BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


So, what do you think of Israel?

 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
 
raelianautopsy
11:43 / 08.05.04
Actually in that same post I mentioned that the Nazi party worked very close with the European Zionist movement when they originally had the same goals. But let me be more specific and say that pretty much all anti-Jewish racism TODAY is also very anti-Israel. I admit it, I've looked at a lot of far-right/NeoNazi/Militia Patriot websites, and they all pertain to this. So some people do hate Israel just because they are racists. But at the same time many people have legitimate critisms of Israel and cheap race cards are unnecessarily thrown at them to deflect debate. All I'm saying is that both examples exist. It's not 100% one or the other.
 
 
Panic
17:46 / 10.05.04
Not only does the US cynically use its UN veto to aid Israel in its multiple human rights abuses (and it's broken more Resolutions than any other nation since the UN began), but it continues to bankroll Israel financially and militarily to a degree that is frankly obscene.

That may have something to do with Evangelical Christianity's lock on American Foreign Policy that's leftover from the Reagan Administration. The state of Israel has to exist in order for the Temple Mount to be rebuilt blah blah blah etc etc. I really wish that the US supported Israel because it's the only democracy in the region, but that's just not the case.

Lately I've begun to think of Israel as a state founded on terror. Ethnic cleansing and other atrocities against Palestinians, the King David Hotel bombing, the bombing of the British Embassy in Rome, numerous other incidents committed by the Stern Gang and the Irgun and other "freedom fighters."

The Jewish people, especially in Europe, have been on the receiving end of a couple thousand years of hatred and suspicion. I can understand the desire for a Jewish homeland. But these methods are never justified. Not in British Palestine, not in Ireland, not in the Basque regions, not in the West Bank. Nowhere.
 
 
diz
18:11 / 10.05.04
You guys obviously hold zero interest in exploring Zionist viewpoints. Some chaos magicians you are!

chaos magick is rooted in the idea that belief is fundamentally a tool for reshaping reality. you use the beliefs which help you achieve the ends you're looking for. while it's important to remain flexible and leave yourself open to shifts in belief, and to avoid getting too attached to any one system, and even to experiment around and challenge yourself and so on and so forth, there's no benefit or virtue in jumping into new ideologies simply for the sake of doing so. Zionism, i would argue, like most virulent nationalisms/racisms right now, simply is not a very useful tool in most circumstances for doing anything i would want to do, and hence taking on a Zionist perspective is of limited utility.

also, your general assertion that anti-Semitism is on the rise is pretty much 150% bullshit. it's one of the Big Lies being circulated by the right-wing propagandists who intentionally want to blur the line between criticism of Israel and anti-Semitism.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:26 / 11.05.04
also, your general assertion that anti-Semitism is on the rise is pretty much 150% bullshit.

Really? How about the recent crime statistics in France, say? Is it possible that anti-Semitism may be on the rise *as well* as the idea of anti-Semitism being on the rise being a tool in particular of pro-Israel political parties?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:22 / 11.05.04
How do you measure something like that?
 
 
The Prince of All Lies
14:47 / 11.05.04
I read something about those "statistics" on Le Monde Diplomatique..those statistics reflected crimes against jews, or something like that, and they were mostly committed by young, poor muslims and argelian immigrants...which may be due to the social exclusion they are in. The statistics weren't really accurate, and they didn't show the supposed increase in attacks on jews compared to the overall crime rate.
I don't believe in statistics anyway. You can make numbers say anything you want.
 
 
w1rebaby
15:31 / 11.05.04
Well, the recent "EU report proving that anti-semitism was massively on the rise in Europe" that was generally waved around by the American right didn't really come out as saying that if you actually read more than the bits quoted, or read them in context. I'm not sure precisely which report Haus is commenting on so I couldn't say about that.

But it wouldn't surprise me if there was a bit more anti-semitism in Europe now than, say, ten years ago; Israel has a higher profile now, it is said that its actions are now causing other countries risk (via encouraging international terrorism) which makes it more personal to people who never really gave a toss about the Palestinians, and there are always those who find the concept of a government not being the same as a people difficult to grasp. It's just this idea of it being "chic" and acceptable is basically a fantasy.
 
 
Jester
15:45 / 11.05.04
Again, I just don't see how you can measure this? Did they ask people in an opinion poll their opinions about Jews? Or Israel? There are obviously inherant problems with that...
Or was it based on the floating claims coming from Israel/America in direct response to a marginally tougher line from the EU and that that nebulous thing 'European public opinion'?
 
 
Baz Auckland
23:01 / 11.05.04
There has been an increase in this area. The last few months saw quite a bit of anti-Jewish (not anti-Israel) graffiti, as well as attempted arson on synagogues and vandalism in Jewish cemetaries...

Most of the magazine articles I've read on 'the new anti-semitism' (the headline of one magazine) seem to be a bit forced, and equating anti-Sharon with anti-Jewish, but at least here there has been a rise...
 
  

Page: 1(2)

 
  
Add Your Reply