's blowing a kiss? Hmmm? It's filmed incredibly sweetly, time slows slightly, we get a held shot of Malfoy's face...

'you just put your lips together'...

and Deva, I'd agree on the 'ficcyness' of it, perhaps because rather than a boring translation, what AC does is select what interests him and adds emphasis/expansion/his own voice to the existing story....
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:41 / 09.06.04

god yes. Is it my slash-filled head, or does he *actually say* something like 'you have your mothers eyes [....] she was beautiful'....


Certainly that confirmed in my mind that Lupin and Pottermum were doing it. Not necessarily after she started seeing Potterdad, but certainly beforehand. I bet he organised the stag night (get it?) to coincide with a werewolf weekend...
 
 
Mourne Kransky
17:04 / 09.06.04
Forget the Director's Cut, what we needed was an 18 certificate PoA. That would really have kicked ass.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:40 / 09.06.04
Aw man, Lupin and Mrs. Potter were so not fucking. You've never had a friend who was totally there for you when you were strung out on being a werewolf, all being self-destructive, and no one wanted to have anything to do with you? Just because someone is helping someone out doesn't mean they're physically jonesing for each other. I really loved the implication in that scene. I visualized Mrs. Potter tending to a sick Lupin, maybe cooking up some of that potion for him, when his young and impetuous male friends couldn't be bothered.

I'm quite sure he was in love with her though. Perhaps he (or both of them) managed some level of self control, the bane of the slash fiction writer.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:41 / 09.06.04
Also, Draco's doodle was my favorite special effect in the film.
 
 
grant
18:23 / 09.06.04
(Oh, and as an aside, a friend of mine spotted Alan Rickman having dinner with David Cronenberg here in Toronto last week - possible collab in the works?)

I don't think they've worked together before, so this could well be discussion of an upcoming project.

Heheh.

Cronenberg does the fifth book?

That would SO rock....

Although he's got two different projects coming up, one of which is set in London, so let's call it a long shot.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:09 / 09.06.04
Perhaps he (or both of them) managed some level of self control, the bane of the slash fiction writer.

You have so much to learn, kidult. Let us introduce you to our little friend, Angst...
 
 
Cat Chant
09:54 / 10.06.04
Um, I think you'll find that the bane of the slash writer is het. Hence, Remus/Lily = ewwww. Anyway, as the movie clearly shows, Lupin and Black were doing it: Lupin's "your mother's eyes" speech was the "Lily helped me come to terms with my sexuality" speech, in counterpoint to the "Now I must resign before the homophobic parents start writing in" speech.

(The book, in conjunction with Penix, by the way, clearly demonstrates that James did it with Snape, once, then overreacted [because he was in love with Sirius and Sirius was hung up on being a straight boy], and hence [a] started the bad campaign of evil bullying and [b] hastily married Lily. No-one was, in fact, doing it with Lily. Except possibly one of the other girls who were presumably at Hogwarts at the time but didn't have any plots because Rowling doesn't like giving plots to girls.*)

*And before you say "Ginny" - lying unconscious in a dungeon waiting to be rescued is not a plot.

Incidentally, is it okay to have a crush on Daniel Radcliffe yet? Ever since I heard that his favourite bands are the Clash and the Sex Pistols - and that when he had to get his angry on for Azkaban he would go into his dressing room and listen to Rage Against the Machine - I have wanted him to ask me to the prom.
 
 
Logos
01:40 / 14.06.04
By the way, what was the jazz record playing in the boggart scene?

I loved this movie. Cuaron put a lot of really neat subtext all over the place. Nice details like the guy from Stone Roses reading "A Brief History of Time", and the Albrecht Durer mongram on the headsman's axe. (Or was it an Ac, for Cuaron?)
 
 
Scrubb is on a downward spiral
13:09 / 14.06.04
By the way, what was the jazz record playing in the boggart scene?

The entire score, jazz and all, is John Williams again, and the boggart piece is called (I think) "Monster Books and Boggarts". Kind of depressing that Williams is capable of writing the zippy cool stuff that was in this film, but still gets paid for churning out the portentious "trumpetytrumpetyTRUMPETY,VIOLLIIIINNNNSSS!!"
 
 
John Brown
01:56 / 15.06.04
Speaking of the jazz record ... I thought that scene would have been much better if the record had remained the only music, instead of cutting to typical John-Williams-this-is-a-scary-part stuff.

Obviously the best of the movies so far. A little rushed in places. And unfortunately, whenever Hermione wept or the boys emoted, my friends laughed, and I cringed. The kids are OK actors, the material's just a little too overwrought at times. Still, it's too bad CuarĂ³n isn't directing all of them.
 
 
grant
15:48 / 15.06.04
By the way, am I just slow on the uptake, or has no one previously mentioned that Dave McKean was a "conceptual artist" for this?

