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Sigil Porn!

 
  

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PhatMikey
03:41 / 13.03.04
Hi guys!

I'm new to this site, I only discovered it a few hours ago. Anyway, I've been interested in sigil magick, amongst other stuff, for a couple of years now. But I haven't actually got around to doing any. This is going to change very soon, as I'm constructing a few sigils right now, and I'll 'charge' them (probabbly by the old wanking method) in a week or so when I've forgotten what they're for.

Anyway, the reason for my post... to earn a bit of extra cash, I have a few porn sites. Now, before you all write me off as some sleasy Larry Flint type character, I don't produce any of this porn myself. I simply buy some smutty pictures, then knock together some simple websites with the pictures and a few adverts for proper porn sites. Of the several thousand visitors each page gets, a very small percentage will actually sign up for the sponsors site, and I get about £10 for each one. Simple enough eh?

But what has this got to do with sigil magick? Now, when I buy the licence to use these naughty pictures, I'm given the right to add any logo or text I see fit to them (see where I'm going with this?). Some of my sites have been known to have 50,000 visits a day... now think about placing a sigil in the corner of each picture on the page... all those guys wanking off with my sigil in the corner of their screen.

Whet do you guys think of this? Good idea?

All comments, suggestions, abuse, etc. is welcome.

Cheers, PhatMikey.
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
03:52 / 13.03.04
You're brilliant and I love you.
 
 
Nobody's girl
03:57 / 13.03.04
God bless the internet.

What intentions are you thinking of charging the sigils with?
 
 
PhatMikey
04:01 / 13.03.04
No idea yet. I'm mostly worried about the morality of doing it, (quite apart from the moral questions raised by my being a pornographer!), would it be a good idea to have thousands of people I don't know, inadvertantly charging my sigils? How might it affect the outcome?
 
 
phrankphutta
04:12 / 13.03.04
I have no morals.

How much would you charge 'lithers to watermark thier sigils on said pornographic images?
 
 
Nobody's girl
05:30 / 13.03.04
Hmm... morality... fuck. You got me. It sounds like a clever way of channeling energy that would otherwise be going into the ether. Can't really see the harm in it, what's your concern?
 
 
trouser the trouserian
05:41 / 13.03.04
PhatMikey
It sounds a reasonable idea in principle - what I do find rather odd is that you've been, as you say, interested for 2 years, and are only now just getting around to it. Why the inertia? I mean, sigils are not exactly rocket science are they?

would it be a good idea to have thousands of people I don't know, inadvertantly charging my sigils? How might it affect the outcome?

Try it and see. Don't theorise what "might" happen - you'll never get anything done. Why not test it with a sigil to encourage more visitors to your sites, and see if your hit rate goes up?
 
 
LVX23
05:51 / 13.03.04
Yeah, what Shanghai said. My only reservations are around my own curiosity about what your motives may be, the intent of your sigils. Great idea otherwise.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
08:52 / 13.03.04
Whilst hardly qualified to offer an opinion, I too worry about the intent behind these sigils of yours

Potentially you have a great idea and one that most corporate major businesses do either unconsciously or consciously anyway (but to link it with Porn is an inspired idea)

Be careful how you word your intent though (there is a debate on this site that I started about the potential for harm in wording your intent/ sigil)


Anyway, good luck to you if your intentions are honourable
 
 
Tamayyurt
10:27 / 13.03.04
I agree, with the try it and see method... you're about to charge a bunch a sigils, right. Well, put one on the site (and charge the rest using the eank method). Then see which one's manifest first. Which one gets better results. I don't think there's anything wrong with having "thousands of people I don't know, inadvertantly charging my sigils?" I've hidden sigils in comics, and flyers, and done graffiti sigils... I don't see that what you're doing is any different.

Just try it out.
 
 
PhatMikey
12:15 / 13.03.04
Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

Absence, the reason I'm only getting around to using sigils now is mostly due to laziness. Also, I've been a bit worried about dabbling in this stuff, I believe in karma, and have always wondered that if I try to improve my life in some way through a sigil, the universe will, somehow, compensate for that by making life worse for me in another way. Or does that sound stupid?

