BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Who's your favourite video game character?.

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:08 / 03.04.04
OKAY. Before I start this, I'm gonna reiterate my long-standing opinion that Deus Ex is the best game ever. EVER.

However, JC Denton as a character leaves a lot to be desired.

Plotting seems to have come a long way in the last few years... but characterisation still seems a long way behind.

Which video game characters do you actually CARE about?

I ask, cos I've been playing Vice City all afternoon, and it occurred to me that I actually LIKED Tommy Vercetti. Random violence aside, he seems like a decent enough guy.

Max Payne I also like. 47 from Hitman, too, seems to be at least an attempt to make a character more human.

Are video game characters generally unsympathetic because the creators don't care about that aspect? Or because the majority of them are so superhuman it's hard to have empathy?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:31 / 03.04.04
I'm fairly sure that I don't give a flying fuck about any characters that are supposed to be 'gritty' men, men 'on the edge', men with 'a terrible secret'. I'm afraid that includes those you've mentioned, Stoatie. They show the same complete lack of imagination that gave rise to all the Sonic clones ten years ago - Aero the Acrobat! Bubsy the Bobcat! Crash Bandicoot! Fucky the Fishstick! Any and all of Rare's animal characers! - or all the Lara clones that followed in Tomb Raider's wake.

The characters I want are ones that actually possess character. The Grunts in Halo - funny little chickenshits who try to gang up on you, then run awway screaming when they realise who you are. Space Channel 5's Ulala - sassy, spunky, funny and funky. The titular character in Treasure's Dynamite Headdy - totally, utterly mad. I can't care about a character unless something about them can make me smile.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:48 / 03.04.04
Randy- get your point, but that's kind of what I meant with Or because the majority of them are so superhuman it's hard to have empathy?

Payne works because he's funny. And because, while a very basic life, they've to an extent bothered giving him a life. Gordon Freeman? What the fuck does he do when he's not running around Black Mesa shooting stuff?

To be honest, I actually care more about my Sims than about most characters in my favourite games... but I think that's a sorry state of affairs.

I *love* (in a very shallow way) most of the characters on Space Colony, for example... they fall out, they have personal problems, they're all endearing, cartoony and funny... but I don't actually CARE about them, except insofar as they help me get through the game. (Well, okay, maybe Stig... Stig rocks.) If my colony were to get hit by an asteroid, I'd feel gamer's frustration but no real sadness.

I dunno... I always cared more about the little R2 units in Jedi Outcast than the Jedi... maybe there's something wrong with me...
 
 
VonKobra,Scuttling&Slithering
13:53 / 03.04.04
I have always cared deeply for Rikku.

I plan to ensconce her in Denim and praise her cute hairdo if ever I become pixelated.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
14:32 / 03.04.04
I too hold Deus Ex in high esteem but don't give a credit about JC. I do, however, like Jock, and wish there was a way to stop Sandra Renton running off.
As regards other games, I have immense fondness for Guybrush Threepwood, Bernard Bernoulli and Sam+ Max. Ah Lucasarts, creators of the adorably twisted...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:00 / 03.04.04
Stoatie> I guess that's because the human characters inevitably end up acting like robots, whereas the robots are supposed to act that way, so any problems with their AI, scripting or whatever don't wreck the illusion. I can accept that a droid will occasionally go a bit wonky and start repeating the same sentences over and over again. There's a tiny bit about this in this month's Edge, one of the columnists saying that his favourite bits in the original Star Wars trilogy were "that bit in 'The Empire Strikes Back' where Darth Vader suddenly jumps to his death, for no apparent reason" and "that hilarious moment of slapstick in 'A New Hope'... where Luke can't get through a door because Princess Leia and Hans Solero are in his way."

There's always Final Fantasy VII's Aeris, whose death about a third of the way through the game supposedly had gamers worldwide sobbing like little children who've just seen a puppy get run over by a bus full of clowns. Personally, I think that had a lot to do with the fact that Aeris was a cipher, largely free of personality other than being a bit mystical and in need of protection - a real hentai wet dream of a stereotype if I ever saw one. It also made people give a shit because all of a sudden events were taken out of their hands and there was nothing they could do to save here - the death was scripted and unavoidable. The scene was directed really well, too, but these things have nothing to do with the character herself.

