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Canadians, explain yourselves.

 
  

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moriarty
19:18 / 29.05.04
You respect animators. I like that in a nation.

Where's my parade?

To be more specific, I'm wondering about things like racism and the pervasive anti-intellectual atmosphere I encounter down here. I've heard that neither are as common in the Great White North, but I have no direct testimony.

Like anything else, it depends largely on who you ask and where they're from. I could count on two hands the number of families that were visible minorities in my hometown. I lived on the border, and the difference between the two nations was incredibly pronounced, especially in their large proportion of various ethnicities as compared to Canada. It's pure speculation, but with such low numbers in Canada it's easy to mistake a lack of concern over the threat of other cultures as a lack of racism. I think Canada seems less racist because we don't have as many chances to be, not necessarily because we're better people. Take a trip up to North Bay or further and you'll find plenty racism, largely because the native population is so pervasive that the different cultures can't help rubbing shoulders. While this may not necessarily apply to the larger cities, well, Toronto isn't fucking Canada, thanks. And so far as many of my non-whitebread friends here in Ottawa are concerned, all the major cities of Canada are indeed pretty whitewashed, including Hogtown. Not to lay a smackdown on Toronto, which is a really wonderful city, but it's not all that a bag of poutine.

(Note: I fucking hate Rush)

You name Sarah McLachlan and Barenakedladies as positives and Rush as a negative? What are you, Bizarro Canadian? Lakeside Park rules! I'll never forgive you!

Wow, that's worth like 1700 apologies up here.

I forgive you.

Yes, it actually is that fucking cold here in the winter.

No, really. You'll pray for death.

...far more affordable education

Right on!

...knowing a little French is helpful.

Absolutely true, but you can get by without. Hell, you can get by without English, if you want.

Terrifyingly ready to wear shorts in sub-zero temperatures.

That confuses even me, but I still love it.

It doesn't actually get cold here and we DON'T say eh thats them east coasters.

I don't know which I'd rather have to deal with, extreme cold or the near-constant rain. And I'm willing to bet a loonie (US $.00023) that you and yours do say "eh" but are in denial. All kidding aside, my brothers tell me your coast is a lovely place to live.

I refuse to believe Canadians are better looking.

I am, in that ruggedly handsome lumberjack kind of way.

...something i really like about canada is the walk lights (for crosswalks) are very jaunty. here in the states, the figures who are walking are just walking, but in canada, it's almost like they're skanking, or something. very canadian, i think, cos i find so many canadians to be sunny.

You're the best. Pickitup.

Americans, beware. There is an anti-Americanism here in Canada that I personally find embarassing. Americans are often mocked as ignorant, violent thugs.

I seriously fucking hate that about this country. Let it go. We've got to stop defining ourselves by how great we allegedly are in comparison to our neighbours. That kind of thinking ends up distracting us from what problems we actually have and how we can make our society better. Fuck being just better than. I want Canada to be fucking fabulous on any terms.

(I'm not going to apologize for sneering at Quebec license plates, though -- those that make it this far south ((Florida)) drive like fatigued barbarians.)

You know, you live in Canada South. I mean, you're practically a citizen. Those are your people driving those cars, man.

So, Tampa beat Calgary last night, 4-1.

For a second I thought you were talking about the first game of the series, with Calgary whumping Tampa by the same margin. Oh well, no matter which team makes it, Canada wins. See "Florida is the 11th Canadian Province" comment above.

(And might hit me with sticks.)

Let's you and I get together for a friendly game of Canada's first offical sport, lacrosse. Shirts vs. skins.

This isn't a criticism, but don't all Canadians drink like fish?

Me and all my straightedge pals might disagree. I've never had an alcoholic beverage, though I am strangely fascinated by beer culture.

Our official system of measurement is Metric. In practise, we tend to measure many things using Imperial, such as our height in feet and out weight in pounds.

Sine's point form recommendations are awesome and are the little important things most Canadians probably wouldn't realize that they should warn Americans about.

...growing up outside detroit as i did, windsor was only about 45 minutes away. all the kids would go there to drink. yee-haw, good times.

Even in Ontario you have 18 year olds crossing the provincial border to Quebec for the beers. I've heard from certain people in some states along the border that Canada is a great destination for fully nude strip clubs, meaning there are strip clubs out there somewhere that are only semi-nude. What the fuck is the point of that? Burlesque or the full thing; there is no middle ground.
 
 
phrankphutta
21:54 / 29.05.04
Rush would probably be a great band if that little munchkin Geddy Lee would keep his mouth shut. Not only does he sound like a poor Bruce Dickinson impression on helium, but his lyrics are 7th grade-level enviro-shite.

