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Sex And The City

 
  

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Goodness Gracious Meme
15:59 / 22.03.04
So, do/did you watch it. Hate it? Screaming fan. whatever it meant to you, it's over now. And I know that some of you watch it.

What did you think of the ending?
 
 
The Falcon
16:25 / 22.03.04
I watched it out of duty, and despite the fact we had Dog Soldiers out the video shop. I had seen like two episodes before, and they were both better. And I didn't like them.
 
 
Ganesh
20:21 / 22.03.04
I started off despising it, then found myself softening as the various series' rolled on. Watched the documentary before the Last Episode Ever, and realised that one of the elements that still irritates me is the whole breathy 'wow, it's not scared to talk about anything!' hyperbole surrounding the show. That and Samantha's annoying repertoire of sub-Jessica Rabbit postural and vocal tics.

The ending? Mmm. Compared with the Charlotte-making-up-with-Baldie episode, it left me cold. As well as a sense of general character betrayal with the Carrie storyline (after all this time, Big suddenly decides that hey, commitment's grrreat?), I don't think I was overly paranoid in discerning a deeply annoying 'France - and possibly Europe in general - screws you up' subtext.

Mmm again.
 
 
■
22:04 / 22.03.04
Hate the series and all it stands for, but have to make this point:

Carrie betrays her new French friends and chooses to go with Baryshnikov. He makes a mistake and forgets about her for a while. She sits and doesn't make a fuss, expecting him to solve all her problems and come back, lavishing her with attention at his exhibition which is the sole purpose of the visit. She runs away, betraying him after saying that she wouldn't leave.

She is clearly in the wrong, acting passive aggressive as a defence. In order that the heroine is not seen as the bad guy, the writers magic up a slap, vindicating her shallow posturing. She then has the justification to betray him even further and run off with the model of western masculinity who turned her down a hundred times. Gosh, it's all so empowering.

Every feminist in the world should be ashamed of this shit. All the men already are.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:40 / 22.03.04
I have to say I was rather hoping that she would go around to the bookshop the next day and say that she was terribly sorry that she screwed up, explain why, take them out to lunch, sign their books...

Ultimately, she seemed to decide instead that being in a relationship was enough to justify screwing over anybody else, behaving as selfishly as one might want, and generally sacrificing everything to the great god Boyfriend. Eugh.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
23:00 / 22.03.04
Yes! You're all so accurate I don't have to say anything. Just... yes.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:21 / 23.03.04
Also: don't abandon what you know. Don't take risks. Stay where you are. Never force change.

Cosmopolitan! Witty! Daring!
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
08:32 / 23.03.04
Oor. Come now on.

There's the possibility of a movie that has been touted, and this could possibly be the chance to unscrew what you perceive to be a betrayal of being single in the City. Which, as you might know, is the whole point of the series. I have yet to watch the many later episodes, and the latest - where Carrie walks in on Samantha having giving a blow job to a mail delivery man - was just... Boring. Compared to the earlier. As if it was playing it safe, now that the seires' profile had been established.

But I do plan on catching this "last" episode when it becomes available near me.
 
 
ibis the being
14:45 / 23.03.04
I've only seen one episode but I loathe the show. I loathed the episode I saw and I loathe the show's effects on certain of my girlfriends. I think it was a weekly lesson on how to be a shitty person, an amoral and vapid wolf in feminists' clothing. I'm depressed at the number of women who've taken it to heart.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:53 / 23.03.04
Friday night, I watched the last episode. Later that weekend, I found myself wondering: at some point, did the writers of the show start catering for the "love to hate it" viewers by deliberately subjecting Carrie Bradshaw to a series of humiliations? Because that little French girl who smacked her on the top of the head was my favourite character in the whole show, ever.

The next day, whilst E Randy was mocking the show, Flyboy was showing the mock. Or something...
 
 
Warewullf
15:35 / 23.03.04
Carrie is a horrible person and why anybody likes her or, gods forbid, admires her is beyond me.

For example, when she was "abandoned" by Alex in the museum , how hard would it have been for her to just go up to him after five minutes and say "hey, you seem ok now so I'm gonna head off to my party."
But no. As someone else said, she does the passive-aggressive thing instead. As always. She's such a little bitch.

Charlotte and Harry's "this is our baby" scene did bring a little tear to my eye, though.
 
