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Underground > Comic Books >

Doom Patrol

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Dan Fish - @Fish1k

20:21 / 11.03.04

I wonder what effect the launch of John Byrnes Doom Patrol series will have on the possible future release of GMs run in TPB form?

Apparently, the new series is a complete relaunch (the other series 'never existed in continuity', or so I have heard), so it doesn't bode well at all.

I have all the issues anyway, but I know lots of people were hoping to get a TPB release.

20:49 / 11.03.04

Hard call. Will DC want to take advantage of the buzz around Byrne's series to get the previous critically-acclaimed series into print, or will they be afraid of diluting interest in the present series by doing so? The weird continuity-scrubbing angle may complicate things.

OTOH, I did hear it rumored (here? don't remember) that getting the DP stuff collected was part of Morrison's exclusive deal with DC. Anyone know any background on that potentially dubious bit of info?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

21:03 / 11.03.04

Fuck it, as far as I'm concerned John Bryne never existed in continuity. CRISIS ON FINITE IMAGINATIONS #3 establised he was just a really bad joke started by Jim Shooter! That fucking Harold Shipman lookalike we've been seeing for the past few years was just a tramp they pulled in off the street. Obviously there are certain continuity problems posed by this radical approach, but why let that stand in the way of a greatly improved objective reality? You've been retconned, fuckface. You never existed!

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

21:13 / 11.03.04

Nah, fuck it, this is great news, because it more or less makes the heartbreakingly craptacular Pollack run redundant to the point it shrivels up and drops off, morned by nobody.

It ended on the bridge in the rain, just like we all knew it did. Cliff and Jane step on to Danny the World and live happily ever after. No bullshit with fucking spirit pigs and shacks in the woods and the chief comming back as a fucking head that Cliff agrees not to smash into a fucking pulp for destroying so many lives. Taking Grant's run out of the shit pit of the DC timeline means nobody can spoil it for me anymore.

There is a better continuity.

Well, there has to be.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

21:14 / 11.03.04

I just can't seem to make up my mind tonight, sorry chaps.

21:47 / 11.03.04

I think I'll let Raymond Chandler (via Alan Moore) answer this one:

When someone asked him what he thought of Hollywood ruining his books, he took them into his study, pointed to a shelf, and said, "Look, they're there. They're fine. They're okay."

As far as I'm concerned, nothing John Byrne has written is necessarily "in continuity". Whether DC (or, for that matter, Marvel) agrees with me is not my problem

--

01:12 / 12.03.04

Frankly, I still don't see why DC felt the need to continue the "Animal Man" and "Doom Patrol" series' after GM left them. Talk about a hard act to follow if ever there was one. If I was a writer I'd probably refuse, only because some things should end.

foot long subbacultcha

07:51 / 12.03.04

WTF? They're relaunching Doom Patrol AGAIN? But they just did that - I really enjoyed the short-lived series they cancelled last year.

09:32 / 12.03.04

Well it's DC's X-Men I guess. Or so they seem to keep hoping. There's a certain warped logic at work there I suppose.

Byrne - " All right Morrison, you fucked my guys, so now I'm going to fuck yours. In fact ( dribbles insanely into his beard ) I'LL PRETEND YOUR WORK NEVER EVEN EXISTED ! HA ! WHO THE MAN MOTHERFUCKER ! WHO THE... etc, etc

11:21 / 12.03.04

Well John Byrnes opinion of GMs Doom Patrol is obvious.

"So, DOOM PATROL. That sounds pretty straightforward to me. Doesn't sound like a book I would pick up expecting weird existential gobble-de-gook. Sounds like straighforward superheroing."
John Byrne Forum

12:20 / 12.03.04

The John Byrne forum

God, that was horrible. I mean for fuck's sake -

Greg - " Have we told you how cool you are today ? "

Byrne - " Ayyyyy... "

And then underneath that... UBDERNEATH THAT, there's a picture of... THE FONZ. Brain exploding with the sheer utter dreadfulness of it all.

Up until today, I hadn't given John Byrne a second thought for something like sixteen years, but Jesus Christ... he's some piece of work, isn't he ?

