BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Breaking, splitting, cracking up.

 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
 
w1rebaby
12:58 / 16.01.05
Grant, that's so sweet.
 
 
imaginary mice
08:38 / 17.01.05
And you can watch it here 24 hours a day.

Grant, if you ever want to do a concept album about Southampton landmarks that remind me of my ex-boyfriend just let me know.

Brilliant song, thanks a lot.
 
 
Ariadne
09:25 / 17.01.05
Wow, Grant, that's great!
 
 
Squirmelia
18:34 / 17.01.05
I am so pleased that the Clocktower has got the recognition it deserves. Great song!
 
 
grant
19:23 / 17.01.05
Well, it was a story that reminded me of my own romantic past, although I don't really have great landmarks like that. Just, mist off Sarasota Bay, or certain city skylines as the sun goes down.

Clocks make good metaphors, too.
 
 
farseer /pokes out an i
03:02 / 18.01.05
Having just broken up with my SO of, hm, 5 years? 6 years? Shite. I was NEVER good at keeping track of time. I guess I have a breakup story to tell, as best as I can remember it. But of course it never starts at the end of the relationship.

About a year and a half, maybe two years into a great (clearly defined, monogomous) relationship, my SO got into a car accident. To make a long story short, my SO suffered from some serious migranes induced from muscles spasms due to the accident, and all the stress relating to it, the totaled car, having to buy a new one while that one was almost paid off, etc. These migranes and muscle spasms induced a series of changes in my SO that were, to put it lightly, stressful for me to deal with also. In essence, my SO stopped (for one reason or another) doing many of the shared acivities we both had enjoyed.

But there was love, and it was powerful between us, and we were both - most of the time- happy. I occasionally got very restless but those times would pass, and we stayed together. I think we stayed together primarily because we were such terrific friends.

Two years of some of my friends commenting about how I didn't seem as happy as before passed, and I usually explained that I didn't want to leave my SO because 1) we were such terrific friends, 2) my SO was injured (both physically and mentally) and I didn't want to abandon my SO during the time of healing, and 3) my SO was waaaaay depressed due to the turn of events. In this period of "not doing the same things together anymore", we both changed a bit, just still kept on liking (and loving) each other.

Time went on, and my SO healed, after finally getting up the self-motivation to seek help and self-heal, but alas my SO had stopped doing much of the stuff we enjoyed doing together, but we still enjoyed each other's company.

So, after about a year of actual healing-time, I experienced a long period of restlessness- which I catagorize mostly as still happy in life, but seeking new things/experiences/change. During this time, my SO and I had talked a few times about breaking things off, as occasionally we both felt we were mostly friends and less lovers.

The opportunity to take some MDMA floated our way, and we took the opportunity to plan to talk about hurting, stressful, unhappy, painful stuff and work it out with each other (our own personal issues) while rolling. So, we did, it was a FABULOUS(!!!!!) experience, and during a period of snuggling, we talked freely about how we had drifted a bit, still loved each other, but were both uncertain of the future together (and more so then "all the future promises is uncertainty"). I think that we both faced, came to terms with, and began to get comfortable with breaking things off, "relationship" wise.

So about a month later, we were snuggling in bed all warm and comfy, and we talked about breaking up. It was a little intimidating to start talking about, but fortune favors the brave . And we decided to sleep on it, to let our subconsiouses work it out a bit, and the next evening we descided that the next step to occur would be for my SO to move out and find a 1:1 near work (we worked at the same place.) My SO was kind enough to let me keep the kitties (two adorable bengals.) We still liked and loved each other, so we split everything up amicable, without a single fight, tear, or any nastiness.

I helped my SO move out, and things were good between us. After about a month more, we talked while driving on some roadtrip about seperating, and what all that meant to both of us. We both agreed we liked each other, and still loved one another, but that the future just didn't seem to contain both of us together, in our respective imaginary futures. So we officially stopped being "together", and we both seemed cool about it.

