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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Kill Bill Vol. 2

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17:17 / 19.08.04

but.. the flute-playing was amazing! Just the kind of nutty little detail, doubtless a 'homage' to some daft old film or other I guess, that differentiates these films from Hollywood product..

Haus of Mystery

18:41 / 19.08.04

Oh come on - paying homage to your favourite films is hardly a revolutionary technique.

Jack The Bodiless

11:24 / 20.08.04

Yeah. In this case, it's a cliched way to make your characters appear interesting when there's actually nothing to them. Bill would be a useless piece of crap if Carradine hadn't played him - as it is, he's a charismatic piece of stunt-casting crap, just like Travolta in Pulp Fiction. It's just Tarantino jerking off over being able to cast David fucking Carradine in one of his movies. At least Beatty would have been left field...

09:10 / 21.08.04

Yeah but.. it's fun. And cool an' shit.

That's about as deep as my argument goes I'm afraid, but shallowness isn't always a bad thing.

wembley can change in 28 days

06:28 / 22.08.04

I dunno... I might have liked watching someone (anyone!) else playing Bill; the role has some meat to it. But Carradine is definitely Bill-as-David-Carradine. The first time through his performance was a lot of fun, and I still like some of his indulgences on repeated watchings. But in general I keep wanting to shoot the scenery-eating old cradlerobber before he gets to the goddamned Superman speech.

Keith, like a scientist

14:35 / 22.08.04

the flute playing (after watching the Making Of thing) is actually not in the script, but I guess Carradine would bring it to the set to while away the time, and Tarantino put it in cause he liked it. Plus it's one of the flute's Carradine would play on Kung Fu.

14:47 / 22.08.04

He also used them as weapons in The Silent Flute- note the VZZZH! sound when he puts it away with a flourish, that's the sound it made in the fight between the blind master and the bandits.

14:56 / 07.09.04

>> How he plays with the idea of alter egos amazed me. *That's why they bleeped her name out in the first one.*

I know Blockbuster sometimes edits for content (I'm actually curious to learn more about this, why and how they do it, those scummy bastards, if they only do it for R rated movies, etc.)

I just saw Vol. 2 for the first time, rented it from Blockbuster. There's a bit when Bill is talking with Budd where the Bride's name gets bleeped out. I kept thinking, is this Blockbuster editing crap out?? But I figured it must have been really in the movie since words like 'cunt' and 'pussy' are freely used later on. I guess this was just bleeping out her name til we learn it later on...?

And I loved Beatrix' kung-fu master -- totally hilarious. Although was it part of the old cheesy kung-fu movies that a guy who's supposed to be really old has all that huge long wispy hair but his actual face looks pretty young...?

15:31 / 07.09.04

Blockbuster itself, as a chain, does not edit for content. What it does is refuse to carry certain titles unless they are edited for content. The actual editing is done either under the supervision of the director or by some third party. It's no different than editing a film for HBO, or network television, or for the airlines.

The bleep was indeed present in the original film; it's a metatextual moment, a little joke.

Pai Mei (the name means "White Eyebrow") is a character who appeared in many Chinese chopsockey movies of the 1960s and 70s; he's not exactly public domain, not exactly open-source, but something conceptually similar.

As QT notes in the making-of feature on the Volume I DVD, Hattori Hanzo (Sonny Chiba's character in Volume I) was borrowed from a Japanese TV show; Chiba played a succession of characters, each named Hattori Hanzo, in a succession of historical martial-arts epics, each set in a different time period. Kinda like BlackAdder, but with more ass-kicking.

I've got some thoughts about the movies' weirdly reactionary and reductionist views of sex roles (key point: in the closing credits, Beatrix Kiddo's final and most important alias is "Mommy," but Bill—who raised BB alone for five years—is denied the title of "Daddy"), QT's obsession with sibling relationships (the Vega and Gecko brothers, Bill & Budd, QT and Robert Rodriguez), the overarching theme of transformation, even rebirth, especially in the way that both films are centered on a resurrection sequence—one literal and one metaphorical, and I'm still not sure which is which...

...but these thoughts are as yet fragmentary, and will require a re-viewing. Maybe later.

16:54 / 07.09.04

Thanks Jack. I wonder how to tell which Blockbuster titles are most likely to be edited...? Just the hardest, most intense, graphic stuff? Or just best never to rent from Blockbuster again?

One thing I would have liked to see at the end of the movie: Uma addressing where Daddy went to her daughter. Quentin makes a big deal about introducing the kid and her devotion to her daddy; after Uma KILLS BILL!, we never see the daughter asking the question any kid would ask: "Why are we leaving my house? Where's daddy?" I wanted very much to see how Beatrix would answer that one. The kid just seems to accept it and be all happy instantly, from the few post-killing of Bill scenes we see. This sort of bothered me for a few moments. But then again, it's not a 'realistic' movie so I got over it pretty quick.

13:01 / 08.09.04

But Bill's final gift to Beatrix, the only way he could atone for his transgressions against her, was to raise a child that could understand that one day Mommy might come home and kill Daddy. He wasn't going to lie down and die, but he wasn't going to shoot her in cold blood, either. He gave her her shot, she won fair and square, and she got the kid. Thus ended Bill's spiritual journey to redemption started when he overstepped his own limits at the chapel massacre, limits he never knew he had until he broke them. A journey as important as Beatrix's journey of revenge. Why do you think Bea was locked in the bathroom, crying "Thank you, thank you"? Bill was the hero and the villain. He was the only character to evolve. Vernita "getting knocked up" and playing happy families didn't change a damn thing about her, she was still an honourless killer; Oh-Ren had reached a crescendo of evil, surpassing the mobsters who killed her family; for all Budd's supposed remorse, his execution of her was the most pointlessly sadistic move in the game until Elle killed him with a black mamba for the Godkiller sword. And Elle? She never had honor to begin with, the most repulsive sociopath of the lot. You knew she was a goner when she said the magic words- "I killed your Master!". Kiss of death.