Anyway, for the past few years, I've been interested in self-improvement books and stuff. I've read things like "As a Man Thinketh" and "The Science of Getting Rich", and "It Works!", as well as stuff by Tony Robbins, Napoleon Hill, and stuff on Psycho-Cybernetics, NLP, and hypnotherapy. Call me a bit slow, but I just sort of realised recently that these things pretty much all do a similar job of 'reprogramming' your sub-conscious mind, or 'higher self' or whatever to get the outcome you desire. Exactly the same job as sigils. So I thought I'd give them a shot.

Phrankphutta, I don't think I'll be offering anybody the chance to have their sigils on my naughty piccies, peddling filth on the internet is so easy that anyone could do it. And how could I be sure that their sigils weren't 'bad'? Some of you guys might want to set up your own porn sites an try it too. Actually, I've been thinking of writing a book on how to do it, sort of a 'Internet Porn for Dummies' thing, maybe I could sigilise "It is my will to actually get around to writing this book, get it published, and make lots of money" or something.

Joetheneophyte, don't worry about my intent, I'm not a 'bad person' or anything, and since reading another post on here, and my S.O.I.s have "Avoiding harm to anyone or anything" at the end of them. My sigils on the dirty pictures would probably be along the lines of making more money from porn, and stuff.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
07:35 / 15.03.04
Also, I've been a bit worried about dabbling in this stuff, I believe in karma, and have always wondered that if I try to improve my life in some way through a sigil, the universe will, somehow, compensate for that by making life worse for me in another way. Or does that sound stupid?

PhatMikey

This belief you have in 'karma'. Is it something that you only apply to worrying about magic or is it something you use for other areas of your life. Before setting up you porn sites, did you do a lot of soul-searching - wondering for example, how you'd feel if you found out that some old guy dropped dead of a heart-attack whilst wanking over your pics, or if they inspired a rapist or serial killer to go out and do their stuff? Are you careful not to buy products that are mass-produced by low-paid workers in third-world sweatshops? Do you boycott Coca-cola 'cos you don't agree with what they're getting up to in Columbia? Do you not use a car 'cos you're worried about causing damage to the ozone layer?

My point here, is that its pretty much impossible IMO to act in the world without being involved in chains of relationships which affect other people, even if in very small ways. You can't avoid accruing Karma - it is literally the result of action, and you can't avoid influencing people in ways you are not going to be able to predict or control, whether it be through doing a sigil, flogging porn or just randomly enountering someone in the street.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
07:44 / 15.03.04
absence of gravitas

that made sense

I too worry a lot about the effects of my SIGILS

I spend a lot of time trying to get the intent wording correct, to at least do my best to not impact on others unduly

I know it is impossible but my favourite phrase to date is tagging onto my Sigils

"........avoiding harm to anyone or anything"



Please have a look at my latest thread about Ethics Therapy and Magick

I would welcome your input on this issue and anybody else on here who might have an opinion/any advice


Cheers



Joe
 
 
LykeX
08:11 / 15.03.04
my S.O.I.s have "Avoiding harm to anyone or anything" at the end of them

Chicken

But seriously, How do you expect to gain anything without harm to someone else? If you make money, someone has to be paying you, right.
 
 
PhatMikey
15:17 / 15.03.04
LykeX, well ideally if somebody was paying you money, it would be in return for a service you provided to them, so nobody would be harmed in that sort of scenario.

I'm going to go ahead and create a sigil then whack it up on a porn site, I'll post the link so you can all see it (you perverts!) I've accuired a program that will put the sigil in the bottom corner of the pictures so that it looks like a corporate logo of sorts, and also it will 'watermark' all the pictures with a very faint transparent large version of the same sigil over the whole image. I'm hoping that the sub-conscious minds(?) of all the people wanking at the pictures will pick up on this without them even realising it's there.

The S.O.I. will be something along the lines of "It is my will to earn at least $500 from from this page within the next two weeks" or something.