Waiting for the shit to hit the fan, eh? Sorry, it hasn't. We've had some breakup sex (which is GREAT , BTW, if you've never had any, try it if possible), but it looks like we're both looking at dating other folks. Well, maybe me more then my SO. My former-SO has explained she needs a bit more time to move onto another relationship, and that's cool. I promised to let my former-SO know if I started dating anyone ('cuz of the potential for future breakup sex), and we remain friends. Go to dinner, still snuggle while watching some LOST or Daily Show, still go on motorcycle rides. Strangely, we've been getting along better without the mutual stress of a relationship-that-feels-its-falling-apart between us.

Best thing about remaining friends afterwards? You still have all those shared good times. But it takes two willing participants to break up amicably, and still remain friends. I haven't been so lucky with a few I've dated in the past, as some have stolen shit, tried to OD in my bedroom, lied to apartment managers, changed locks, etc. But this one has a happy ending.
 
 
Lilly Nowhere Late
06:55 / 18.01.05
"I feel like - if you drew a map of all the places I keep my head and my thoughts and my history and my life, a lot of it would be on my bookshelves, a lot of it would be in my diaries and my hard drive, some of it would be in my body, and a fair bit of it would be in her body, and it sucks to have no connection to that any more."

What a touching way to put it.

Having been through every kind of break up discussed here and more and more, I would say only that boredom is not a good reason for a breakup. I would also say that complacency is not a reason to avoid a breakup.

Life is so weird. Funny how we strive to define it. Yet another way that animals(who rarely seem to break up if you check) are superior to humans.

Still, honesty is the best and cheating/lying/sneaking around is truly bad.

Perhaps sometimes loyalty should figure further into the equation?

Perhaps more thought should be given to being single, which is an enviable situation I've found.

Perhaps love is all together misunderstood and missed out on?

There definitely seem to be some here who give me the idea that we all have to take more responsibility for our own actions and results(VK? hmm?), and some here who are so poetic as to put me in the mood for love( ).

Then there is the ultimate rule: Do as thou wilt...etc...Love under will.

Gosh it must be nearing Valentine's Day, eh?
 
 
Chiropteran
12:43 / 18.01.05
Grant - your Clocktower song brought me down so low I had to go and listen to Spike Jones to make myself feel better.

That's a compliment. Beautiful. Heartbreaking.

~L
 
 
Spaniel
13:31 / 18.01.05
I hear ya, Farseer, but, beware, new relationships tend to test cosy, post break-up friendships.
 
 
ibis the being
14:52 / 18.01.05
Being friends with exes -

In my last relationship (before current one), I was the dumper. He was a little younger and v. immature, which grew to be more and more of a problem over time - about two and half years. I began to feel like I was raising a child instead of sharing life with an equal partner, and though he seemed content enough with that arrangement, it had become a thoroughly exhausting burden to me. The most frustrating part for me was that he actually agreed that I was pulling way more than my share of the weight, but he lacked motivation to step up - even so, his ability to see my pov probably eased the transition. Our breakup was gradual, owing to our living together, so though we had essentially decided to split by the New Year, we had until the end of March for our lease to expire. That time was pretty nasty and emotional, alternating between avoiding ea other and bitterly arguing.

However, after we moved out - and he left town - we managed to become friends. There were lonely nights for both of us in which one got the other through it by commiserating over the phone, as odd as that is. I have to admit that sometimes I felt like I was abusing his affection by leaning on him in that way, but I was in a pretty terrible state of mind & suffering from lapses of conscience. At any rate, by the time I started seeing someone new, there were no hard feelings between us. We still talked on the phone every week or two, which my new boyfriend didn't worry about, having heard the explanation for our breakup. My ex also dated someone new for a little while, and I'd give him advice as best I could.

Over time, though, as my new boyfriend became my best friend, I felt I had less and less to say to my ex. We really didn't have much in common to begin with, which is why the relationship had taken such a nose dive after the first blush wore off. He called me but I never called him, and that didn't go unnoticed. Now he calls on holidays just to wish me well, and I have affection for him as an old friend, but the friendship has pretty much petered out.
 
 
tangent
16:38 / 18.01.05
Bossboy said: I hear ya, Farseer, but, beware, new relationships tend to test cosy, post break-up friendships.