 
LDones
06:43 / 24.03.04
Sex and the City is not a good show - but after watching a bit of it I began to understand the allure. It's horrifically shallow television, but it is charming if you don't take it seriously.

A dear friend of mine was very pleased with the final episode because, she said, it didn't attempt to be any less shallow or more serious than the rest of the show - which was as it should have been.

There's a lot to relate to about sexual habits in the story, but other than that it's a bit mindless. I haven't met too many people who enjoy it that won't admit that.
 
 
Nobody's girl
08:25 / 24.03.04
I fucking hate everything Sex and the City stands for. Everything. It is utter shit. The characters are all utterly despicable.

Just had to put my opinion out there. Sometimes when I hear people talking about it I feel like the last person alive with clear perception about this piece of shit. "Oooh, it's the last episode, isn't it sad?" How anyone can like or find entertaining any aspect of the show is beyond me. I've watched about 5 episodes in total and at the end of each one I feel like I need to floss my brain.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
09:56 / 24.03.04
I have to say I was rather hoping that she would go around to the bookshop the next day and say that she was terribly sorry that she screwed up, explain why, take them out to lunch, sign their books...

Yes - by that point I was practically screaming "You've spent all your time complaining that you don't have any friends, and now you're just ditching people who - by some freak - seem to like you! Why? Why?"

I was also in the room at the same time as the 'documentary', which I found more irritating than every episode I've ever seen, combined. The people who talk about it always dither between the two poles of "Women always talk like this, we're just reflecting it" and "No-one ever talked about sex before this show. We invented talking about sex". Maddening.

at some point, did the writers of the show start catering for the "love to hate it" viewers by deliberately subjecting Carrie Bradshaw to a series of humiliations?

I've always noticed this, actually... whenever my girlfriends opine that (grinds teeth) they like Carrie, I always feel the need to point out that for someone who projects as being that cool, she certainly falls over / steps in dog shit / generally demonstrates poor spatial awareness a lot of the time
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
10:31 / 24.03.04
People who should be summarily executed:

- "I've watched so many episodes of this and that TV show, that I can certifiably say that it sucks. It sucks. And I love being able to voice my opinion, which is that it sucks. Do you hear me? It sucks."

- "I've only seen an episode or two, but this gives me enough material to say that it sucks. It sucks. And I love being able to comment reductively, without even understanding the phenomenon that the TV series was. 'Cos it sucks."

- "I hate this person, therefore the TV series sucks. It sucks."

Yes. They should be summarily executed.
 
 
autran
10:43 / 24.03.04
The documentary was indeed the worst kind of corporate-style programming. Apart from that a few details annoyed further:

Not enough of whoever plays Miranda (?Cynthia Nixon) whose acting is the best thing in the show.

A whole section about Carrie's great wardrobe when she must be the worst dressed female on TV.

To buy the idea that Sex And The City means something, stands for something, or presents values or characters that are in any way admirable is just laughable. However, it does work as fiction.

Declaration: I already own the first four seasons on DVD, and will get the rest in due course.
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
11:26 / 24.03.04
You certainly can, ERD.

More:

- %%People who feel the need to be smart-assey on the expense of other more knowledgeable sources.%%
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:00 / 24.03.04
Wait, I must have blanked out while I was typing "I've never watched the show before," or "I absolutely hate this show but still watch it."

No, no I didn't. It turns out that I never actually said either of those things.

I watched a lot of it. Not all of it, I'll admit, because it was one of those programs that I'd have on in the background or sit down to if I didn't have something else to do. It wasn't something that particularly spoke to me, but - guess what, dark son - I kind of enjoyed it. It was funny. I'm sure they thought they were doing something different and original and, hey, maybe they were originally. But the fact is that by the last episode they'd resorted to cheap schmaltz. Their main character - who, yes, you're supposed to like and yes, that is rather a central point to the enjoyment of this series - was shown to be nothing but a coward. Inadvertently, obviously, because the writers intend her unbelievable petulance to be a decent solution. Things not going your way? Run away!

What's the final message of the series? It's this: empowerment and personal repsonsibility are all very well and good, but at the end of the day what a woman really needs is a strong man to fall back on, a fairy tale prince to come riding to her rescue and cover her in cotton wool and puppies. Fuck it, they even give up on Samantha and Miranda. They, too, can only find true happiness if it's got a pair of bollocks and comes with a printed note saying 'commitment'.