Can you make a controllable character that players care about, rather than just find endearing? I dunno.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:10 / 03.04.04
Personally, I think that had a lot to do with the fact that Aeris was a cipher, largely free of personality other than being a bit mystical and in need of protection - a real hentai wet dream of a stereotype if I ever saw one.

Not familiar with the FFs, I'm afraid... but wouldn't it be cool if minor characters could actually make you give a shit because they'd been written well?

The whole thing about whether a controllable character can be written well while still giving the player freedom is kind of what I'm getting at.

I still think Payne comes close... he's funny, you get a lot of insight into his backstory- but the game is so scripted, it's more like you're watching a film. I'd like to see something more freeform where this approach was taken. IF... that's possible.

Having said that... I've never played an MMORPG (too slow a connection). But if anyone here does... how does that work in terms of "character" in a literary, rather than RPG sense?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:39 / 03.04.04
Character's a notion that's almost entirely alien to a lot of MMORPGs in the Everquest mould, from my experience - the RP bit of the name only exists in terms of the use of stats. They're more about bragging rights ("look at *my* level") than anything else. I think part of the problem there is that the players' actions have little to no effect on the gameworld.

That said, there are stories of people identifying with their MMORPG characters in obsessive and vaguely worrying ways. It's just that they're only characters in the same sense as E. Randy Dupre or Stoatie da burninator are - people rarely play them as anything other than themselves.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:48 / 03.04.04
(By the way, Stoatie, this:



is Felicia from Capcom's Vampire beat 'em up series. The storyline sees her becoming a nun when you finish the game playing as her )
 
 
The Strobe
18:21 / 03.04.04
I deeply cared for Harry Watts, whom I guarantee none of you have ever met; he was my character for Fallout 1. I got quite into some of the characters; Ian was a mouthy shit who never died but should have; Tycho was a great guy, handy with a shotgun, and he got savaged by a Deathclaw. That stung. I never picked up Dogmeat, but I did pick up that female ganger - not Jain, I think - who was very passionate, very agressive, nice girl, but doomed to die young. She did, on the end of a .44 magnum round.

Harry's descendant Jonah, who I played in Fallout 2, wasn't so nice; I never really got anywhere with him.

Fallout's one of the few times I actually cared not just about NPCs, but about my PC too. And I really cared about all those Ghouls whom I basically genocided (accidentally) in Noctropolis. That's a plot device you'd need to play it to understand.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
18:27 / 03.04.04
Yeah, wiping out Necropolis with my selfishness traumatised me as well. And it's all your fault.
 
 
Constitution Hill
18:56 / 03.04.04
I think the trouble with JC Denton, as with most first-person games, is that your character is mostly an invisible cypher for your actions. It's much easier to give a character character in 3rd-person. Which is why Guybrush Threepwood gets my vote. Though the Nameless One from Planescape Torment is a pretty close 2nd, with Lei Wulong from Tekken 3 sitting pretty in 3rd.

[ and i'd have to pick Irvine from VIII over Rikku ]
 
 
fluid_state
19:37 / 03.04.04
Yeah, there's a mention from Warren Spector about his JC Denton character, where he says that JC had his personality surgically removed on purpose. He wanted players to denote his personality through their actions in the game; add a sense of immersiveness and control, like. The guy from torment wasn't really what you'd call big on personality, but he was a fascinating character. The more you learn (what little you do) about him, the more you want to know exactly what heinous shit he'd done to be so damn cursed.

Gordon Freeman? He was awesome! Okay, he never said anything, but you have to love a skinny lab-geek in power armor whose paradigm gravitates toward a crowbar when threatened by aliens. Freeman rules.

mmm. All my favorite characters are the cyphers- personality-less vehicles for my actions. Oddly enough, I liked Freeman better than Denton, even though they both have the soul of an empty pop can. I guess it's a matter of finding a graphical avater that seems more in line with my self image (skinny geek, not 6'7 cyborg death machine). It's tough to give a character a personality when you want to include an element of choice. The guy from Jedi Academy totally lacks that "Dark Side Fuzzy" that you're supposedly tempted with later. Kyle Katarn (from Dark Forces II, specifically) was good, though.