Barenaked Ladies, on the other hand, are a bunch of overweight nerds who write offbeat songs, often making full use of three-or-more-part harmony. I was once like you, I hated them too, but then I started to appreciate the beauty of thier craft.
 
 
lekvar
23:07 / 29.05.04
This has been great so far. Now to ratchet it up a notch. How is the climate up there regarding:

  • job market/unemployment? Unemployment services? I have no plans on moving up just to sponge off the dole, but shit happens sometimes. My girlfriend has been unemployed for nealy nine months and was denied unemployment. To top it off there's pracctically no services for the unemployed here (placement, retraining, etc.).

  • unions? There's a growing suspicion here that unions are the source of all evil, despite the fact that we can thank them for niceties such as a 40 hour work week and workplaces that don't lead directly to slow, debilitating death.

  • housing? I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, so the prospect that a person can actually afford to rent/own more than a closet seems like fairies and unicorns.

  • organic produce? Yup, I'm a granola-muncher.


I've studied the statistics available, but anyone can bend numbers to fit their point of view.

Damn, I'd completely forgotten about lacrosse!

Regarding US beer vs. Canadian beer, you can't beat Anchor Steam. NO ONE can beat Anchor Steam. It's the food of the Gods, I tell you. But feel free to recommend some of your local delicasies and I'll give 'em a try.

Regarding visible minorities and their effect on the racism of the overall population, I was born and raised in an area with a large Mexican population and a non-existant black population. The morons that thought such things mattered hated both groups, regardless of their visibility. The presence of the ethnicities in question was not a prerequisite. Which is to say nothing of the arab/persian bashing that goes on these days...

Thankfully I live in a much more enlightened area now, but it is an enlightened chunk of a nation I feel is still, as a whole, pathetically backwards.
 
 
sine
02:26 / 30.05.04
All these questions depend seriously on where exactly you plan to go...but broadly...

job market/unemployment? Unemployment services?

Like the rest of the climate, cold. Jobs are not great, government PR on job creation aside. Depends on your field really...this is a garbage time for code monkeys, but there are a few fields that do pretty well...what is your line?

As for the Dole, good luck. In my experience, if you have a limb and enough braincells left to twitch it, you won't be eligible. Unemployment (or, as they call it, employment insurance) is pretty reliable, but obviously doesn't apply to contract work etc. Pay in, draw out. Its a comfy buffer zone nevertheless.

unions?

People here are pretty pissed with unions a lot of the time too, this being a popular warhorse for conservative grandstanding. There are few groups that take consistent flak...teachers are likely foremost. There have been pretty big concessions on raises and such from the various unions to deal with the current tremors of economic Ragnarok, but when one of the big hydra-headed unions gets mad, people generally listen even while they bitch.


housing?

This is so location-dependent, obviously. Houses in Toronto are beyond the buying power of all but the upper echelon, professionals and the like. On the far end, a friend of mine just bough a three bedroom house in a community about two hours north of Toronto for $75 000, Canadian money, which is peanuts in greenbacks.

(Did you know our money is all different colours? Our only green bill is the 20. And we don't even have bills for 1 and 2...they're coins [the "loonie" and "two-nie" respectively. Christ, it sounds so corny when I'm saying it in front of everyone else in the world community. It sounds like I'm making it up. "Two-nie"? That's fucking stupid. I pushed for "Doubloon". Clever, huh? Anyway...)

organic produce?

Again, geographically sensitive, but assuming you're in a decently-sized urban centre, no problem.

Damn, I'd completely forgotten about lacrosse!

Yes. Inexplicably, our national sport. Since I've never played lacrosse or hockey, the outrage is sort of lost on me. By the by: yes, if populist parties come to power in Parliament, and the then government of Canada tests my DNA and discovers I've never played hockey, I will be exiled to an ice floe and left to starve as an act of mercy. Fair warning to you.

To clear things up (if it is required): I neither love nor hate "Americans". I've motorcycled all 48 mainland states (no freak states for me) and find Americans consistently more polite and friendlier during my transcontinental journeys than their Canadian counterparts. I love your smokes, your food, your accents, your highways and your skies. I hate your government, your gun laws, your television, and your beer. The people I judge on case to case basis.

However, the warnings you'll find in this thread are accurate. Canada is the ground-zero of knee-jerk anti-Americanism, France notwithstanding. Worse, Canadians tend to be hypocrites about it; at least the French bother to have seperate media and such. We eat at the same military-industrial-entertainment trough up here as down there.