That's true - but new [sexual] relationships tend to test all your friendships. And new relationships can also help you to understand why previous relationships foundered. I spent years going, 'Why, why, why?' about my most-regretted break-up ... but when I met my ex's next significant girlfriend, I worked out it all out in one hit: 'Oh, *that's* what she wanted. Nope, could never have done/been that.'

Mind you, I've already appeared in this thread as Deva's girlfriend (hi, Deva), the Aussie with a valuable collection of friends who used to be girlfriends, so I have a documented investment in arguing for the possibility of post-break-up friendships ...
 
 
farseer /pokes out an i
18:29 / 18.01.05
Perhaps sometimes loyalty should figure further into the equation?
I've stayed with a SO out of loyalty- I think that was part of why I stayed with my SO while there were physical/mental issues to work out. Sometimes I think back and wonder if perhaps my SO would have gotten over things easier if I had done the 'cruel buddha' thing and broken things off, but that was that wacky love and loyalty thing.

Perhaps more thought should be given to being single, which is an enviable situation I've found.
OMG, I am totally loving being single right now. It's so great. I have SO MUCH free time, and I've been able to make some positive changes in the way that I've wanted for a while, but didn't have the time. In some ways, my SO required X amount of time, and I usually have X-10y amounts of time total. Now I have a way better workout, meditation, magic, dreaming, gaming, pardeeing, schedule.

Perhaps love is all together misunderstood and missed out on?
Yeah, I wrote an essay about love a while ago (7 years? 8?), and I've gone back and made some modifications of it over the years. I might post it to Creation at some point, I've toyed with it a bit. I think that a friend of mine once put love in a insightful way: Love is like an alien, who sometimes visits people and is with them, mysterious, accessable but inside and outside of oneself, and when it's gone, you feel like a UFO abductee... =)

I hear ya, Farseer, but, beware, new relationships tend to test cosy, post break-up friendships. TESTIFY. I'm keeping the channels of communication open and clear. In fact, a few days ago, wilst snuggling and chatting, my ex-SO asked if I was interested in anyone, and i explained the two people whom I'm a bit interested in, but pending circumstance, I didn't see anything moving in that direction soon. We re-affirmed our agreement to communicate any movement on the sexual level ('cuz of, frankly, STDs. I don't want them, and I don't want to spread one unintentionally with a lover). I asked if my ex-SO was jealous. my ex-SO said, "yeah, a little. maybe." and we talked for a while. We're both committed to remaining friends, and so I think as long as we both feel that way, it should be good.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:18 / 18.01.05
I don't mean to be awkward, farseer, but are you sure you have actually _broken up_ with your SO. You appear to have altered the relationship to a level of commitment in which you no longer have to blame it for you feeling restless, is all. That's fine - people have all sorts of different types of relationship - but it might be worth thinking about what you and your SO are actually doing here.

Oh, and hello, tangent! Welcome aboard.
 
 
astrojax69
20:04 / 18.01.05
and more 'being friends with ex's'...

met a girl i'd seen around my scene (skinheads/rude boys & punks - sydney was small then...) at a party; she was trying to leave someone she lived with, i got about three hours sleep the next four days, 'cause i had to work too dammit, and we were together 12 or so months then... she went back to that live-in, but it was always destined to fail.... after nine months not really not talking or seeing each other, but living on opposite sides of a city - all right, it's not that small, either! - she rang up and said 'hey rasta man, wanna come to some reggae wimme?' and i said 'no let's go motor bike riding' and she said 'yeah' and we were together six more years.

from the start we'd do things like wander independently round a shop and, in our own worlds, reach for the same item, at the same time! and laugh... we were great friends.

so when the sort of actual life partner, sex, romance part of it all listed badly, then capsized and sank silently, she moved down the hall in our group house (actually had a benefit - we removed a house mate we didn't particularly like much), i left a career and worked nights while studying days, she moved back to sydney [that indeterminent sized metropolis] from canberra and we kept in touch 'cause of the dog and mutual friends.

it was really hard! recalling it now can bring back the pain...

but time is a good thing, like slow food, and we pretty soon both realised, at the same time!, that we still had that intellectual connection and she has been one of my two or three really close friends...

and i count myself very fortunate to have this many!

moral: you get out what you put in... but don't be surprised at the packaging. : )
 
 
Sekhmet
17:01 / 19.01.05
... are you sure you have actually _broken up_ with your SO?