Second Guybrush, though. He was hapless like I'm hapless.
 
 
Grey Area
21:02 / 03.04.04
Guybrush Threepwood. Has there ever been a more incompetent apprentice pirate?
 
 
netbanshee
05:35 / 04.04.04
I got a feel for James Sunderland from the Silent Hill 2 game while controlling him through his delusions. I think it's an important part of the game delivery and concept that really puts the whole story together. It's also something that doesn't show up in many games when it really should. Sort of that unconcious link to the interactivity of game playing.

Oh.. and of course, Ms. Pacman...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:44 / 04.04.04
I did care a fair amount about many of the NPCs in Deus Ex- specifically the hostages I accidentally blew up in the siege in the subway station. I think that was more guilt than empathy, though.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
17:51 / 04.04.04
Well, old skool wise I do like a bit of Tails, he seemed cool. I mean he's an aviating fox with multiple tails who can fly! Also he's a sidekick, they always seemed to have the most fun, buggering off before the boss fights to have a cup of tea and everything.

I quite like the Master Chief from Halo, his manly man voice is the most manly ever but have to agree about the grunts. They're exactly what I'd do if I were Tron style stuck in a videogame and saw a psychotic killer with a shotgun running towards me.

Big shoutout to me in Championship Manager, best characterisation ever. "Michael Owen has spoken at a press conference saying how pleased he is to come to $CLUB and work with their respected manager $NAME." Always gives me a kick.
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
09:55 / 05.04.04
's kinda obvious who my favourite character is, really. Sephiroth was great, too, probably the FF series best villain ever, and Squall from FF8 was kinda cool.
In terms of the female FF characters, my heart will forever belong to FFX's Lulu. It's such a travesty they married her off to Wakka in the sequel...
 
 
Source
10:47 / 05.04.04
Currently, my favourite video game character is Tommy Vercetti of Vaaaaaiiiii-shitteeeey! Bonno estente.
 
 
mkt
16:50 / 05.04.04
May I be the fourth to fondly recommend Guybrush Threepwood. When I was younger I actually fancied him. No, I don't know, either. Computer + no friends makes Misty an odd girl.

Rit and Tam from Rodland were just adorable. Even when they were beating fwuffy wabbits to death with their magic wands. When you got killed they cried.

The first few guys in Cannon Fodder always earned my respect and affection, too.

I can't think of any modern game characters I feel that kind of affection for. This either means I am becoming better adjusted, or that games designers are getting lazier.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
17:10 / 05.04.04
Are video game characters generally unsympathetic because the creators don't care about that aspect? Or because the majority of them are so superhuman it's hard to have empathy?

In games which emulate action movies, they're actually designed to be as generically macho as possible, so that a wide array of men will be able to project themselves onto the role. Ever look at an electrical socket and see a little face there? Oh, wait, your European electrical sockets are shaped funny. Um, ever look at the top of a toaster and see a guy yelling? Same principle.
 
 
Saint Keggers
18:48 / 05.04.04
Zak McKraken...ah the good time we had together.
 
 
The Strobe
18:58 / 05.04.04
Ah, the wee guys in Cannon Fodder - Stu, Jops, Jez, et al. Yeah, when you finally had lost all the first four, it was pretty gutting. Lovely the way monosyllabic names and tiny sprites make you so attached to a character.
 
 
Axolotl
19:05 / 05.04.04
When you lost one to a pungi stick *shudder*. It still makes wince to think of it. Amazing how they did that with such tiny tiny sprites.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:07 / 05.04.04
Kite was my favourite on Cannon Fodder...

come to think of it, that was a game that really did evince sympathy.
 
 
fluid_state
23:34 / 05.04.04
My god, I forgot all about Cannon Fodder, and I played it last month. I used to love those little guys. Trying to keep "favorites" breathing was more challenging than the actual game.
 
 
---
01:06 / 06.04.04
I like Dante from Devil May Cry. I love the way he rips the piss out of whatever boss your about to fight in the game, and his magic and moves.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
01:12 / 06.04.04
And with the mention of [i]Cannon Fodder[/i], aren't we back to the whole biz about otherwise blank characters being empathised with because the player's created their personalities themselves? You know - building up a backstory (in [i]Cannon Fodder[/i], you make your own backstory for the soldiers as they progress through the game - so and so was at the Battle of Blah, where he bravely took on five enemies with rocket launchers while so and so and so and so provided covering fire) and attributing them with personality types yourself? It's what I was saying about Aeris earlier - arguably, she lacks identity because the best way of getting a player to empathise with a character is to let them fill in the blanks themselves.

