BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Temple >

Wounded healers, shamans, blind seers, cousellors, psychotherapists, healers.

  
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:03 / 06.03.04
Been mulling this one over for a while, and i seem to have started it accidentally on the 'curriculum' thread so here goes...

Basically I started talking about how I see counselling/pyschotherapy:

***************************

When it works*, it's about providing a safe, enabling space to work things through, or a place to walk a path with someone beside you. Not leading, but accompanying. Not neccessarily a 'reality check' but a space that can be used for grounding. As well as for flying off emotionally and physically, into difficult spaces, knowing that someone's anchoring you.

And was also talking to Gypsy a while ago about how many similarities there are between shamanic traditions and the training process for counsellors/therapists, particularly humanistic workers.

Ie that in any good humanistic professional training, it is compulsory to undergo counselling. This for a number of reasons: you don't accompany someone to a place you wouldn't go yourself. It's bad, incongruent practice, and won't encourage your client to trust you. Why should they?

It's also considered beneficial as this kind of training is a hugely personally challenging process, and it will raise your demons, whatever they are. So, on top of supervision by an experienced counsellor when you start practising, you should have an outlet for the stuff that will be raised.

And having been through a foundation course, your stuff *will* be raised. It's wonderful work, but can also be gruelling and shake your belief in everything. It's meant to. And there's no way you can understand it until you're doing it.

There's a common counsellors' joke that counselling courses should come with a health warning. People frequently change utterly. It's bloody common for it to precipate relationship breakdowns as one partner walks the path, leaving the other behind.

The training's all about embarking on a process, and at times allowing it to happen to you, developing a sense of when to direct and when to relinquish control.

It's not about being some perfect enlightened being, diagnosing and curing others, it's about being someone who's prepared to battle their own stuff. And often counsellors, like alot of the magically-inclined I've met, have alot of stuff to battle.

My experience of counselling training, and counselling has been that it's not about banishing pain, fear, anger etc but about creating a space where these things can begin to play out safely, so I begin understand how I work in whatever world I'm in, and can get agency, control, and, as I say, learn when to let go.

So, as I've said, you don't presume accompany someone on
that kind of path unless you've
walked/will walk it yourself...

Anyway, a few thoughts, hope they're of interest.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:24 / 06.03.04
oh, and look what I just found:

GL:

"The Religion is living and experiential. There are no authoritative step-by-step guides to Vodon, in the same way that there are no authoritative step-by-step guides to human relationships. "

  
 
illmatic
12:54 / 06.03.04
Very interesting BiP. Will come back to this on Monday - right now and try to drag myseelf off the net. Just to say I found a lot of similarities between humanisitic counselling and Thelema - in that it involves recognising another's sovereignity. "Every man and every women is a star" and all that. That possibly reflects my reading materials at the time I was doing it as much as anything else, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
 
 
illmatic
07:41 / 08.03.04
*bumping dis one*

More to write later...
 
 
Mr Messy
00:49 / 09.03.04
Ooh, I liked what you wrote BiP. Its heartening to hear about other therapists getting decent training. I worry sometimes about courses where students are expected to race through and complete all of their training hours in the alloted time with nary a thought as to whether they are growing themselves.
Still, thoughts...

I'm mid year long break from counselling work. Its doing me some good I can say. Found myself doing work with the soil - gardening, planting, weeding, etc. Reconnecting with nature and perhaps charging my emotional and spiritual batteries up again.

I'm also interested to note that decided to do a course in Reiki last month. Its merely an introduction, I'm not set up to start a Reiki practice, just able to try out healing on myself and friends. Reiki is interesting, although I'm not sure I've got all of my skepticism out of my system yet. The idea is that the practitioner acts as a channel for this universal life energy which has a sort of spiritual consciousness itself. It will direct itself to where it is needed. In this way it is similar to humanistic counselling where the counsellor hirself is not the expert, merely the facilitator of this process.

But I'm really interested in why, during my break, I decided to explore more therapeutic work? Its as if I can't keep away from it.