Haus, you have no idea how funny that is.

Question for farseer: Would you be jealous at all if the SO had another romantic interest? If not, do you think that her jealousy about your interests may represent a disconnect in the way the two of you view the status of the relationship? And would that worry you at all?
 
 
slinkyvagabond
20:27 / 19.01.05
Imaginary Mice, I feel intrusive saying this, as I don't know you and believe me, I'm not trying to get at you but you really should try to make some friends. I'm not saying that in a flippant way - I felt compelled to say it because I feel so strongly on this point. People over-invest in romantic love, it being the culturally valued mode and all, and forget that there are other forms of love just as rewarding if not more. Being with a partner is of course exciting and titillating in a way that being with friends can never be, due to the massive amounts of chemicals released in your brain around the fallin-in-love phase (allow me my cynicism, I know whereof I speak, as I still suffer the minor after-effects of a 5 month relationship that ended, oh, 3 years ago now) but in my experience, friendship can run deeper and is profoundly satisfying. Neither type of love is better than the other but surely it is best to experience both?
If you are loveable enough to have had boyfriends and are capable of the love and tolerant attitude required to put up with said boyfriends then surely you are both loveable and loving enough to make friends? On some levels, especially as you get older, making friends is a harder game than finding lovers. After all, when you run out of things to say with a lover you can always just fuck or whatever. I've definitely found that as I get older it becomes easier to find a lover and far more nerve-wracking to establish a friendship. But the thing is that just as you 'click' with someone you will become romantically involved with (providing that anecdotal 'and we just knew we were meant to get together' that will tax people's gag reflexes when you recall the amazing moment) you also click with a potential friend. You'll be chatting with someone and suddenly you'll 'just know' that you and they will grow to be good friends. I think we're taught to obscure these feelings with regards to non-sexual friendships because we're conditioned to believe that they're the 'special' feelings that accompany burgeoning romantic love. But they're not - they're just indications of mutal rightness for one another, whether that's sexual or not. Oh, shit, I am sorry if this comes off all preachy and I know it's massive threadrot. I didn't want to PM you cos I thought that would be even more of an intrusion. But I just don't think you're incapable of friendship as you think. You seem like an interesting person to me.
As for actual breaking-up, it obviously depends. Getting dumped, from the left-field, by someone you love madly but who has stopped loving you yet given you zero indication about this is fucking horrible. Losing love suddenly like that is almost on a par with bereavement. Getting dumped by someone you're not mad about is a blow to the ego and possibly worrying if you keep getting dumped and are wondering why (the aggregation of being dumped can vastly exacerbate how you feel with regards to a particular issue). Flying to California to dunp your first love is pretty fucking hard, especially when you have to stay in the same bedroom with him for a week afterwards (I do not like post-breakup sex. Let it die, I say, kill it quickly) and he was and still is an abosolute gem of a man. Conversely, I have experienced great relief fairly recently upon dumping someone. I would have experienced the same relief if he'd been the one doing the deed too. Some people just aren't meant to be together. I imagine that if you add pets, property and/or kids to any of these scenarios you end up with a huge fucking mess and also that the pain and general disruption of breaking up increases parallel to the amount of time spent in the relationship.
But I have to sympathise with anyone getting dumped by someone they love. I can't really describe what a fucking vortex of hurt it is but Tori Amos does so very eloquently in 'Tear in Your Hand'....'All the world just stopped...' Yep, that about nails it.
 
 
modern maenad
09:48 / 20.01.05
Slinkyvagabond I like what you say, and absolutely echo your words regarding the rituals and courtship of friendship. Our culture (UK in my case) just doesn't have the language and established protocol/procedures for friendships that it has for almost all other relationships, yet they can be the most sustaining, wonderful relationships of our lives. I'm about to move to a new city, and am very aware of how hard its going to be and how long its going to take to make new pals. Imaginary mice, if you can I'd definitely try to take the plunge.
 
 
Olulabelle
10:12 / 20.01.05
I imagine that if you add pets, property and/or kids to any of these scenarios you end up with a huge fucking mess and also that the pain and general disruption of breaking up increases parallel to the amount of time spent in the relationship.