Do you guys think I should charge the sigil myself as well, or just put it up there and let all the 'activity' charge the sigil for me?

Cheers.
 
 
LVX23
15:26 / 15.03.04
Bear in mind that most material invocations for wordly gains will almost inevitably carry some degree of bad luck. The Deal with the Devil, as it were.

Personally, I would make it something a bit more innocuous like "It is my will that my porn site will generate good will and good fortune" or something like that.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:39 / 15.03.04
Bear in mind that most material invocations for wordly gains will almost inevitably carry some degree of bad luck. The Deal with the Devil, as it were.

Why? Can't say I've ever experienced this "bad luck" when enchanting for "worldly gains" as you put it.
 
 
beautifultoxin
18:25 / 15.03.04
I'd be more interested to hear from magicians who have crafted their own pornographic images as sigils themselves -- chaos ritual sex cam shows, photo stills of cum splashing in divinatory patterns, putting your own body on the line as the magical tool.

As amoral as I am at times, I think this is far stronger magic than to just insert your own sigil amongst the wankings of others. Ethically, I can't do it, but then again, that's why I create all the content for my own smutty web endeavors -- that way I know that the models involved were treated fairly and paid well.

Tying my will to that potential mistreatment of others, when I know I have alternatives -- not my cuppa.

So who's made even for-their-eye's-only porn with magical intent? I've done a deliberate invocations of my Godself/HGA/Goddess in this way, as well as seeding out my desire for worldly success so that each orgasm inspired by my body carried that intent Out There.

Feels more intimate, but more powerful, when it's my body. Like using your own blood or cum for a spell.
 
 
LVX23
23:57 / 15.03.04
Yeah, I was being a bit too generalistic. Mikey's revelation of his sigil intent just seemed a bit parasitic to me, feeding on human lust and loneliness for money. It's just such a great vehicle (his idea) that I hate to see it debased for such a boring cause.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
04:22 / 16.03.04
Fair enough LVX23 - here's a thought - if PhatMikey's moneymaking sigils work - maybe the concept could be enlarged to do other, more interesting things. I dunno, if A glimpse of Janet Jackson's pierced nipple could cause so much fuss, then maybe a sigil to 'encourage' George Bush to expose himself before congress or something.

Maybe master Morrison could be persuaded to throw in his lot with PhatMikey and they could do a Grant Morrison in the nip/Grant Morrison trannie website ...
 
 
beautifultoxin
05:32 / 16.03.04
Maybe master Morrison could be persuaded to throw in his lot with PhatMikey and they could do a Grant Morrison in the nip/Grant Morrison trannie website ...

aog: Here's some of my handiwork towards the same, from the witchy undie compnay I worked for: GM in his magickal knickers

This was noticed on Barbelith at the time, but may as well milk it -- besides, his, uh, talent is very prominently displayed.

(We meant this as marketing magic, to boot. Got some good traffic. The undies themselves are designed as spells, but that's anothet tale for another thread.)

But seriously -- think of the models, Phat Boy. I'm no anti-porn knee jerker; I make it, I have no leg to stand on there. But bad, boring, corporate porn with no STD tests and safe sex? Don't want that karma, nuh uh.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
07:47 / 16.03.04
beautifultoxin
That's so cool - and I agree with you. Much more magical & inspiring than getting people to wank over sigils. And magical undies - great! I know what all my friends are gonna be getting for Yule this year...
 
 
illmatic
08:30 / 16.03.04
I'm hoping that the sub-conscious minds(?) of all the people wanking at the pictures will pick up on this without them even realising it's there.

I have a lot of problems with the "mechanics" that underlie this. Why should we assume that someone else's subconciousness is even going to notice your sigil? Why should we assume that if "they" were to notice it, while knocking one out, they would then charge it, adn that this would make the magick work? Surely this is all just something you've choosen to believe and hypothesize rather than anything proveable? Which is not to say, I disagree with you - I actually think it's a really cool and funny idea - I just thought it was worth pointing out.
I do agree with BT's concerns about the models though.