Many people have said to me that I have a tendancy towards healing - but I get worried that I'm following a dodgy impulse. What inner need am I attempting to satisfy by being a healer.

What drew you into this field? Are there other forms of healing you've dallied with? Has my training caused me to question my own motives too much?
 
 
trouser the trouserian
11:51 / 09.03.04
BiP
And was also talking to Gypsy a while ago about how many similarities there are between shamanic traditions and the training process for counsellors/therapists, particularly humanistic workers.

Check out Sudhir Karar's book Shamans, Mystics & Doctors - info here

It's a fascinating look at the similarities between psychoanalysis and a range of "traditional" Indian healing practices such as Ayurvedic, village healers, tantrics.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:08 / 09.03.04
One thing that comes to mind is the therapy aspect of ancestor work, mainstay of virtually all shamanic systems of magic yet conspicuously absent from western magical practice. Essentially you construct a small altar setup dedicated to your ancestors, visualised as stretching back through time like a vast Vonnegutian/Morrison timeworm construct.

You then make regular offerings to the ancestors at this altar, glass of water, bread and fruit, light a white candle, etc, and talk to them about the various things going on in your life, such as family matters, relationships, personal and emotional problems, fears, concerns, etc... In terms of sorcery, the ancestors can be very effective at getting things done within the various spheres of activity that they would be likely to take an interest in. It's like having an extended family of ghosts with a vested interest in your life and progress.

Apart from the obvious therapeutic benefits of having this regular session where you talk over the various issues that are on your mind with a group of concerned family spirits, ancestor work seems to perform a kind of healing function. You gradually come to think of yourself as the current end product of this ongoing process stretching back over countless generations that you are still intimitely connected to and a part of.

The more you feed, acknowledge and communicate with your ancestors, the stronger this bond grows, and the more profound this feeling of ancestral connection becomes. I think that this can go a long way towards resolving those feelings of chronic alienation that often characterise bouts of depression - the sense of being small, seperate and alone in the world - as you slowly grow to think of yourself as a part of a much larger organism that exists throughout time and can provide a very real sense of support in difficult times.

A lot more to follow when I get the chance.
 
 
illmatic
08:58 / 10.03.04
Great post, Gypsy. I'd add that this kind of practises feels very natural. I'd draw an analogy with gardening - people still maintain gardens in the civilised suburbias of the West. Why? Because it feels good to plant, to dig and to grow. This kind of work seems to be about that same sense of reconnection, I think it feels so natural because it's something that's common to every tribal culture in the world. It's part of our collective heritage, I suppose. Hm. Just wrote that. paged back up to Mr Messy's post above. May well be working on our fear of death here as well.

As an extension of this, one might think of any practice that opens you up to something bigger as part of a healing process ie. from the 12 Step programme in Alcholics Anonymous to tht invocation of the Holy| Guardian Angel. The common point of connection here seems to be, ie. it's not just me, I'm not alone.

With regards to you comments about working alognside someone, I can't help but think of the role of the Guru in Eastern religons. There's a lot of literature which deservedly critques the abusive forms these relationship sometimes take, so I think you've got to reformulate a lof of our basic ideas here. I don't see this idea as an authority figure to rebel against or kowtow to, but rather as having peers to share with. Sometimes this might take the form of practical instruction, sometimes not. Much as I love books and fine an institution as the Barbeltih Magick Forum is, there's no substitue for face to face contact with others. We learn best in the company of others IMHO, especially if they've walked the road ahead of you a little, and have faced some of the difficulties of the path. Just sharing with someone who's got a bit of compassion toward you can be a great thing. I'd add that this process in occult practice is different from the intentional and directed process that you're going to undergo as a counselling, where process like transferance etc. are foregrounded, though there are definite similaritities.

It's not about being some perfect enlightened being, diagnosing and curing others, it's about being someone who's prepared to battle their own stuff.

I thought that's a very acute comment. Particular relevant within magickal relationships, which I think are poentially a lot less grounded than counselling ones, with a bit of tendency to project all kinds of fantasy aspirations onto the people you meet. Keep your wits about, kids. just 'cos someone's a fourth degree OTO and knows Aleister Crowley's biography backwards, doesn't mean they're not a complete plonker...