Come to think of it, I like Euro-beer best.
 
 
phrankphutta
03:03 / 30.05.04
job market/unemployment? Unemployment services?

Speaking only from personal experience, I've moved around quite a few times and haven't went more than a few weeks without a job. As far as I can tell, if you want a job bad enough, you can find work.

unions?

As hard as it may be to believe, we too have unions! I would guess that they're probably just as common as they are in the US, and people probably argue about thier virtues just the same. Good God man, we're not cavemen.

housing?

Depends where you plan on living. Are you considering any specific province(s)?

organic produce?

There are only two different foods available here: Bacon and Donuts.

Flames, eh?
 
 
lekvar
03:57 / 30.05.04
phrankphutta, I'm sorry for any misunderstanding, I was asking if unions were respected rather than if they existed. I mean, the North Pole is your territory, right? Isn't Santa one of your nationals? I've heard terrible things about the working conditions in the Elf Mines...
 
 
phrankphutta
04:14 / 30.05.04
I mean, the North Pole is your territory, right?

A common misconception. Y'see...



*The accompanying figure shows the path of the North Magnetic Pole since its discovery in 1831 to the last observed position in 2001. During the last century the Pole has moved a remarkable 1100 km. What is more, since about 1970 the NMP has accelerated and is now moving at more than 40 km per year. If the NMP maintains its present speed and direction it will reach Siberia in about 50 years. Such an extrapolation is, however, tenuous. It is quite possible that the Pole will veer from its present course, and it is also possible that the pole will slow down sometime in the next half century.

*from Natural Resources Canada
 
 
lekvar
04:20 / 30.05.04
So the Pole is in international waters now? No wonder the Jolly Fat Man continues to flaunt his illegal labor practices!
 
 
phrankphutta
04:20 / 30.05.04


REASON #298374:
In Canada, even the wildlife is mellow.
 
 
the cat's iao
09:43 / 30.05.04
something i don't like about canada is that you have to go to special stores to get alcohol, and they close at 9pm. 9pm!

Hmm, not around these prairie parts, eh? Here in Cowtown, home of the Greatest Outdoor Show on Earth, where men and woman of various colour and creed drive large SUVs or sleek sporty cars, or even the biggest gas guzzling trucks trucks (for here in Cowtown, where the Sad hosts the Trage, it is every white bread’s privilege to live off the black gold buried in the land, and it is the privilege of some whitey white breads, and the rest of our 13% visible minorities to some how earn a living serving those who live off the bowels of the land—so of course not everyone here drives the shiniest new spiffy vehicles, eh?); here in Cowtown, where the Red Mile Surges as people of all ethnic groups clad in spirit form the C of rouge, and where the flame burns bright when the red light is a flight, and the fumes of the bowels of the land burn atop what used to be the city’s tallest tower (but now big business builds higher, the banker’s halls mirror the twin trade, only much smaller…well…and still standing): well here my friends, you can buy booze at “special stores” (we here call them “Liquor Stores”) that are located on every other corner—it sometimes seems—and some even stay open ‘till 2:00 am—‘casue here in Cowtown we’re our country’s heaviest drinkers, eh?

But, I don’t drink too often myself, eh?

also don't forget about their crazy anti-smoking warnings on their weird-shaped cigarette packs, replete w/pics of diseased lungs

Some people are most offended by the terrible picture of what smoking can do to your teeth. So much so, some will often desire a package with a different label and warning—perhaps the one about how smoking kills babies. But not me: I don’t care what sort of warning or picture is on the package, eh?

Heh, on aboot the Canadian winter, eh (note, I don’t actually ever say “aboot,”)? Here on the prairies, in Cowtown, you can wait for the C-train in forty below weather (yes, that’s Celsius), and yes, you have to get out of bed and go to work. But there’s jobs for everybody here in Cowtown—it’s old King Ralph’s “Alberta Advantage”—at least that’s what some would say, anyway (of course, many of the jobs here are labour or service, at least the one’s that seem ready available—skilled and unskilled, naturally): but I see people living on the streets, sleeping in parks, collecting bottles, begging for change. So yes, there are societal problems here that extend from my own neighbourhood, into relations with our Aboriginal people, up to our politicians, and so on and so forth. Kinda’ like other places, but more often than not we don’t shoot one and other over it, eh?

‘Cause we’re the “peace keepers”, eh?

From my awfully small point of view Canada seems like an all right place to live. Perhaps a little better than many other places I could find myself if I was someone else—it’s all relative, eh?