I'd be more interested to hear from magicians who have crafted their own pornographic images as sigils themselves -- chaos ritual sex cam shows, photo stills of cum splashing in divinatory patterns, putting your own body on the line as the magical tool.

I agree with you, I would much rather hear about people's creativity and innovation than another thread about bloodly sigils. (I am seriously thinking about starting the "Sigils - Bastard Boring or What?" thread. This is not to pick on anyone whose new to these ideas, I'm sure it's all new and fantastic and exciting, you have me full support in Going For It, but it just gets a bit *snooze* sometimes, y'know? )

BT, your comments reminded me of the works of Gen P. Orridge, in Coum Transmissions and Topy. Weird, atavastic evocative, erotic imagery - you never quite knew what it meant but it suggested something. You might like his new book.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
08:36 / 16.03.04
beautifultoxin
Your post has brought up some other reflections for me - related to this thread but touching wider issues. I was talking with Gypsy & Bengali this w/e about how the very act of discussing magic on a web-board such as Barbelith (interesting though it is at times) very much reinforces the idea of magic as an 'interior', private experience. Okay, you're interacting with others - through the electronic medium of the internet - but its still very much perceived as 'private' (people at work often are surprised when I break this illusion by telling them I've been monitoring their browsing habits). There's a big difference between typing onto a screen and actually going out and interacting with people directly. I'd like to draw a parallel between this and looking at porn on the net. One of the reasons why internet porn has become such a major business (with all the attendant problems, as you've noted) is that porn-surfers can retain this illusion of 'privacy' and don't have to interact with other people directly. I think its interesting how web forums are seemingly becoming a primary source of information about magic for some people, rather than going out and seeking other people or just working stuff out for themselves. I can see a parallel between the way sexuality is 'packaged' on the net and individuals who expect to find the 'secrets' of magic in bite-size chunks on some website.

And I'd propose that a reason that wanking over sigils and wanking over porn fit very well together is that they are, after all, pretty close to each other as an activity. You can do it 'safely' at home without having to risk getting involved with other people.

thoughts?
 
 
Z. deScathach
10:17 / 16.03.04
PhatMikey: Also, I've been a bit worried about dabbling in this stuff, I believe in karma, and have always wondered that if I try to improve my life in some way through a sigil, the universe will, somehow, compensate for that by making life worse for me in another way. Or does that sound stupid?

Better watch out for that one. Beliefs like that can get a certain life to them. And let's be honest, having something bad happen to you every time you try to do something good for yourself makes for a very unhappy life. Personally, I think that your idea is quite novel, but I do share some of the concerns that have been voiced about the porn. While there is nothing wrong with porn per se, in some areas, it can be a highly abusive industry.
 
 
gravitybitch
14:39 / 18.03.04
quickie comment on the subject of karma - LIFE IS NOT A ZERO-SUM GAME.

I definitely believe that it's wrong for someone to cause suffering so that they can benefit from the end result, and am uncomfortable with the idea of getting benefit from ongoing suffering (especially if none of that benefit is turned towards alieviating that suffering).

However, life itself is the process of taking dead/inert matter and making it live... One aspect of civilization is (to vastly oversimplify things) to create Art from cold stones. I think the best measure of personal success is to look at how well a person can deal with all the inevitable crap that happens in a lifetime and learn from it, "make lemonade" as the cliche goes...

I don't think that the Universe keeps score and serves up a balancing ugly for every bit of joy you experience. And it's definitely possible to bring benefits into your life without taking them away from somebody else; in fact, this is something to strive for.

The key is in creating benefits/joy...

How this applies to internet porn, I'm not entirely sure... I just wanted to do my part to dispel the zero-sum game myth.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:33 / 18.03.04
Interesting. I can't speak for life, but I'm sure the Universe itself is a 'zero sum game'...that is, if all the energetic systems and processes at play in the universe are added the net result is exactly...zero.