... in some circles in fact, these things might be taken as signs that they are a complete plonker...

*slaps shut wicked bitchy mouth*
 
 
illmatic
09:29 / 10.03.04
Oh, and to go back to the topic title: the notion of the "Wounded healer" - what do people think this might mean? Any experience theories etc. It's an interesting topic, don't think it's been discussed round here before.
 
 
illmatic
10:18 / 10.03.04
To go back to my last post, guru lineages (sampradaya) can be seen of as spritual ancestors and can be worshipped in their own right. I'm certain that these two practices have a shared origin with family lines and guru lines often being synonmous.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
10:34 / 10.03.04
I'm certain that these two practices have a shared origin with family lines and guru lines often being synonmous.

I concurr, Illmatic. Note usage of the Sanskrit kula which can be translated as group, but also as "clan". Tantric lineages mirrored the extended family structure found elsewhere in tradn Hindu society - hence the common identification of the guru with the 'clan father', the guru's partner as 'clan mother' etc.
 
 
C.Elseware
13:02 / 10.03.04
In my work with students at the university, I have found that my weaknesses are as valuable as my strengths.

I mean, that drawing on my own past problems, stupidity, fuck-ups and so forth is far more effective when helping someone than to just tell them that I'm smart and they should listen to what I say.

I usually take the approach of sitting a student down and telling them how I screwed up bits of the course, why, and how I would approach it if I could do it over.

The people who found the degree easiest are often the poorest teachers as they don't understand the steps that other people are going through because they ran down that path so fast that they don't remember the way well enough to help others.

OK teaching and healing aren't the same thing, but there's hellva common ground between them.
 
 
angel
17:30 / 10.03.04
Bugger, Bip I have come to the thread, and think it rocks, and there's lots of really good stuff to talk about here, but I'm exhausted and just a little pissed and so this is beyond me right now.

But I just wanted to let you know that I have been here and will be back. And now, for sleep!
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
17:31 / 10.03.04
(Want to make clear here that i'm not a qualified counsellor. Yet. I'm someone who's done foundation-level training and does voluntary work in counselling-type environments. And will be continuing. So this is probably partly personally rooted in my own process of looking into the next stage of my personal/professional journey)


... in some circles in fact, these things might be taken as signs that they are a complete plonker...

Well, seeing as this is a healing/journey thread, I will own this one as well, I am trying to work on it, honest!

Ill: interesting point about gurus. Aog and i have been talking about this in terms of context. I found myself in India in an environment that smacked of a guru set-up to me. And i know that 'smacked' is a huge flag of my discomfort/difficulty with it.

Buuut, in a massive oversimplification, South Asian cultures are syncretic/collectivist, whereas Western ones are fiercely individualist. At which point, a Guru may mean entirely things depending on which of these cultures surrunds ze and hir devotees.

Anyway, great answers all. The ancestor worship GL's talking about fascinates me, both from the POV of someone who's recently reconnected materially with their extended family, and begun to appreciate both this and my historical family context(which is also i guess why i'm interested in the culture-clash stuff, as i'm SA (in origin)) , and as a counsellor-type.

From a counselling perspective, as a client and student, I've done work explictly focussed on talking to people who we might not otherwise be able to talk to. People who have died, for example. Or people we don't feel able to confront, but wish to.

The 'empty chair' for example, invovles setting up a chair, in which the person you can't address is 'imagined' (my scare quotes) to be sitting. And then saying all the things you felt/feel unable to say usually. It can have very powerful results. Similarly, it may be suggested that a client write a letter to this person.

My scare quotes as for many counsellors this is an exercise in resolution, and the chair is considered to be empty, and serving as a focus for emotions/thoughts that have been repressed. But for others, it's less important whether this is true or not, and more important that the client gets to talk to the person.

The impetus, of coming-to-terms with, of communicating with someone for conext/resolution/help, is strikingly similar.