Don’t forget Skinny Puppy, although I don’t listen to them so much anymore, and nomeansno are pretty kickass. And years ago—back in the days of the Deer—some friends and I missed our chance, by fleeting moments, to fight the Barenaked Ladies. They were playing the lounge at the RDC and had popped into one of the few downtown haunts. That was back before they were big. Well, I guess they’ve always been big, but I mean before they became somewhat popular, eh?

G’day.
 
 
phrankphutta
17:57 / 30.05.04
Your Barenaked Ladies anecdote prompted the following:

Brushing Shoulders With Famous Canadians

1 - Four or five years ago, I worked at a restaurant in Saskatoon that hired only artist/musician-types, so everyone who worked there was in some kind of band...Anyway, this one guy's band was marginally popular in Saskatoon, and I recall asking him one Friday what his plans were for the weekend:

"We're openeing for some band called Nickelback. Who the hell is Nickelback, anyway? They should be opening for us."

I lost contact with my co-workers after I found work elsewhere, but I ran into this particular guy a few months ago, and asked him how the band was going. He must have forgotten that I worked alongside him during the gig, because he was bragging about how they "opened for Nickelback a few years ago"

2 - One summer I spotted that fool Raine Maida from Our Lady Peace (the lead singer/tortured artist one) with his girlfriend, Chantal Kreviazuk (Canadian songstress, see: Armageddon Soundtrack) , in a bookstore. Being a complete dick, I quickly formulated a plan. I walked up and said "Hey! I'm a huge fan...can I bother you for your autograph?"

Raine kinda rolled his eyes, let out a sigh, and reached for my pen. I pulled it out of his reach and said:

"Actually dude, I was talking to her."

3 - My buddy's dad kicked the shit out of Burton Cummings way back in the '70s because he hit a girl or something. (<----possibly bullshit)
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
06:38 / 31.05.04
Sparkle, having grown up in London, Ontario, with a population of 330,000 (I don't count St.Thomas eh!), I absolutely refuse to believe that it has a huge Arab population. Maybe it looks like that because when they stand out so much against the pale-skinned masses, an optical illusion occurs and they multiply; or maybe you and your friends spend too much time at Mac's Milk (are there any Mac's around anymore? Beckers? 7-11 maybe?).

London, Ontario is known as the WASP Capital of Canada, and it is so true it makes me ache. When I first moved to Toronto I felt like a visible minority, and for the first week I wandered in a anxious cloud of "which brown or yellow person is going to want something from me next?!?" My high school had about 5 asian kids and 10 black kids out of 800. And 4 arabic that I can remember.

Grant, good on the statistics findin'. There's definitely a much larger black population in the U.S., and of course the hispanic group, too. When Canadians say multicultural, they generally mean Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal -- all of which are stunningly mixed with peoples from all over. I love the fact that in TO you've got falafel joints, Italian ice cream, an Ethiopian restaurant, 2 sushi places, a Hungarian deli, an Irish pub and a Thai restaurant all on the same block. I can only really speak for TO, but there's very little racial hostility -- even the silent kind you find in smaller towns; nobody seems to feel like they were there first or that they have a right to be there more than anyone else.
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
07:07 / 31.05.04
Oh, and if you're into organic, you can get it delivered to your door. I think Vancouver might be the organic capital of the country, but I'm only basing that on the granolas I know who came from there. In my hometown you couldn't even find yogurt in the late 70s, but now pretty much any urban space in Ontario has its requisite well-stocked organic markets. Mind, if you're from the Bay area, it might seem like we've got less of what you need. I would like you to now take a moment and say a crunchy prayer to the gods of tofu for poor me up in Helsinki. The organic/vegetarian situation is comparatively dire in Europe, so I guess it's all relative.

The employment/unemployment situation depends on your line of work, as usual. Printing and graphic design is very strong indeed -- and of course highly competitive, but if you've got a good portfolio... it's always been a matter of the right place at the right time. As a code monkey and humanities student, I've never had a problem finding work, although some of it has been in evil nationwide bookstore chains.

Housing. Montreal's market is much better than Toronto's for relatively cheap housing. There are some absolute firetraps (I lived in a few) near the University, and students and immigrants are often exploited because of their lack of apartment know-how in Canada. Having said that, there are lots of beautiful old houses in the cities. I've only been a renter, and I paid ridiculously low rent ($310) for a shared place with my mates. Most of my friends, just a few years out of university and not making a lot of money, are paying 5 or 600 for a half-decent place. Toronto rents are high for Canadian standards... whatever that might mean. My brother pays peanuts for his flat in London (Ontario), and it's right downtown.