It sounds like utter bollocks, but I've read it in numerous science-based books, the one springing to mind most easily being "The User Illusion", by a guy with lots of Scandinavian letters in his surname. The book is fairly scholarly and about Information Theory, taking in huge amounts of Godel and Turing along the way.
 
 
macrophage
18:59 / 18.03.04
Guerilla spermomancy and bizarre spermomensemancy the way forward. Dogs use uromancy (divining from the smell of piss) could humans if they experience intense canine atavisms? Reminds me of them old rituals for invoking wolves and suchlike. Howling indeed. I believe Loompanic Books have a book out called "Genitomancy" - a divination system based on people's genitals. Never seen it....
 
 
C.Elseware
19:20 / 18.03.04
iszabelle: "the universe is not a zero sum game" - spot on!

The important thing to remember that wealth is not energy. It's a configuration OF energy. The quality for all can go up and down.

As for wanking on the internet... It does seem funny that the internet suddenly ballooned in speed and everything soon after people started thinking "I wish the internet was faster" while wanking... *grin*
 
 
akira
11:38 / 08.11.07
I found a website a few weeks ago that lets you upload amateur porn videos, so I downloaded a few from other sources and re-encoded them with a sigil in the corner. The sight is pritty well made and lets you know how many people have viewed the vid, so for the vids I uploaded I've have had about 3 million hits so far. I'll post more in the future sometime and let everyone know if this method works, or how well
 
 
godhole
01:08 / 10.11.07
Drat - I just checked XTube and cannot find any videos tagged "sigil." (You may be uploading to another amateur site, of course!) Would it skew the experiment if we were able to give some input by selecting the vids which carry the sigil? Or would that be a different experiment entirely?
 
 
akira
12:13 / 10.11.07
I dont think it matters who views em, I'm not even sure that having this many people look at them will make a difference, it either gets there and works or doesnt right? There is'nt a 'how well'. There on youporn, I uploaded loads of them and only a few have been put up, and I've tryed to tag them so that they show up in the search more oftern.
 
 
Elduderino
10:19 / 12.11.07
Great idea!

I would assume that using other people for sigil charging would have the greatest effect if the S.O.I was one that would affect a large amount of people or atleast the large amount of people involved in charging it.

Easiest way to test would be perhaps trying 2 sigils, one for your personal intent and another that would have a more global impact and then see what works out better.

If you want to take it a step further I would look into using the charging of sigils in that way for energising a servitor of somekind, and what better way to use all that "procreative energy" than in a minion of your own making!
 
 
EvskiG
14:01 / 12.11.07
So tell me Akira -- what's the mechanism here?

From what I understand, you put a symbol expressing a certain desire of yours into pornographic videos so people will see that symbol while they masturbate. The desire at issue isn't self-evident from the symbol and the people who view it have no idea what it is -- if they even notice it.

So? Then what? What's supposed to happen? And why? And why do you think it will work, or might work?

And, given what you think will or might happen, what are the ethics of involving unknowing third parties?
 
 
EvskiG
16:50 / 12.11.07
To get old school for a moment, here's Aleister Crowley on the Magical Link:

What is a Magical Operation? It may be defined as any event in nature which is brought to pass by Will. We must not exclude potato-growing or banking from our definition.

Let us take a very simple example of a Magical Act: that of a man blowing his nose. What are the conditions of the success of the Operation? Firstly, that the man's Will should be to blow his nose; secondly, that he should have a nose capable of being blown; thirdly, that he should have at command an apparatus capable of expressing his spiritual Will in terms of material force, and applying that force to the object which he desires to affect. His Will may be as strong and concentrated as that of Jupiter, and his nose may be totally incapable of resistance; but unless the link is made by the use of his nerves and muscles in accordance with psychological, physiological, and physical law, the nose will remain unblown through all eternity. . . .

The same laws describe and measure the motions of the ant and the stars. Their light is no swifter than that of a spark. In every operation of Magick the link must be properly made. The first requisite is the acquisition of adequate force of the kind required for the purpose. We must have electricity of a certain potential in sufficient amount if we wish to heat food in a furnace. We shall need a more intense current and a greater supply to light a city than to charge a telephone wire. No other kind of force will do. We cannot use the force of steam directly to impel an aeroplane, or to get drunk. We must apply it in adequate strength in an appropriate manner.