Whoops. Sorry. I just realised that I really shouldn't be disagreeing with someone so much more knowledgable than me.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
12:21 / 24.03.04
Fuck it, they even give up on Samantha and Miranda. They, too, can only find true happiness if it's got a pair of bollocks and comes with a printed note saying 'commitment'.

Did you think so, Randy? I had rather liked Miranda's story arc over the last series / from about the middle of the series before -and thought that, particularly in the final episode, it was pointed out quite well that her getting her commitment & pair of bollocks combo doesn't necessarily mean that everything was going to be easy, or even nice (as in, her moving away from her friends for her family and having to look after Steve's mum). Obviously, these aren't particularly unusual things to have to face, but I liked the fact that she was facing them at all -compared to Carrie's storyline, where she just seemed to be letting things happen to her rather than dealing with them.

But all this defence of the storyline could just be because I've always liked Miranda and, indeed, Cynthia Nixon...
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:27 / 24.03.04
I like to sum up the show like this;

"I have cancer."

"I can't have children."

"Yeah, but what about Big, huh? What about me?"

"Go get our girl."
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
12:55 / 24.03.04
Whoops. Sorry. I just realised that I really shouldn't be disagreeing with someone so much more knowledgable than me.

No, I'm sorry. I attempted to broaden the discussion a little bit - even though I have yet to decide upon the later episodes mainly because I am usually nowhere near a TV set when the Danish channel airs them. I can only make my voice heard, up to episode forty-something - and of that, I'm not even sure.

But the show is/was a phenomenon at least, and judging by some reductive comments, deserved a bit more than what was being put forward.
 
 
gingerbop
14:15 / 24.03.04
Steve doesn't have a pair of bollocks, Randy. Hence the mercy fuck and Brady. Veering off for a second- Steve is called Steve Brady, is he not? And the baby is called Brady? Miranda and Steve then married, so is he now called Brady Brady?

Humm. I dont think I love to hate it, because I do like it. But even more, I love when she wears fucking awful dresses and steps in dog-shit. But is that not just inate in all of us, liking to watch people more successful than us, albeit fictionally, fall on their arses?
 
 
Ganesh
17:18 / 24.03.04
Yeah, but the turd subtext was 'Europe's shitty; even dogs have it in for Americans'...
 
 
Loomis
17:56 / 24.03.04
I bet she couldn't wait to get back to America so she could step in some Freedom Turds.
 
 
Ganesh
18:50 / 24.03.04
I fucking hate everything Sex and the City stands for.

I do think it'd be a tad more interesting if the individuals who made this sort of statement spent a moment or two elaborating on what they felt Sex and the City did 'stand for'. It'd give the bile some flavour...
 
 
Nobody's girl
04:59 / 25.03.04
I do think it'd be a tad more interesting if the individuals who made this sort of statement spent a moment or two elaborating on what they felt Sex and the City did 'stand for'. It'd give the bile some flavour...

Just remember you asked for it.

From my analysis Sex and the City is-

a) A feminist backlash TV series, for a better elaboration of backlash politics I suggest reading Susan Faludi's "Backlash" which identifies the phenomenon perfectly. Amazon page for "Backlash"

b) Yet another tiresome celebration of how great it is to be privileged in America.

c) Encouraging dangerous stereotypes. I find their portrayal of gay men pretty offensive, to pick out just one of the awful stereotypes that are championed by this series.

d) Pretending to describe "alternative" lifestyles when it actually reinforces status quo politics.

e) Degrading to human sexuality.

f) Horrendously materialistic.

g) Racist.

h) Petty.

I would elaborate further but college beckons, so bring it on!
 
 
Whisky Priestess
07:32 / 25.03.04
Eeenteresting ... how and why was it racist? Is it a visibility thing? Because the only ethnic character I remember recently was the rather interesting Robert, the black professional nice guy whom Miranda couldn't commit to and then thought she was being stalked by but wasn't, in a hilarious sequence of misunderstandings. I mean, he wasn't even a stereotype, let alone a negative one.

And as for its portrayal of gay men - isn't it at least partly written by gay men? Who if they want to write stereotypes (or archetypes, or cliches or truisms) about gay life are surely allowed to do so, cf Jewish comedians tellish Jewish jokes?