13:55 / 08.09.04

i thought ellie driver was the most sympathetic character of the bunch - clearly totally subjugated to bill's will, desperate for his approval, and all the time playing second blonde-fiddle to bill's thrill.

13:59 / 08.09.04

>> But Bill's final gift to Beatrix, the only way he could atone for his transgressions against her, was to raise a child that could understand that one day Mommy might come home and kill Daddy.

Thanks - I had thought about this in a vague sense but didn't really get it. And it certainly clarifies, as you said, the 'thank you' bathroom scene.

14:08 / 08.09.04

Sympathetic? She was willing to viciously murder Bill's beloved brother just to save money- I don't buy for a second her bullshit about regretting the death of a warrior- she was perfectly happy to off Bea when she was in a coma. It's not hard to figure out why Budd told her he hocked his Hanzo when he hadn't- he just didn't figure she was greedy enough to kill him to get the Godkiller AND keep the million, which couldn't have been THAT much to a top-flight assassin like her.

19:01 / 08.09.04

I agree, Elle Driver was more pathetic than sympathetic - but, as was said, you do feel a little bit for her (just a little) cause she's always been second best to Beatrix.

Keith, like a scientist

00:43 / 19.08.05

for some reason, i had a desire to watch Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 again this week. wasn't sure what i would think once the hype and initial excitement had worn off from this.

I think i actually enjoy these movies even more now. 1 is just so badass, while 2 is just so sad... there is something about that final chapter that is very heartfelt, very dear.

but something i was paying attention this time was...back on the second page of this topic, someone mentioned a theory that this is an imaginary tale taking place in the mind of B.B.

I think there is evidence to support this...i noted that no one else had commented on this thought. what does everyone think? anyone else revisited these movies recently and feel compelled to discuss?

Regrettable Juvenilia

06:42 / 19.08.05

I think there is evidence to support this...

Go on then.

08:55 / 19.08.05

I should add, another part of Bill's "sorry" gift to Bea was that she would never have to lie to her child about who she was- thus Bill's oft-misunderstood "Superman" speech. He obviously didn't think too much of Vernita's retirement, echoed in the way T. shot her intro, everything looking like bright plastic, and the musicbox playing. He could so obviously have just killed her at any point, we saw how insanely good he was with a gun- Carradine probably still has the best fastdraw in Hollywood, but he was determined to play fair with her, even if it meant forcing her to play fair, too. B.B. was his last work, the magnum opus of the Snake Charmer, the master of psychology who was the only thing stopping the nest of Deadly Vipers turning on each other. Thus the quality children's entertainment, like Shogun Assassin.

Keith, like a scientist

12:05 / 19.08.05

Well, I don't have much to add to what was posted by Issaiah Saysir. But I found it interesting enough of an idea that could be supported by the source...:
2. This is an imaginary tale taking place in the mind of the little girl we identify as B.B. ( obviously Bill and Beatrix ) Cmon...Kiddo? First clue.

3. That Bill was introduced at the wedding as her 'Father' (yes, I understand the reason behind it, but stick with me.)

4. The scene showing Beatrix Kiddo in school, raising her hand for attendence in class (dead giveaway)

5. The eyeball = The fish BB stepped on.

6. Bill's speech about Superman. Clark Kent is Superman's perception of the world, Beatrix is BBs 'fictionsuit' as influenced by the martial arts movies. This is the point Bill is trying to make... and the reason behing the truth serum [because when it comes to Bill, she never tells the truth] Think of how many times we saw a child in the two films, confronted with the murder of a parent.

7. The idiosynchrocies throughout: Swords on airplanes, baby being born while in coma,etc. These are the perceptions of a child influenced by media, not knowing the intiricies of the world.

The things I have to contribute to this are:
8. There are a few instances where B.B. clearly states that she dreamed of Beatrix.

9. 'Bang Bang, Mommy' echoes the Sinatra song from the opening.

HOWEVER,
I also am wondering if this story is taking place in Beatrix's coma dream. After all, the opening titles show a sleeping figure that appears to be Beatrix.

All of the above mentioned idiosynchrocies above could be explained by the weird things that happen in dreams.

This could easily be the way Bride thinks about awakening, killing her tormentors, and then going after the Vipers and Bill, finally be reunited with her child.

I don't particularly like these scenarios, as dream stories generally seem to be a cop-out... but I find it somewhat intriguing.

Of course, it's probably just QT's scatter brain making all this seem like a dream.

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:09 / 19.08.05

None of the above is evidence to suggest this is an imaginary tale taking place in the mind of B.B.

It might suggest that this is an imaginary tale.

Because it is.

But then, aren't they all?

Apart from documentaries.

Keith, like a scientist

12:12 / 19.08.05

ok, thanks.

13:54 / 19.08.05

Naw, Tarantino's made it pretty clear that there are two worlds he writes about, the "real world" of Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction (both part of a "Tarantino-verse" with the revelation that Vincent Vega and Vic Vega are brothers), and the warped, dreamlike world of the movies made IN that world- Kill Bill being the first film made in that twice-seperated-from-ours reality.

14:00 / 19.08.05

You, me, and Barbelith.com = Qwewq

Pulp Fiction = DCU

Kill Bill = Summer's End

?

Keith, like a scientist

14:22 / 19.08.05

Lord Morque, I'd never heard that before. That is very interesting.

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