Yeah, I sat through all the credits.

I think there was a separate credit for the jazz piece, but I didn't see who wrote it -- I did notice that for some of the stuff, they credited a period music ensemble, meaning that some of the songs (I'm guessing the creepy choral stuff) used antique instruments.

---

Oh, and it was really weird seeing Gambon as Dumbledore in this, since I just recently watched The Singing Detective for the first time, on DVD. Those eyes.... Is he right, or is he right?
 
 
grant
16:12 / 15.06.04
Yeah, the IMDb soundtrack listing gives me a song by John Williams (the “Winters’ Spell” one) and this: "La Cumparsita"
Written by Gerardo Matos Rodriguez
Performed by Alfred House Orchestra
Courtesy of Laserlight
By Arrangement with Source/Q

Which I think is the jazz number.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
21:39 / 15.06.04
creates the effect that the HP world is "liquidy"... Which works very well, although I can't articulate why.

Been thinking about this, and perhaps it's because, along with camera angles, sound, and many other elements of design, the overall effect is a much more immersive on than Columbus' feeble efforts, which feel like reading a moving picture book.

And that, having thrown us in, Cuaron and co give us a sense of a world which from physical laws up, operates in a very alien way.

It's a magical world because magic inhabits every atom of it, making it superficially reminiscent of our world, but actually nothing like it. We get an effect similar to the extreme culture shock of visiting a country very different to your own.

Thankfully, for Cuaron, potraying a magical world does *Not* equal pointy hats.

A world which seems to work very differently to ours in space and time is a disorienting place to be. There were points that were reminiscient of a rollercoaster/hallucinogenic trip in this sense...

oh and Haus: ewww, Remus gets in Harry perfection, the things he found attractive about Lily but in a boy package. I read that as his having deeply loved Lily for her support/kindness, but not in any physical way....
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:16 / 17.06.04
Lee Ingleby from Spaced! Ian Brown! Hot shit!

Production values were excellent, really liked this new Hogwarts, even though I believe it doesn't remotelly tally with what we've seen before in the previous movies (I don't think they've been quite so explicit with a Wales/Scotland hilly location have they?) but I only watched them once so can't remember. I just love there being steps anywhere, a much useful device seeing as you've got children acting against adults, it really helps thematically to set them apart. But lovely lovely cinematography, helped make up for the story deficiencies.

How cruel of them to film through the fortnight that Rupert Grint was going through puberty. Best moments, Harry playing with his wand in the opening minutes, then the first scene with Malfoy in it. Malfoy is so sizing him up. He wants him now. And as Plums has said elsewhere, the werewolf-as-metaphor-for-slightly-dated-perception-of-homosexuality is very well done here, especially as Thewlis doesn't use the 'w' word once.

But, and this is probably a book fault rather than a film fault, what has Lupin done to piss Dumbledore off? Dumbledore is willing to go to the wall for Harry, Hermione, Ron or Hagrid, even Sirius, counselling Harry and Hermione on a course that this time deliberately puts them in danger to rescue Sirius and the Hypogriff. Lupin meanwhile is allowed to roam wild where 'he's a danger to anyone, including himself' and is then for some reason expelled at the end of term, despite the fact that no-one, like Malfoy, need be any the wiser as to his condition. Snape already knows he's a werewolf, so does he report him out of spite for what goes on in the Shrieking Shack? And like I said, Dumbledore finds a way out for his 'special' friends. When you've got dangerous potions being concocted, those things that turn people to stone in film two and Quidditch, which can kill people, it seems a bit farcical that people get so concerned with a hypogriff stamping on the arm of someone who doesn't follow the rules, but I suppose we have to believe it's a deliberate overreaction just because it's Malfoy's father.

The three leads were differing degrees of annoying this time, though to be fair Rupert didn't have anything to do at all. Emma Watson was at the best of all three movies so far. And Daniel Radcliffe just act upset. Angry yes, crying, no. And poor, poor Tom Felton. After the glories of the last film Draco Malfoy, one-dimensional character that he is really deserved better than this. Somehow the script managed to turn him sub-one dimensional, he's not even there to bully and obstruct our heroes any more, he turns up, someone hurts him, he leaves. Maybe for film 4 they should just throw the book out the window and claimed he left to join the Chalet School or something.

But after a promising start the story in this film just sucked. Whereas for all her faults Rowling is very good at writing a story to her books, this film harked back to the first one, going for the key events rather than any sense of time passing, for all the use of the Whomping Willow to denote time going by, one minute they're hip deep in snow, the next it's not, but it all feels like it could have happened over a couple of weeks. And again, I was surprised that there's no real sense of danger to Harry, but because we don't get the idea that there is real time passing so there's no build up to the threat.