Constitution Hill's made a really good point about the difference between third and first-person viewpoints. When you're playing first-person, you don't actually *care* about the character, because the character is you in an invincible suit. You die, you press a button, you come back to life near where you popped your clogs. With a third-person viewpoint, you're being made responsible for somebody else. When that individual dies, you're forced to see the consequences of your failure. I suspect that they tried to get a similar effect in Deus Ex with the switch in viewpoint, but it fails because the forced change hammers home the unreality of the situation.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
08:28 / 06.04.04
Link! See what Randy says above.
 
 
Jester
12:04 / 06.04.04
Constitution Hill's made a really good point about the difference between third and first-person viewpoints. When you're playing first-person, you don't actually *care* about the character, because the character is you in an invincible suit. You die, you press a button, you come back to life near where you popped your clogs. With a third-person viewpoint, you're being made responsible for somebody else. When that individual dies, you're forced to see the consequences of your failure. I suspect that they tried to get a similar effect in Deus Ex with the switch in viewpoint, but it fails because the forced change hammers home the unreality of the situation.

I do see what you mean here. But I think it's partially because of the paucity of game writing, as much as the limitations of a 1st person game. I mean, it's a pretty unreal situation anyway. It's not really an extension of your self that is blowing shit up: you are 'in character', in a game world completely seperate from reality. Personally, I think there could be better writing in games, forming a character more solidly, without it seeming jarring.
But, I mean, maybe my problem also comes from being a girl and playing those games.

The Final Fantasy games seem to have it half right: the story lines are a lot stronger than most games, but that story isn't ever under your control. You participate in sequences of fights - in which a character is yet again reduced to it's 'stats' and weaponry, etc. Also the fights are boring. Really you are just playing in order to get to the next set piece: which is actually something seperate from the interactive 'gaming' part of playing.

All that said, I can't help but thinking better storylines and better characterisation would make playing games much more fun in the long run. Even just a 'blank' character operating in an interesting world full of interesting characters that you can interact with interestingly might work...
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
14:01 / 06.04.04
What does anyone here know about breaking into game writing? I don't want to show my hand too much, but y'all have entered an area close to my recent endeavors. I've written 3 character-driven RPGs in the last month and am sort of at a loss for what to do with them. I know someone at Rockstar, but they'll fuckin' steal it.
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
14:13 / 06.04.04
Anybody played Knights Of The Old Republic? It's really quite open, in that you have a a small set of tasks you *have to* accomplish, which are broken down into sub-tasks, some of which are optional and most of which you have a choice as to how you accomplish them. And then lots of side-tasks, too, which you can ignore or do whatever way you like. The manner in which you do things changes your Light Side/Dark Side (of the force, that is) standing you have, which in turn changes how other characters interact with you. It's all very nicely done. You even have a fair degree of choice as to what your avatar will look like.
Just thought I'd mention it...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:26 / 06.04.04
Have you thought about getting involved with one of the many mod communities, Qalyn?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
14:33 / 06.04.04
Very briefly. Blerg factor = very high.
 
 
netbanshee
14:56 / 06.04.04
Rockstar connections do seem like a good thing to have. Lots of collaboration with design companies as well. Just watch your property. But an interest in gaming and the time put into your projects seems like an in for you.

I'm definitely a bit curious about getting in on the gaming industry as well. I'd love to be a part of some teams but unfortunately the companies I follow are all in Japan... language barriers abound. The USA offices pretty much handle the porting or othertypes of gaming I'm not into so I wouldn't look there.

I have seen some uni's picking up a games and media curriculum. There's one at a community college across the river from me and I think I might be able to pull a few classes and add it to my interactive background. So there are options out there worth exploring.

Would be nice to see a fresh crop of people get a hand in development. There's tons of room for games that bring new concepts and interactivity that are less tied to hardware and technology capabilities.

This stuff need a new thread?
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply