Barbelith Underground > Policy & Help > Racism?

Racism isn't about hatred it's about discrimination. It's about making a choice or a decision on the basis of race where race should make no qualitative difference. It's saying given two people of equal qualification, we'll choose the white one every time, or the black one every time or the gay one every time or the Christian every time.

With regard to racial observations not being racist, well frankly that's a more complex area than I think you give it credit for. Because the whole point of racism is that it's not about judging individuals on the merits they individually might have (athletic, intelligent or whatever) but on the generalised qualities you think everyone of that type has.

Genetically there is more variation within any racial group than there is variation between them. It's almost impossible to make statements with any degree of accuracy about the character or personality or behaviour or attributes of an individual on the basis of their ethnicity alone. Frankly, then, using racial observations in the judgement of individuals is not only racist, it's also clumsy and stupid. Particularly when you actually get right down into it and start asking whether white Englishmen have much in common with white Americans or whether white working class people have all that much in common with the royal family. Or whether asian americans have the same value systems as the agrarian Chinese. There's just no similarity between the life experiences of those people, no way of predicting on the basis of their ethnicity how they will behave.

What you could probably say is that black, asian, indian and white americans in California have a certain amount in common with other people of their races based upon their shared experience of growing up as part of an ethnicity in a place like California. You could probably also argue that all the groups share experience and values based upon being American and more specifically Californian. And you could probably have some interesting guesses about their character and behaviour if you knew which ones voted democrat and which ones voted republican. Their age would probably have an impact on their behaviour as well, and whether they were first/second/tenth generation Americans. Probably their weight might colour their behaviour. Their biochemistry. Their health. Whether they're on anti-depressants or not. Whether their boyfriend or girlfriend dumped them that morning. Whether they're gay or straight. Whether they have children or don't have children. How well educated they were. How much available money they have. Whether they're atheists or Christians or Muslims Etc. etc. etc.

With such an incredibly dense set of pieces of information that colour our character and behaviour and place in the world, to judge an individual on the basis of ethnicity alone seems ludicrous in the extreme. The more you know about an individual, the more able you might be to guess how they might react in certain circumstances, or to take issue your understanding of the type of person they are or even with the culture that you feel they represent. But even then, you'd probably be better served by just having a conversation with them.

With regard to passer, there's actually a pretty clear distinction between saying 'shall i go out with a black girl' (which basically says you'd write anyone off on the basis of their ethnicity alone, no matter how attractive or interesting they were) and saying 'should i go out with samantha' (which is basically a question about a very specific individual that one would hope you'd know in some detail). If you can't see the distinction there, then that's a problem. With regard to the gay thread thing - I'm gay and I don't really care about his post on the gay marriage thread. It's facile and it's stupid and I wish the world wasn't full of pillocks like him, but hey, it's not the end of the world. This is not the end of the world either, but it's still bloody rude and it IS racist.

To raelianautopsy - yeah there are loads of circumstances where making transgressive jokes is entertaining and useful and there are also contexts where it is not. If you're going to make a joke like that you really do have to choose your audience carefully, make sure they understand it's a joke and be prepared if something goes wrong. Politically incorrect humour is funny because it's a risk. When it goes wrong you realistically only have yourself to blame!

Racism? - now-locked legacy thread