Although Sirius' first appearence was great I wasn't too impressed by Gary Oldman as much as I thought I was going to be. He didn't seem to be making much of an effort, considering some of his films that might not be a bad thing but Black in the book is almost wraithlike himself, surviving mainly on willpower and looking in bad enough shape to scare people, film Sirius looks just like... Gary Oldman with unbrushed hair and beard. I thought David Thewlis was the star performer this time round, investing his character with so much pathos that it was only when he was in danger that I was really concerned.

And the thing with the stag Patronus at the water, if you're going to ignore the whole aspect of the four Animaguses, why bother first time round with showing the Stag Patronus form? If you're going to still keep the Stag Patronus in anyway, then the second time round you can't just ignore it, as they did here. In this scene we have the slightly farcical situation that Harry 1 is almost killed by the Dementors, they are driven off by someone he doesn't see and, when he becomes aware of him he looks like a brilliant white stag. Yet for no reason at all that we are given on film, Harry 1 thinks this is his Dad. In the book it makes much more sense, but here there's nothing to back up the dialogue. It might have been better if they'd dropped the Animagus element and had Harry 1 looking at Harry 2, who's been morphed to look a bit older or something.

So maybe Harry Potter will be like Star Trek movies, each odd-numbered episode is shit.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:19 / 17.06.04
Other than the fact they'd take too long to make, am I really the only person here who thinks Harry potter would work best as a translation to TV series (6 to 8 episodes for the first three books) rather than films?
 
 
Ex
18:38 / 17.06.04
Yet for no reason at all that we are given on film, Harry 1 thinks this is his Dad. In the book it makes much more sense, but here there's nothing to back up the dialogue.

And when he finds out that he didn't actually see his Dead Dad (Dude), he's got a grin a mile wide. "Hermione! Turns out it wasn't my Dad, it was me all along! Wheeee!" I know he's riding a hippogriff, and it would be hard to feel mopey, and he's probably thrilled that he can fight off the floppy skirts on sticks, but I'd have been a little more upset, I think.
 
 
Cat Chant
18:03 / 19.06.04
maybe Harry Potter will be like Star Trek movies, each odd-numbered episode is shit

Ooh. I thought it worked on the inverse-Trek principle, since only the odd-numbered books give Snape anything to do. And really, it's all about the Rickman.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
12:31 / 20.06.04
More things to love: that Cornelius Fudge's office/place is in exactly the same house as Bridget Jones lives in (actually a rather good pub at London Bridge).

The Toad Choir! I remember seeing them foreshadowed in the trailer and it was the first thing that gave me hope that the film wouldn't be sucktastic. It's just not rhe sort of thing that Chris Columbus would even think of doing but is an amazing visual shortcut letting us know we're in *another place now*.
 
 
osymandus
21:37 / 20.06.04
Malfoy is so sizing him up. He wants him now. And as Plums has said elsewhere, the werewolf-as-metaphor-for-slightly-dated-perception-of-homosexuality is very well done here, especially as Thewlis doesn't use the 'w' word once.


I noticed this as well but thought Rowling was mearly applying this to her world and rules, and just keeping the obviously real danager (as opposed to the the nosensical one of homophobia) of someone who turns into a 7ft tall buzzsaw once a month, and playing it out by the conservitives of her world.

Also Dumbldore dosnt reject Lupin in anyway , its Lupins decission not to accept Dumbledores help (also remember the social politics of the Prue bloods and supports of Voldermont here !). It becomes clearler in 4 & 5 as to why this occurs.
 
 
Multiple Man
17:20 / 23.06.04
Lupin totally wanted to pork Harry. That is all.
 
 
Cat Chant
08:30 / 06.07.04
Just found out that Cuaron has gone on record as saying he thinks Lupin is gay, which makes me very happy. Someone sent me this quote from an interview:

Even if they're wizards, ultimately their emotions are very human. And from the get-go, we established that relationship with the actors. For instance, Professor Lupin, played by David Thewlis...we said that he's your favorite gay uncle that does smack."

And although I haven't been able to find the interview online, googling for "Cuaron gay Lupin" gets a lot of indignant fan rants ("Nooo! Lupin is nice and gays are icky!! Ergo it is scientific fact and logic that Lupin cannot be gay!!!"). So I am happy. Wonder if JKR is going to respond?
 
 
Ex
13:22 / 06.07.04
An mp3 of the interview should be here:
http://www.homepage.mac.com/ixchelmala/Elvis_Mitchell_hosts_Cuaron.mp3
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:09 / 06.07.04
wow. That makes me sooooo happy. And i can see the smacky side to remus, for sure... would make alot of sense in some ways...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:33 / 06.07.04
Warrrgghhh. That interview suggests that PotterIV is to be directed by Mike Newell.

Nooooooooo. Someone tell me it ain't true.
 
 
Tamayyurt
16:37 / 06.07.04
Who's Mike Newell, what has he done, and why does he scare you so?
 
  

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