You imagine correctly. Marriage, son, dog, cat house, car, business = messy horrid nightmare.

*Bursts into tears.*
 
 
Fist Fun
12:01 / 20.01.05
"just doesn't have the language and established protocol/procedures for friendships that it has for almost all other relationships"

What do you mean by that, Modern?
 
 
modern maenad
12:59 / 20.01.05
OK Buk, here goes on trying to explain something I'm not fully understanding myself, its more of a feeling than fully thrashed theory........

So, it strikes me that when it comes to romantic/sexual and familial relationships there's an enormous vocabularly and set of procedures for being in, discussing and maintaining said relationships, e.g. the way we talk about who we fancy, our hopes/desires for a possible relationship etc. Similarly if you're in a longterm romantic/sexual relationship again there's practically an entire dictionary/protocol for 'being in a relationship' and talking about it with your mates/family. If that relationship breaks up, again, a whole host of socially sanctioned behavious/emotions that are totally acceptable, even expected, and again lots of familiar things to say, hear and discuss. Within our families, parents discuss their kids with other parents/friends, and as children we discuss our parents with friends/other family etc. But when you get to friendship, there's very little established or ritualised acknoweledgement of how to make, keep or get over lost friends. I'm not suggesting we never talk about our friends and friendships at all, its more that its difficult. Say you meet someone and would like to get to know then better, but purely platonically, it can be just as nerve-wracking as asking someone on a date (as slinkyvagabond has already mentioned), or possibly even more so as there are less 'signals' like flirting to help in the communication. And somehow you're just supposed to fall into friendships like magic, yet in practice they're just like romantic relationships, in that it takes a long while to really get to know someone, and the degree of commitment to one another changes over time. (something I'm often aware of is the shy ackwardness that accompanies the transition from casual to close friend, you know, the moment you share confidances, or a special day. Being invited to go on holiday with a friend is always a big one for me, when I feel all mushy and really accepted for who I am). Finally, if a close friendship breaks up, it can be devastating, but there's just not the social acknowledgement or permission to be sad, lonely etc. I often wonder if this is all to do with our chritian cultural inheritence and obsession with heterosexual/nucleal families/marriage. I'm also aware of how our (UK) conventions for 'being really nice' and never saying what you really mean make it even harder to negotiate the rocky path to friendship, "Does so and so really want to go for a drink or were they just being polite??". Hhhmmmmm??
 
 
Olulabelle
14:19 / 20.01.05
That is the wisest, truest thing I have read all week.

I've never even thought about it until now. It is true there is no verbal language or support system for friendships which break up, or indeed which you desire...
 
 
imaginary mice
16:12 / 20.01.05
when you run out of things to say with a lover you can always just fuck or whatever

Slinky, have we met?

But I just don't think you're incapable of friendship as you think. You seem like an interesting person to me.

Thanks, that’s really sweet. I have been trying really hard to make friends. But it’s just not working for me.

That is the wisest, truest thing I have read all week.

Seconded.
 
 
Spaniel
20:11 / 20.01.05
Tangent, I totally agree, however
it seems to me, that new sexual relationships are more likely to test and/or force you to re-evaluate relationships with ex-partners, particularly if, like Farseer , physical and emotional snuggling is still a big part of said relationship(s).
 
 
imaginary mice
20:21 / 20.01.05
'Oh, *that's* what [s]he wanted. Nope, could never have done/been that.'

That's exactly why I hope I will never see my ex-boyfriend with another girl. It would be unbearably painful and depressing.
 
 
lekvar
01:10 / 21.01.05
Sometimes seeing your ex with their new victi- er, significant other can be quite gratifying. Like the time when my ex, who I was still living with out of dire monetarry necessity and having fallen for the "let's be friends" speech, brought her twice-her-age boyfriend home and had him living in the garage.

Living may be the best revenge, but seeing your ex settle for less is pretty good too.
 
 
imaginary mice
08:21 / 21.01.05
“You can‘t get bitter, man. Just because someone tells you they love you, and then they leave... You gotta think there‘s a reason. You‘ve gotta find a bright side. You‘ve gotta move on after they leave.... You know what? I’m glad she left. It helped my career. Because I’m driven now. I’m driven by a fantasy.