If you like restaurants, it's hard to beat Toronto. And probably Montreal, too. Both cities are overcrowded with artists, meaning there's always a lot of stuff going on. For an idea, check out NOW Magazine, the Toronto weekly rag with all the listings and Dan Savage and whatnot. I grew up in London, moved to Toronto for university, and now live in Finland but I miss the hell out of TO. Some cities grab some people and not others, but I've never come across the Toronto vibe anywhere else, and I love it to pieces. Montreal, however, has better architecture, and Vancouver is more laid-back, has ocean views, and better drugs. You also might see Douglas Coupland working in a bookstore.

As for the anti-americanism... it's knee-jerk and it's idiotic; we do feel a little out of the limelight, and so it gives the purest pleasure to take the piss out of U.S. citizens: "I said let's go to Timmy's and get a double double, and he said 'Uh, my wife and I don't swing that way.'" Or "she thought Toronto was the capital! What an idiot!" But truly, the moment you introduce yourself, you won't get any sass. You'll just be another immigrant, like everyone else and their dog. I suspect, deep down, Canadians really want to be liked by Americans, and just paid attention to.
 
 
grant
20:43 / 01.06.04
Rush would probably be a great band if that little munchkin Geddy Lee would keep his mouth shut. Not only does he sound like a poor Bruce Dickinson impression on helium, but his lyrics are 7th grade-level enviro-shite.



Dude! Geddy sings the words, but everybody knows Neal writes them!

----

On the 11th province:
I now feel like a piece of meat being fought over by two hungry dogs, New York City and the nation of Canada.

You bastards!

-----

On lacrosse:
Weird. I always thought it was just a Palm Beach prep school thing. My college roommate and his buddies were into lacrosse.
 
 
Pants Payroll
01:34 / 02.06.04
Dude! Geddy sings the words, but everybody knows Neal writes them!

And Geddy was making records for about 10 years before Bruce joined Maiden...
 
 
phrankphutta
04:05 / 02.06.04
Details, schmetails.

It's shite nonetheless.
 
 
phrankphutta
04:06 / 02.06.04
...and so is Maiden.

It's all cheese.
 
 
Topper
13:59 / 02.06.04
Great thread everyone. I'm interested in two places - Vancouver and Montreal. Say I want to move to one of these places for the summer. Some more specifics for a US citizen:

How is the cost of living for these two cities?

Am I allowed to get a job or work permit?

Am I allowed to rent an apartment/flat?

As a US citizen, how long can I remain in Canada?

Quick story - a few years ago a friend and I road tripped to Toronto for the weekend. We walked out of the big mall downtown and my friend asks the passersby "Does anyone know the way to Kensington Market?" Several people pass. He asks again. A guy and a girl hesistate, stop, and the guy says, "We're going that way, c'mon." He ends up playing tour guide to us the rest of the day, taking us to pubs, places off the beaten path, Chinatown, etc. They were an incredibly friendly, generous, laid back couple and they made the weekend for us.

.
 
 
phrankphutta
03:42 / 08.06.04
*ahem*

Brad Richards (MVP)
Vincent Lecavalier
Martin St. Louis
Dave Andreychuk
Cory Sarich
Darryl Sydor
Chris Dingman
Cory Stillman
Tim Taylor
Eric Perrin
Jassen Cullimore
Dan Boyle
Brad Lukowich
Darren Rumble
Nolan Pratt

15/25 players = 60% Canadian



(just let me have it)
 
 
grant
13:52 / 08.06.04
Thunderstruck! Lightning Wins Stanley Cup.

Heheheheh.

Aw, yeah.

Outsourcing is a bitch.
 
 
Saint Keggers
14:59 / 08.06.04
Yeah but we won the soft-wood lumber dispute. (and it seems we're getting Lekvar)
 
 
lekvar
20:32 / 08.06.04
Topper, the Canadian Government website has great resources. My girlfriend and I have been scouring it for info. They have a point raiting system on whethere or not you can emigrate (we both squeeked by), AND the specifics of setting up a work visa. As I recall, you have to work in a field that isn't already saturated and have job offer already. I know people who have gotten travel visas and just "forgotten" to leave and got under-the-table jobs, but that has its drawbacks/risks.

The impressions I got is the government has their arms WIDE open.
 
 
grant
20:48 / 08.06.04
Yeah but we won the soft-wood lumber dispute.

There's that fighting-with-sticks thing again....
 
  

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