Who am I kidding? I only watch it for the shoes.
 
 
_pin
08:32 / 25.03.04
It's racist because European's a shifty, except Magda, who seemed to turn in to an angel at the end, having taught Miranda the meaning of love. But she couldn't even work a TiVo, and would see more of Brady then Miranda, clearly marking her out as suspicious.

Carrie was clearly in the wrong over Aleksander; she just evidently shouldn't have been with him because she has almost no conception of being creative, or even sympathy. Presumably, having decided she could write her column from her boyfriend's computer, he should decide that he can make art from his grilfriend's country. And he hasn't fucking worked for 20 years. One more week, and they'd have had 20 years in Paris. For fucking crying out loud...

Charlotte hasn't had a plot for the last two months; they finished her off to early and then gave her a dog to have plot lines through. Which is a shame, because when she got back with Harry, it was probablly the one scene that got me there. Miranda, as mentioned before, learns the meaning of love. I actually think Miranda works the most, not being a Bride, not being a Mother, not being a Job (in the end) and not even just being a Clit; look! A real person!

Samantha's just annoying. Yes, women can have sex. Women can have lots of sex, if they like. It's boring when men are defined by having a lot of sex and it's boring when women are.

Also, what's up with women going 'Yeh, I hate it when men treat us like that. All men treat us like that! Men are dogs! It's great seeing women act like that! Yeh! Do to men what men do to us! Having sex is fun, let's have sex with lots of men' (a have a lot of hallmates who, over time, have said all these things. Every one of them). Do I even need to point out the problems there? Like to have sex with lots of men (good) you need men who have sex with women (bad) and treat them like shit (good when you do, bad when they).

And it's raised a whole generation of women to say things like 'All gay men are really attractive' and 'I want a gay best friend so we can talk about make-up and interior decorating' and 'All lesbians are fat'. See how this show breaks down misconceptions?? All misconceptions broken by this show!

Also, it's not a fantastic model of femninist sisterhood, as I've heard some people say; they hate all other women! Don't have a career? Bad! Married, but don't have the dignity to own a vibrator? Bad! Think her shoes are a bit ugly? Bad!

Berger was hott though, wasn't he?
 
 
Lilly Nowhere Late
09:45 / 25.03.04
dark son: you are MY hero

Loomis: you made me laugh aloud (and this is only the 1st or 2nd time I ever have laughed out while reading BBlith on my own)

Sex And The City was a great and funny show which also made me laugh out loud and now its over and life rolls on. I've never become attatched to a television show in quite the same way. I hope I never do again because trying to keep on a viewing schedule is more than I can honestly cope with.
Richard pointed out the Brady Brady thing as well. I would assume its a deliberate silliness.

I know a best friend of one of the writers. Apparently all the stuff comes from real life happenings, and all the contributors were encouraged to take the piss liberally.

Its funny that it inspires so much analyzation.

And I don't care what you say, I'm buying the whole series(of which I missed a great deal of the first 3 years) and I'm going to watch it and eat chocolate and whenever I feel especially whiny and girly.

You can come over if you want to...
 
 
■
11:16 / 25.03.04
and there we have Dave Sim's feminist critique in a nutshell..
[ducks and runs]
Joke! Joke!
I'll try and explain why I hate it so much when I've finished this damned essay.
 
 
Ganesh
13:01 / 25.03.04
Nobody's Girl: Of course I asked for it; now we've actually got something to discuss!

I agree, broadly speaking with all your points (particularly, and most annoyingly (d)) - although I'm not sure the series 'stands for' them in the sense of being any sort of conscious manifesto ("Viva pettiness!"). I'd say that, rather than being "degrading" to human sexuality, it does pretty much what you described a point earlier: it parades its envelope-pushing credentials while, ultimately, reinforcing conventional stereotypes (we all need a man). I'm also uncertain that its gay characters are necessarily any more offensive than such stereotypes anywhere.

But yeah, Berger was quite sexy. In a pathetic way.
 
 
ibis the being
14:33 / 25.03.04
Also, what's up with women going 'Yeh, I hate it when men treat us like that. All men treat us like that! Men are dogs! It's great seeing women act like that! Yeh! Do to men what men do to us!