A fantasy that one day this girl who I loved more than anything in the world - and who said she loved me then left - that one day she’s going to be living somewhere, in a trailer park, living with this ex-welder, who's 600 pounds, with fur all over his back, drinks beer, farts, belches, beats the kids, and watches the Dukes Of Hazzard every night. And has to have it explained to him.

She‘s going to have nine little kids with rickets, bringing home dead animals from the side of the road for them to eat at night, dirt in their hair, birds in their face, and rats laying eggs in their ears every night.

One night that welder is going to be making love to her. He‘s going to be on top, and suddenly his heart's going to explode. And she‘s going to be trapped under 600 pounds of flaccid, fish belly cellulite, shifting like the tides of the oceans, as blood, phlegm, and bile pour out of his mouth and nose and into her face. And just before she drowns in that tepid puddle of afterbirth, she‘s going to turn to The Tonight Show on TV:


And I‘m going to be on it.”

- Bill Hicks
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:41 / 21.01.05
Ah, Bill. Because being a Republican might be bad. Being a racist might be bad. Being a fascist might be bad. But you know what really sucks?

Being poor.

Living may be the best revenge, but seeing your ex settle for less is pretty good too

Yep. Thing is, Lekvar, she didn't think she was settling for less. She thought she was getting together with a new partner. A new partner who, you know, might have had financial problems that forced him to do something that was a bit sub-optimal. Like you sharing living space with your ex. And her new partner.

Imaginary Mice:

That's exactly why I hope I will never see my ex-boyfriend with another girl. It would be unbearably painful and depressing.

Well, yeah. To an extent, possibly. Except that you are not auditioning to be his girlfriend any more. It doesn't matter if you have the characteristics that he looks for in a girlfriend. Of course, people's needs change, so it could just be that you were good for each other at one point but then ceased to be. My ex-partners' subsequent relationship choices have often left me boggle-eyed and seething with sexual or otherwise jealousy. And then I've calmed down, sometimes over the course of months or years, and realised:

a) They may be acting on desires I do not have access to or the right to speculate about.
b) They may be getting something from that person that is not immediately identifiable.
c) If we were so all-fired perfect for each other, we'd still be together
d) Frankly, I'm not in a position to make utterly impartial judgements about my exes' new partners.
e) My criteria for good partnerness are based on me. As it happens, I am statistically a pretty good partner, but rationally the ways in which I am a good partner are not necessarily the only ways to be a good partner.
 
 
slinkyvagabond
14:23 / 21.01.05
Mice, I didn't mean to say that that is necessarily what you do in an akward silent patch with a lover. But y'know, I speak from somewhat ashamed experience. A good fuck sure fills the gaps in conversation. And Modern, yes, wise words indeed.
 
 
imaginary mice
15:22 / 21.01.05
you are not auditioning to be his girlfriend any more
I'm not going to comment, it's too personal.

Of course, people's needs change
So all relationships are doomed from the start?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:44 / 21.01.05
Well, all relationships end. Sometimes they end because one party dies, and sometimes they end because one part or the other or both, for whatever reason, decide(s) that the relationship no longer functions. So, yeah, all relationships are doomed, because all people are doomed. That doesn't mean that a relationship is a failure just because it will ultimately end, any more than all people are failures because they will ultimately die.

So, people's needs and desires change. That doesn't necessarily mean that all relationships are doomed except in the sense above - one of the things that affects how people in a relationship change is that relationship. I use the term "relationship" here to describe any emotionally involved interaction between two or more people, whether or not it involves naughting. So, at different times people have different things to offer each other. Beyond that, a lot depends on what you see as a relationship and what you see as a failure, hein?
 
 
Olulabelle
10:43 / 24.01.05
Our Lady pointed this article on friendship out elsewhere online and so I bring it into this thread and place it at your feet as a little gift.
 
 
slinkyvagabond
21:16 / 24.01.05
Yeah, I read that artical today. I found it pretty depressing but then I suppose this is a depressing and swiftly rotting thread.

So Samael, how's it panning out for you? Do you feel that any of this helped?
 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
  
Add Your Reply