It is therefore absurd to invoke the spirit of Venus to procure us the love of an Empress, unless we take measures to transmit the influence of our work to the lady. We may for example consecrate a letter expressing our Will; or, if we know how, we may use some object connected with the person whose acts we are attempting to control, such as a lock of hair or a handkerchief once belonging to her, and so in subtile connection with her aura. But for material ends it is better to have material means. We must not rely on fine gut in trolling for salmon. Our will to kill a tiger is poorly conveyed by a charge of small shot fired at a range of one hundred yards. Our talisman must, therefore, be an object suitable to the nature of our Operation, and we must have some such means of applying its force to such a way as will naturally compel the obedience of the portion of Nature which we are trying to change. If one will the death of a sinner, it is not sufficient to hate him, even if we grant that the vibrations of thought, when sufficiently powerful and pure, may modify the Astral light sufficiently to impress its intention to a certain extent on such people as happen to be sensitive. It is much surer to use one's mind and muscle in service of that hate by devising and making a dagger, and then applying the dagger to the heart of one's enemy. One must give one's hate a bodily form of the same order as that which one's enemy has taken for his manifestation. Your spirit can only come into contact with his by means of this magical manufacture of phantoms; in the same way, one can only measure one's mind (a certain part of it) against another man's by expressing them in some such form as the game of chess. . . .

These general principles should enable the student to understand the nature of the work of making the Magical Link. It is impossible to give detailed instructions, because every case demands separate consideration. It is sometimes exceedingly difficult to devise proper measures.

Remember that Magick includes all acts soever. Anything may serve as a Magical weapon. To impose one's Will on a nation, for instance, one's talisman may be a newspaper, one's triangle a church, or one's circle a Club. To win a woman, one's pantacle may be a necklace; to discover a treasure, one's wand may be a dramatist's pen, or one's incantation a popular song.

Many ends, many means: it is only important to remember the essence of the operation, which is to will its success with sufficiently pure intensity, and to incarnate that will in a body suitable to express it, a body such that its impact on the bodily expression of the idea one wills to change is to cause it to do so.

For instance, one may wish to obtain the knowledge put forth in this book. Not knowing that such a book exists, one might yet induce some one who knows of it to offer a copy. Thus one's operation would consist in inflaming one's Will to possess the knowledge to the point of devoting one's life to it, in expressing that will by seeking out people who seem likely to know what is needed, and in imposing it on them by exhibiting such enthusiastic earnestness that they will tell the enquirer that this book will meet his needs.

Does this sound too simple? Can this obvious common-sense course be really that marvellous Magick that frightens folk so? Yes, even this triviality is one instance of how Magick works. . . .

[Where there is an] absence of any existing link between the Will of the Magician and that controlling the object to be affected . . . even allowing that Will is sufficient to determine the direction, and prevent the dispersion of the force, we can hardly be sure that it will act on its object, unless that object be properly prepared to receive it. The Link must be perfectly made. The object must possess in itself a sufficiency of stuff sympathetic to our work. We cannot make love to a brick, or set an oak to run errands. . . .

[Some] previous writers on Magick [have assumed] that the Link is implicit, and needs no special attention. Yet, in practice, there is nothing more certain than that one ought to confirm one's will by all possible acts on all possible planes. The ceremony must not be confined to the formally magical rites. We must neglect no means to our end, neither despising our common sense, nor doubting our secret wisdom.

When Frater I. A. was in danger of death in 1899 e.v. Frater V. N. and FRATER PERDURABO did indeed invoke the spirit Buer to visible manifestation that he might heal their brother; but also one of them furnished the money to send him to a climate less cruel than England's. He is alive to day; who cares whether spirits or shekels wrought that which these Magicians willed?

Let the Magical Link be made strong! It is "love under will"; it affirms the identity of the Equation of the work; it makes success Necessity.
 
  

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