This is essentially my problem with the show. I feel that its attempts to turn gender roles on their heads consist mainly of "letting" the women be what they feel [straight] men have always "been allowed" to be - selfish, emotionally shallow, capricious, materialisitic, callous, self-serving, et cetera et cetera. I feel that's insulting to men and women. The human qualities and characteristics it celebrates are not inherent in men or women or both, they're inherent in shitty people. The episode I saw was the one in which Samantha bullies & connives her way into a top - and overbooked - oncologist's appointment book because she is the center of the universe and no one else's cancer is as real or important... it was apalling.

I suppose it would be fine to sort of laugh at and be entertained by their foibles, a la Seinfeld, but that's not the way the show's presented, and not the way it's received, not the way it's viewed & reviewed.
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
15:48 / 25.03.04
selfish, emotionally shallow, capricious, materialisitic, callous, self-serving, et cetera et cetera. I feel that's insulting to men and women.

Hello? You just described my life perfectly. What's wrong with that?
 
 
Loomis
16:12 / 25.03.04
I suppose it would be fine to sort of laugh at and be entertained by their foibles, a la Seinfeld, but that's not the way the show's presented, and not the way it's received, not the way it's viewed & reviewed.

Now this thread is getting near the truth. It seems to me from reading this thread that the majority of the objections are to the show's image, not the show itself. It's perfectly sensible to be irritated when anyone claims that this show is so fantastic, envelope-pushing, liberating, etc. but that should not detract from the show itself.

I've never been a regular watcher of this or any show really, but over the years I've seen around 20-30 episodes. I've probably only seen 1-2 in the last couple of years though, and know nothing of the last series or the ending. When it started I wanted to hate it because of some of the reasons given above. "Do you see how risque we are being? We're women and we talk about dicks, and we swear, we are so liberated, do you see?!" However, I found to my chagrin that there are lots of very funny episodes. Trying to fit each episode into the dodgy container of Carrie's column was tedious at times, but lots of the relationship stuff was quite funny, whatever the downsides of watching a show about a bunch of rich white people with top-drawer (or is that goody-drawer?) lifestyles, gay friends and houses in the Hamptons. It doesn't have any of the brilliance that Seinfeld had in the way of episode and series structure, but it was frequently very witty.

Besides, what else you gonna watch?

*looks for other shows discussed in this forum*

Big Brother? Buffy? Not for me I'm afraid.



PS. Big wasn't committment-phobic. She broke up with him for not conforming to her image of what a partner should be! Poor misunderstood Big ...
 
 
Nobody's girl
17:00 / 25.03.04
Whisky Priestess-

Eeenteresting ... how and why was it racist? Is it a visibility thing? Because the only ethnic character I remember recently was the rather interesting Robert, the black professional nice guy whom Miranda couldn't commit to and then thought she was being stalked by but wasn't, in a hilarious sequence of misunderstandings. I mean, he wasn't even a stereotype, let alone a negative one.

I saw some of the episodes that Robert was in. My husband pointed out that the black people in the episode we were watching were Robert who whilst being a black doctor was a black Basketball doctor therefore totally acceptable because he's staying within his ghetto (of sorts). Robert was so token it hurts. The other black person in that episode was a fleeting glimpse of a black maid in the posh club they crash. Lovely.

Now please correct me if I'm off base here, I've never been to New York, but isn't it meant to be one of the biggest "melting pots" of ethnic diversity in the world? If so, how come this is never reflected in the series? Perhaps the series writers are trying to highlight the inequities perpetuated by racism? Yeah, if you believe that, you'll believe anything.

And as for its portrayal of gay men - isn't it at least partly written by gay men? Who if they want to write stereotypes (or archetypes, or cliches or truisms) about gay life are surely allowed to do so, cf Jewish comedians tellish Jewish jokes?

I'm a woman. Is it OK if I say that women are all obsessed with clothes, getting a man, cosmo love quizzes and babies? Well, no it's not. Why? Because it's not true and like all stereotypes it damages the group it describes.

BTW (definitions from Dictionary.com)-

Archetype: An original model or type after which other similar things are patterned; a prototype: “‘Frankenstein’... ‘Dracula’... ‘Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde’... the archetypes that have influenced all subsequent horror stories”

Sex in the City has nothing original in it.

Stereotype: A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.

A perfect description of Sex and the City.
 
  

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