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Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

Is Anyone Here A Literary Agent (Or Do You Know One Personally)

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miss wonderstarr

21:17 / 21.04.04

Fortunately I have no grand ambitions to publish a book of limericks.

I searched on here and found no hint of this type of thread, but please feel free to get rid if it's been done or if it's inappropriate. To me it seemed kind of obvious. Here's a massive community of intelligent professionals. It must be possible that someone here either works as an agent for fiction or knows people who do.

Like many folk who contribute a lot to internet sites, I've been writing fiction since I could hold a pen, and like a lot of other people, I'd like to get an agent for the novel I've recently finished. (Not my first unpublished novel, which is a good thing, I think. Actually I think it's more like the fifth I've completed in ten years, and I honestly think the only way to improve at these things is to keep on doing it. I've also published six non-fiction books, which can't hurt my chances. I mention all this shit in defence because I know "I want to get a novel published" is such a hopeless loser-cliche.)

The sending out cold to agents from Writers and Artists Yearbook has actually got me some decent and cheering response in the past, with agents phoning me up and meeting me occasionally, but still not actually going that 100% to representing my work.

I strongly suspect that personal contact and being introduced to someone is the best way to ensure your submission is genuinely read and given a fair shot, rather than chucked into the slush for some bored junior.

So it seemed worth trying. Is anyone here from publishing? There's a number of things I'd like to ask someone in the know, regardless of whether they could actually furnish me with any useful contacts. I can't be the only one who could use some inside gen about an industry that from the outside seems a, well, a closed book.

ONLY NICE THINGS

21:43 / 21.04.04

Well, Lionheart might have climbed the greasy pole by now...

Mod question - should these two threads be in this thread or the Creation? Where are they more likely to get a favourable response? Everyone carry on in the meantime...

Anyway, kovacs, do your non-fiction publishers have a fiction imprint? That's probably a blindingly silly question, but it might be a place to start...

22:07 / 21.04.04

Hmm, no specific experience myself, but I have heard that the best way to do this is to submit a very short (and thus far more likely to be read) excerpt to an agent. I did actually get this piece of advice from an actual person who had an agent, or even an agent but I can't for the life of me remember the context, except I was asking for a friend who also wanted to get published and was in search of an agent. I remember being faintly embarrassed about asking, too. Maybe it was at a party. Drunk. Still, for what it's worth...

miss wonderstarr

06:38 / 22.04.04

No, Tanntamount, they don't unfortunately. My main contact at my main publisher is being helpful and trying to think of contacts in fiction, but that's my only real lead there.

I'm kind of wary of sending in a short story if you want to get a novel published. Firstly, I haven't written one in ten years and to be honest I'm probably really bad at them. I don't ever enjoy reading them and as it's a totally different skill to writing longer work, I'm not at all sure it would show me at my best, such as that is.

Secondly, it seems slightly perverse to send in one thing when actually you want the other thing published. My approach in the past has been the usual synopsis-query letter-first 3 chapters package to agents from the Yearbook, and that has worked OK in that, as I said, I sent to maybe 5 names last time and one of them was really keen, then disappeared. (Them's the breaks. Kind of like girlfriends really... sending out your work, like casual dating, is a numbers game I think.)

I see the point in saying "look, here's something short to prove I can write good", but as I've said, I don't think a short story shows you can write a novel, and vice versa.

One specific question that I'm not clear about from my enquiries and research so far. A novel synopsis submitted to agents -- is that

i) an exciting teaser blurb, a pitch that gives the tone and style of your work but doesn't reveal everything about the plot

OR

ii) step by step, "in chapter 1 this happens. In chapter 2 this happens", so they can see the entire outline of the plot?

I am doing (i), having read that on some "So You Wanna Get Published" help site, but a successful short story writer of my acquaintance suggested it should be (ii).

PS. I did consider The Creation but that seems to be about actually posting up work, rather than asking questions about the business. This forum is flagged for talking about "literary world".

miss wonderstarr

06:40 / 22.04.04

submit a very short (and thus far more likely to be read) excerpt to an agent

Sorry Jester, I misread that as "short story", hence the above. It is still early for me. I will let my silly error stand instead of asking for an edit.

09:54 / 22.04.04

Decide which authors your work is nearest to, perhaps Chuck Palahniuk.