" Sounds like straightforward superheroing to me. " indeed. Can anyone guess what I won't be doing when the new improved DP hits the stands in May ?

13:31 / 12.03.04

Look, it's Doom Patrol.

Even in the unlikely even that book doesn't get cancelled after 6 issues, it will always, always, always be compared to Grant's run.

Unfavourably.

13:47 / 12.03.04

Personally, I'm with Radiator. Isolate Grant's Doom Patrol as perfectly as you can. It's an alternate world.

That said, I have no problem with someone else trying to revive the original Doom Patrol. That comic has wacky and cool enough to deserve a million revivals. I kind of doubt Byrne has it in him to do a great one, but I'll give it a chance.

13:49 / 12.03.04

What annoys me is that all they had to do was have this latest incarnation of the Doom Patrol appear from another time/dimension/universe etc and it wouldn't create a continuity nightmare and would till be a reboot of the characters. That has been my idea since the last series got cancelled and I would've done it to in that fantasy world where I'm a reknown comicbook writer.

14:34 / 12.03.04

Even in the unlikely even that book doesn't get cancelled after 6 issues, it will always, always, always be compared to Grant's run.

Unfavourably.

cancelled after 6 issues? but some guy on the Byrne forum said it was going to be as big as Hush if not bigger! clearly, you don't know that you're dealing with JOHN BYRNE, DEFENDER OF ALL THAT IS GOOD IN COMICS.

you must be part of the conspiracy. you know, the people who ruined wholesome, fun superhero comics for kids. the people who murdered Barry Allen and stripped Hal Jordan of the mantle of the Green Lantern. you're going to get together with those damn comic store owners to come up with new ways to stand between Byrne and a public that is hungry for him and all he represents, aren't you?

from here, i can't tell if you twirl your moustache with villainous glee or stroke your goatee with your elitist coffeeshop pseudointellectuals, but you definitely do something bad that's related to facial hair.

14:35 / 12.03.04

Doesn't matter really, it's not something Grant owns and with that in mind they can do whatever the hell they want with it and it doesn't bother me.

And Animal Man was really over after Grant left.

Still, Grant did flush after he left (the Deus Ex Machina) since he's a nice well mannered boy and I read a few Delano issues which were excellent.

11:08 / 13.03.04

you definitely do something bad that's related to facial hair.

It's the second one.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

14:42 / 13.03.04

I would say that the over/under on Byrne's Doom Patrol is 12 issues.

All bets being taken now!

17:44 / 13.03.04

I give it to #10. Though I predict Byrne will bail around #7 or #8 to do something else, bitching that he didn't get fan support. Someone younger and more enthusiastic will inherit the mess, try and do something interesting with it, and get cancelled before he turns in his first script. Anyway, although this Doom Patrol is "eh" to me, and nothing Byrne says makes it seem any more appealing, I don't see how anyone could really follow what Morrison did with DP in the same vein (previous attempts have failed), so in theory re-mainstreaming the book sounds okay to me; this version seems a little typical and prosaic to really excite new readers, though.

You gotta love the superfans drooling and flipping out over a sketch that looks like Byrne's either losing his eyesight or motor control. And you *really* gotta love Byrne, in the same message, trashing Karl Kesel and telling an excited fan not to inadvertantly insult "professionals" (when only the thinnest-skinned and most paranoid person could possibly have read what was actually written as an insult). It's amazing to me that John Byrne just assails everyone, including his supporters, and in the same breath makes a plea for the respect of his personal sensitivity. In this, I think we can find the quintessence of what RAW calls "cosmic schmuck" behavior. Byrne is right to bemoan the 'net's effect on the comics industry...though his current work sucks, Byrne was a hero to my way younger (pre-adolescent)self for his Uncanny and Alpha Flight, and without the internet around to provide a medium for his rantings, I might have nothing but fond memories and sympathy.

18:19 / 13.03.04

"John Byrne just likes to hear John Byrne talk about John Byrne. John Byrne!"

