Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Head Shop >

Are power differentials in relationships a bad thing in themselves?

10:09 / 01.04.04

Given that "we're all aware that every relationship has power differentials", what makes those differentials valid or invalid?

Is it okay to have any amount of power as long as you use it right? I.e. the right amount of power is found at the limit of that person's ability to use it responsibly? In which case, the fairly arbitrary distribution of power among people in practice is not a problem as long as they don't abuse it?

Or should power be judged according to that person's right to have it rather than their ability to use it? So that if you feel someone else has more power in a relationship, when you are peers for example, this is wrong in principle and should be addressed?

When, how and why are you happy for others to have more power than you etc.

10:37 / 01.04.04

Studying Sociology are we? I would say that power differentials are something you should work to minimise in your interactions, so as to better communicate with your fellow human beings. But I'm a great big tree-hugging hippy so what do I know.

sdv (non-human)

12:21 / 01.04.04

foucault or hegel ?

i

12:21 / 01.04.04

Isn't some kind of power differential necessary for anything to happen, any decision to be made? Whether it takes the form of social status, money or knowledge, you have to either exercise or submit to power in order for stuff to happen. I guess the definition of power above implies a kind of money/status based power but, even if you limit the ways in which these powers are exercised, isn't there almost always going to be a differential based on experience/knowledge? Guess it depends on what you define as power. It would be nice if everyone had or exercised the same amount of power but how would that work?
The above seems to imply that these power differentials are static but surely they change according to individual and situation. Is using power responsibly as much a case of limiting how often you exercise it as well as how much?
This is probably all off topic but hey, I'm new here and just felt the need to get my feet wet.

Tryphena Absent

12:29 / 01.04.04

Hegel! Hegel!

Erm... sorry, got carried away.

12:39 / 01.04.04

That's cool, i. And the point about power relationships not being static is an important one. Maybe I'm focusing on enduring power differentials more than temporary ones, so e.g. if someone takes on a particular job, they may be giving orders to get that job done, but that's no great reflection on the people involved.

I think I'm talking more about interpersonal relationships, which are more negotiated between individuals rather than being determined by external power structures (like where a manager has certain power over staff because the organisation gives it to him, for example). It's the aspect of interpersonal negotiation I'm interested in.

Very broad topic I know. See Anna's first post on p2 of 'Is paedophilia bad' and responses to it to get a feel for the background. What actually determines the power differentials being discussed?

Tryphena Absent

12:53 / 01.04.04

I think I'm talking more about interpersonal relationships, which are more negotiated between individuals rather than being determined by external power structures

This is a very difficult topic because as you highlight above, it's really about individual circumstance but to discount external power structures entirely is to misinterpret the way our culture works. Now, to turn to the summary, the notion of power in interpersonal relationships as judged from the outside begins with a person's ability to use power responsibly. The problem, when bringing paedophilia in to account is not only that the older person is being irresponsible but that the younger is bound not to have the same amount of power. The younger person is simply not old enough to have the same perception of one single event never mind the range of events that make up a relationship and the older person does not have a right to control someone, no matter their age, through a relationship.

13:56 / 01.04.04

Now, to turn to the summary, the notion of power in interpersonal relationships as judged from the outside begins with a person's ability to use power responsibly.

Could you give your reasons for favouring theory (a) over theory (b)?

07:23 / 02.04.04

power differentials are something you should work to minimise in your interactions

In what sorts of circumstances? My first reaction to the thread title is just to think, well, if we never had relationships with power differentials, no-one would ever be able to teach or parent.

Though there's, again, a potentially crucial difference in modes of power. I'd argue that power isn't a single, undifferentiated 'thing' which is only exercised differently: the idea that 'all relationships have power differentials' glosses over really important differences in the kinds, extents, constructions and effects of power.

So. A teacher/student relationship should not be one where the teacher can, for example, beat the child because she is in a bad mood, or order the child to submit to public ridicule for making a mistake. But there has to be a relationship where the teacher has the power to tell the class to shut up and do some work, or order one child to leave the classroom if they're being disruptive, and the child or children' don't have the reciprocal power to shut up or exclude the teacher. Similarly, a parent shouldn't have absolute power, or 'domination', over a child, but a child should not have the same rights to tell a parent what to do as the parent has to tell the child.

The parent/child one is maybe one of the most interesting examples in this context, because the teacher/pupil child can be modelled on a sort of 'social contract' thing where both parties sign up to the 'ground rules' for appropriate interaction within the classroom - so not only temporary and consensual power relations, but also specifically localized. None of those mitigating criteria apply to a parent/child relationship.

10:55 / 02.04.04

A teacher/student relationship should not be one where the teacher can, for example, beat the child because she is in a bad mood, or order the child to submit to public ridicule for making a mistake. But there has to be a relationship where the teacher has the power to tell the class to shut up and do some work, or order one child to leave the classroom if they're being disruptive, and the child or children' don't have the reciprocal power to shut up or exclude the teacher.

Absolutely Deva. I suggest minimising power differentials in interpersonal relations (any time you interact with another human being) in order to aid communication. I'm not nearly naive enough to think it possible to eliminate power differentials in your daily interactions.

I believe that every interaction you have with another human is so ridden with various different kinds of power differentials you may not even be able to identify them never mind eliminate. Well, not unless you analysed every conversation with a 10,000 word dissertation and who has the commitment for that?

I do think it is worthwhile minimising what power differentials you are aware of between yourself and another if you are interested in meaningful dialogue with them. It is difficult for true communication to happen if you are spending most of the time sizing each other up for dominance (social, economic etc.), resenting anothers dominance or submitting to it.

Hence why a good teacher wont spend all their time allowing children to run riot in the classroom but wont spend all their time shouting at them either. In either of those situations the kids have stopped listening and communicating both of which are necessary for good learning. Teachers must minimise those power differentials in order to teach effectively.

In my humble opinion

13:41 / 02.04.04

How do these cover the different forms of power?

(And how about the website itself?)

No star here laces

12:08 / 04.04.04

Um seeing as power differentials are a matter of power and not of morals one might very validly claim that the justification for a power differential is its existence...

Don't help your discussion none though.