Find out who their agents are, which is easy enough; they often put acknowledgements to their agents in the thank-yous, or just Google ie "Chuck Palahniuk"+agent.

Then send a creeping letter saying how you have chosen said agent because of their wonderful reputation in the business, and that although you could never hope to emulate the soaring talent that is Mr Palahniuk, you do feel that your work might just share shelf-space with him in the minds of the readership.

Include three chapters and a synopsis, and a CV detailing your other published work.

Wait three months, receive reply saying "thank you for allowing us to see your work. Unfortunately the market is very tight at the moment and we don't feel able to offer you representation. Good luck in placing this elsewhere."

Kill yourself.

Or, repeat.

Good luck.

miss wonderstarr

10:43 / 22.04.04

Find out who their agents are, which is easy enough; they often put acknowledgements to their agents in the thank-yous, or just Google ie "Chuck Palahniuk"+agent.

I heard the first advice before and don't think it's workable, because to be honest they do not often put acknowledgements in the thank-yous, and they don't often specify "thanks to my agent, Laura Randall of Hughes Associates". It's more likely "thanks to Laura, for getting me through, even on the hard days!" Like, could be his wife or his dog.

But I didn't think of the second idea. That's a promising one.

11:33 / 22.04.04

Some people seem to like to go the competition route - win a prestigious competition and then a literary agent might well approach you?

If you're in the UK, the Annual Writers' Conference in Winchester might be worth a look. It seems fairly expensive, but you can arrange one-to-one appointments with literary agents, and go to workshops on getting published and such things. Not sure how good it is, since I've never been. Has anyone else?

11:54 / 22.04.04

I'm sure it's not your intention K, ( well or maybe it is, ) but I'd be wary of looking for an easy way in. Knowing an agent personally is only going to get you so far, and is certainly no guarantee of seeing your stuff in the bookshops. Plus they're all bastards anyway.

But yeah, I do know one. I imagine he thinks I died a long time ago, but I do know one. PM if you like.

miss wonderstarr

12:10 / 22.04.04

I'm sure it's not your intention K, ( well or maybe it is, ) but I'd be wary of looking for an easy way in. Knowing an agent personally is only going to get you so far, and is certainly no guarantee of seeing your stuff in the bookshops. Plus they're all bastards anyway.

Sure, it is no guarantee at all. But I don't see any merit in deliberately taking the "hard way" of writing to loads of people on spec and having your work glanced at by someone way down the hierarchy, if you can write to someone you half-know and have your work given a slightly better chance.

So thank you for your offer.

11:28 / 26.04.04

Kovacs-- I'm pretty certain that a synopsis should be type 1 type, a teasing blurb like explanation of the story rather than a step by step guide to what's happened. That's what they told me on my creative writing Mphil anyway.

11:45 / 26.04.04

I dunno what agents expect, but according to the dictionary a synopsis is not a blurb - it is a summary or abstract. It doesn't have to be a plodding chapter by chapter thing, but to be a synopsis it must be more than a teaser.

I've been following your method Kovacs, without success I might add, and my synopsis has always been a general plot summary (focusing more on the main threads rather than chapter by chapter) but written in a kind of blurby style, to give them an idea of how a blurb might look that could sell the thing to shoppers.

Of course the fact that I am not relating this story to an auditorium of adoring fans right now suggests that like you, I may need a new tactic.

miss wonderstarr

12:53 / 26.04.04

Well, you see: even in the last two posts we have disagreement, which to my mind shows the ambiguity of "synopsis".

Maybe those of us in the same position could trade synopses, query letters, even first few pages/chapters to give each other objective, critical opinion. I'm currently about to give my first (supposedly crucial) couple of pages new attention and it's hard to judge exactly how grabby your work would be to a new reader -- of course you're much too close to it yourself.

13:30 / 26.04.04

You should always put the ending of your story in your synopsis.

miss wonderstarr

14:02 / 26.04.04

But back-cover blurbs don't include the end. I wouldn't feel so inclined to read something if the synopsis had told me everything that was going to happen.

Do you know this for A FACT Sax, and if so how.

14:22 / 26.04.04

Well, I originally did blurb-style synopses but I was told by more agents than I have fish fingers in my freezer that what they don't want is a back cover blurb, they want to know how the story pans out.

It might be dramatic to write: "Now all that stands between Walter and true love is the terrible secret his grandmother has kept for half a century".

But if the terrible secret turns out to be that she's actually Adolf Hitler in disguise, they'd probably rather know that so they can tell you not to bother sending the remaining 80,000 words in.

miss wonderstarr

14:34 / 26.04.04

OK, to be honest I think you were fortunate to get any kind of helpful criticism from agents. Apart from the couple who were at least temporarily keen on my work, all I've ever had is form letters back.

I suspect that if an agent liked the look of your letter, synopsis and first pages or chapter, the fact that you hadn't detailed the end of the novel wouldn't actually stop them from contacting you for more. If you can clearly write an introductory sequence and hook someone with a blurby one-page summary, I would suggest you're probably in the minority among on-spec submissions (I am imagining that most people who send stuff to agents are truly awful and hopeless).

However, I'm certainly not discounting your advice here. I may just be resisting it because I find it bloody hard to summarise an entire novel on one page of A4, and still keep the prose interesting. I also seem to have some kind of inbuilt reluctance to reveal the complete plot to someone who hasn't read the first chapter. It doesn't seem "natural".

Whisky Priestess

15:05 / 26.04.04

Right. I put this question to my friend who is a literary agent (although bear in mind that her agency's stuff is not all that literary - thrillers and chick-lit mostly) and here is what she said ...

"Interesting question. We normally ask for a brief synopsis when people approach us. As far as I'm concerned, the best is a one side of A4 job with teasers as on the back of a book. In order to get an agent to read, it is half the battle to pique their interest. Do that and you are really making progress. And sometimes those "chapter 1, chapter 2" breakdowns have something of the reductio ad absurdum about them. Show me the magic!"

So, in fact, either or neither is correct depending on whom you approach.

18:39 / 26.04.04

I suppose the real question is, is your book good enough to be published?

miss wonderstarr

18:43 / 26.04.04

I believe it's certainly good enough to be published. Perhaps I would say that. But you are welcome to read a bit of it and see if you think it's any good in your opinion.

I wonder Whiskey Priestess if I could contact your agent friend? I am not usually nearly so networky, for which read pushy and obnoxious, but I'm afraid my determination to get this novel published is overriding my normal politeness. I hope that's a good thing in a way.

miss wonderstarr

18:43 / 26.04.04

NB I would normally spell someone's name right, too. Whisky.

The Tower Always Falls

23:58 / 26.04.04

I find this all rather interesting since I'm soon to be embarking on that painful journey of waiting for novel rejections myself. The "agent of authors similar to you" has been mentioned to me a few seperate times, as well as by someone who is actually semi-sucessful as a writer- so i think that method is a good one. A lot is networking, sure, but if you happen to get tight with an agent who specilaizes in cookbooks and upmarket thrillers and your book is chick lit meets William Burroughs, then it may not help very much...

Whisky Priestess

09:18 / 27.04.04

Kovacs - see my PM.

09:45 / 27.04.04

Does anyone have any objections if I move to have this transferred to the Creation forum?

miss wonderstarr

10:18 / 27.04.04

It's getting a lot of replies here and this forum is about "novels...literary world" so I don't really see why you would have to move it. "Literary world" implies that the Books forum is not just for talking about published work, but the industry. The thread has not gone off-topic. It's remaining near the top of the page every day. Why fix it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:52 / 27.04.04

It's borderline - it might be worth bowling it into the Creation once it's run its course here, to see if it gets more responses there from people who read the Creation but not the Books. Since it is indeed about the literary world, but is also about a member of Barbelith's creative work, it straddles the two. I'd leave it here for the mo, maybe move it later.

11:06 / 27.04.04

Back on topic, then... perhaps the way forward is to enclose two synopses with your work: a full account of the story with beginning middle and end outlined, and a couple-of-hundred words of enticing blurb. Not going to be that much extra work, really, and let's face it, anyone who's had dealings with literary agents and publishers knows that the real hard work does begin once you've typed "The End".

Whisky Priestess

12:33 / 27.04.04

Or for those of us following the teaser route ...

"The End - or is it?"