19:11 / 13.03.04

Doesn't sound like a book I would pick up expecting weird existential gobble-de-gook.

well, no one expected the Spanish Inquisition, either, but that doesn't mean I didn't get a kick out of it. My overriding image of Byrne comes from a Claremont/Davis Excalibur, where J.B's the head indexer of all characters; he freaks out in a frothing rage, attacking Kitty Pryde, screaming "Everything's always changing! STOP CHANGING!". Sums it up pretty well, I think. (Loved his Superman when I was 13, though)

20:46 / 13.03.04

If I bought any current Marvel or DC books, this would be one that I would actually be looking forward to trying out. Byrne has a lot of love for these characters, and the few times he's tried his hand at them have been some of his best work.

That said, I wish he wasn't bringing Rita Farr back, even if she is one of my favourite female superheroes.

22:13 / 14.03.04

John Byrne on Grant Morrison

01:11 / 15.03.04

I hope that Morrison doesn't have an "eviceral" connection to his work. I'm not sure what that could mean, but it sounds kinda gross.

11:16 / 15.03.04

Sometimes, I get the feeling that John Byrne lies awake at night cursing the fact that he hasn't been crowned the heir to Jack Kirby. Certainly, he's tried his best to claim the role (despite lacking Jack's creativity, breadth of vision, or sheer class).

15:32 / 15.03.04

What a clueless old twat.

Haus of Mystery

15:57 / 15.03.04

That's right Johnny, Grant and Al have no love for the comics thay write, not like you in the late 80's when you wrote and drew every comic you could get your hands on in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. That's real class.
Oh yeah. are you and Chuck dixon and Peter David the same Hawaaian shirt wearing, fat, bearded twat-being?

20:07 / 15.03.04

I dunno. I haven't felt like Grant Morrison's cared about his characters since the Invisibles. And even then he didn't care about them the way he cared about the characters in Doom Patrol.

Haus of Mystery

20:28 / 15.03.04

Mebbe YOU cared more about the characters back then? I reckon there was enough love for the JLA and the X-Men, and Greg was pretty sympathetic in La Filth (for a paedophile). I think Grant's smart arse 'hyper-talk' is a bit past it's sell by date, but he can still make me care about his characters. And the fact is a nostalgia peddler like Byrne who has trouble making his characters ONE-dimensional really needs to think about what he's saying when accusing Moore and Mozzer of coldness.

20:37 / 15.03.04

(Spal)

"Cold"? Jeez, sometimes Grant's overabundance of sentiment verges on the mawkish! Those fucking cats, for fuck's sake......

I don't know what that old idiot's talking about.

And, anyway, JLA was good precisely because it WASN'T just a fucking nostalgia comic.

23:00 / 15.03.04

Hey, I just wanna speak up in defense of the old-as-dirt here. First of all, the man isn't all THAT old...what is he, like 50-something? Byrne isn't an asshole because he's old. Byrne is an asshole because he's just an asshole. I'm willing to bet he was as big an asshole at 25. He just, you know, drew a lot better then.

23:33 / 15.03.04

Oh definitely. After all, folks like Walt Simonson are (I believe) _older_ than the Living Ego, but still manage to be classy.

Haus of Mystery

11:23 / 16.03.04

Or Will Eisner. or Joe Kubert. And so on. I'm not knocking Byrne for being a fusty but his tone IS that of a grumpy old codger moaning about 'revisionist' comic writing and dragging characters back to their original forms of 40 bloody years ago. At least Morrissey and Moore are trying to grow old disgracefully. Fuck Johnny-boy and his old school reactionary bullshit.

Dan Fish - @Fish1k

12:29 / 16.03.04

I've posted there a couple of times now (see my last post get shot down near the beginning of Doom Patrol Thread #4!!), but to be honest, the pain isn't worth the effort anymore.

I've begun to hear JB voice as Garth Merenghi's, which is probably a bad sign.

Haus of Mystery

12:42 / 16.03.04

Let's stage a coup. Let's go over there and cry Havoc and release the Dogs of Righteous Indignation. We'll teach Uncle Johnny not to badmouth surrealism!

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