12:54 / 27.04.04

Just to throw another mushroom into the casserole here, what do people think about paying someone like Golgonooza or The Literary Consultancy to evaluate your work? Does the old rule "never pay someone to read your manuscript" still hold, or is it increasingly becoming the case that literary agents are so busy nowadays authors need another method of approach just to get read?

miss wonderstarr

13:34 / 27.04.04

+-+UPDATE+-+

I have actually expanded my synopsis to a full-narrative blurb, on advice from this thread. Managed to keep it on a single page.

Just to throw another mushroom into the casserole here, what do people think about paying someone like Golgonooza or The Literary Consultancy to evaluate your work

What do they do... just evaluate it for money, or do they pass you on to anyone else if they think it's any good? If it's the former, I wouldn't bother myself. I think it's easier to find "writing buddies" and people you can trust to be objectively critical, even if you don't trust your own judgement of your work.

16:12 / 27.04.04

I'm not sure what I think about that Sax. On one hand (trying to be positive), any angle that has the slightest chance of working shouldn't be dismissed, and if you have a few quid to spare then I guess there's no harm trying. But on the other hand (ie. what I really think), I don't really see why any one person's opinion is worth moe than another's. It's the same reason I'm sceptical of writing courses. I would imagine that any random 10 people "in the industry" would have different opinions of the quality of my work. So who's to say which one of them will get given my pages when I send them off with my cheque to be examined? And if that one person suggests I re-write the book in first person, what reason is there to follow that advice when quite possibly another equally experienced person would suggest something different?

I'm maybe being a bit negative but I don't think it's very likely that any one person could really suggest a magic idea that would get an already good piece of writing published. As long as you write good stuff I think the rest comes down in a large way to luck, and who can say what quirk in your style will appeal to an agent at any given moment, or whether the subject of your novel suddenly becomes popular and you're in on the ground floor of No. 1 Zeitgeist St?

Whisky Priestess

16:47 / 27.04.04

I think if a few separate evaluators said the same thing about your book ("Lose the hippo" "Set it in the future" "The hero needs a girlfriend" etc.) that would count as something you ought to do: but then again that's a lot of money just to be told to do a rewrite ...

16:52 / 27.04.04

Oh, I quite agree. Pride would always prevent me from paying someone to read my work - I want them to pay me, dammit. But that sort of thing's been getting a bit of press recently, so I wondered if anyone had been tempted.

Oh, and for some reason (probably Loomis mentioning "ground floor") I read Whisky's evaluators as "elevators". I'd quite like having my work commented upon by literary elevators.

08:46 / 28.04.04

Came to this late, so lots been said.

My experience has covered the (a) look for agents or writers you like/similar genre to you, (b) definitely more (1) type blurby synopsis, rather than chapters, and (c) send sample chapters, although you can sometimes wait for them to ask for them.

I went on a course where people taught you how to write a covering letter, which completely changed how I was doing things. I may be teaching you all to suck eggs or some such vegan equivalent, but here goes.

Para one: X suggested I contact you [if at all possible, my personal experience is that the networking helps, some]

Para two: I'm a [short summary of you, selling best points] with [your best writing kudos examples: a column somewhere, an award - K, you might say six non fiction books published somewhere]

Para three: I have completed [better] a novel about [one sentence summary on the essence of your work], targeted at [who its for] and have enclosed a [whatever you've enclosed].

My experience, and YMMV, has been that agents get lots of letters than say "I'm a retired army colonel whose recently turned my hand to writing" and they quite like a comfort factor that you can write and someone else already thinks so: your non-fiction books, whatever else. They also like the "commercial" stuff - pitchy/blurby and who it's targeted at.

And be prepared for rejection. Which I'm crap at, but not everyone likes the same things, look at the bloke who turned down the Beatles blah blah blah.

Feel free to ignore all this, usual caveats.

09:29 / 28.04.04

I was tempted a while ago to go down this route. But it's no good, IMO. Paying someone to read your work is like paying for sex, in a way - you're just not going to get a genuinely objective critique.

Good UK agents are as follows:

Curtis Brown: Peters Fraser & Dunlop: Sheil Land.

And if anyone feels discouraged, I'm most of the time a pretty poor excuse for a photocopy of a human being, with no real talent, and I've got an agent, so if I can do it, let's face it, any other f***** can.

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