As another example, it was suggested to me write a letter to the person, as I'd gotten to a point in my therapy where i had things i needed to say/anger i needed to express. My counsellor also suggested I might want to ritualise the process, go somewhere connected to them, and perhaps if i wished destroy the letter, do so in an appropriate/ritualised way.

This is something i did and continue to do, and find incredibly useful.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
17:58 / 10.03.04
Elsewhere: yeah, think good teaching is very close/connected to this stuff.

Mr.Messy: loved yr post. (Am I allowed to love the fact that a counsellor calls hirself Mr.Messy? )

On the questioning stuff, suspect you may be alot more experienced than me but yeah, i'd say it was occupational hazard! And I'm not just being flip.

During my foundation course, the most common complaint was 'and now i've got this internal voice/questioning process, and i can't switch it off'. I believe it's an integral part of the process, and is a one-way street God, sometimes i wish it wasn't!

Feels personally like I've opened a door onto things, which is usually exactly what i want. But sometimes it gets way too much, but I can't slam it shut again. And so, having changed something fundamental, I have to (and want to) work with the new 'me'...

And I'm interested that you've found gardening/working with the soil whilst taking time out. It sounds really healing

(for non-couns. types reading, this is really common, pretty much standard AFAIK. It's considered neccessary and useful to step away from time to time. And sometimes is vital on personal sanity grounds. It can be heavy going. This is not to make any assumptions about Messy's reasons, just a few of my own/others i've known)

But I'm really interested in why, during my break, I decided to explore more therapeutic work? Its as if I can't keep away from it.

Ha. That's fascinating. And something I can really relate to. Since my first training i've been doing voluntary work in this area(about 3 years now), and while I have taken breaks at points where I've needed them, I've often found myself looking at other healing things(see also, popping up in the Magick forum and talking about it. not this time, but i'm pretty sure iv'e done it before.) during these breaks.

And you probably know what I'm going to say on the other stuff! Namely, that only you can know/find out whether your impulse to heal is healthy for you. But I'd say, in my exprience, that no gift comes without a downside, and this is part of the parcel.

(and i would have pm'd this, but thought it might be useful for other people to see this stuff. Messy, if you want to talk more about couns. stuff via PM i'd be well up for that.)

The questioning though, is the bastard son of the process, IMO.

I've found the learning/experiencing of counselling study has been incredibly beneficial/healing to me personally. To me its a circular process.

In this way it is similar to humanistic counselling where the counsellor hirself is not the expert, merely the facilitator of this process.]

Yes, spot on. And i think is a major part of what draws people into these areas.

Me? Several I did, at the nagging of a partner a short 'listening skills' course (having done lots of student welfare/nightline work at both uni's and then forgotten about it in the 'get a job, get a career' stress) and was hooked. Having tried lots of different careers with varying success, I've found my vocation.

It's love. Basically. And feels like it takes me over/one of the most important relationships in my life.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
18:00 / 10.03.04
sorry for the vast posts btw. I've been sitting on this one a while
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:17 / 11.03.04
That bit about opening doors to stuff then finding that you can't close them again. It's all very H.P Lovecraft really isn't it. The archetype of the magician dabbling in dark waters that shouldn't be disturbed and stirring up all sorts of demons beyond their control, then having to find some way of dealing with the ramifications of that. You find this general pattern cropping up again and again in fairytales and folklore, and I often think that those sources can provide deeper insights into the general structure of magical/shamanic 'events' than the complete works of Crowley and Spare combined.

There's a hoodoo operation called an uncrossing that acts vaguely like a souped up banishing ritual. The process is designed to rid you of 'crossed conditions' - which can mean anything from an actual curse to compulsive destructive behaviour patterns. It's very effective stuff, but comes with the warning that things have a tendency to get worse before they get better. Like a psychic detox, all of the crap has to be flushed out of your system one way or another. An uncrossing opens up Pandora's box into your life, which can sometimes be quite brutal depending on what you might have locked up there. But in order for the necessary healing process to occur these things have to be brought out into the open and somehow resolved, which can mean facing harsh and difficult stuff you've been avoiding.

The uncrossing sketch comes from a tradition of folk magic developed in the Southern states of America, and is a mix of African, Native American, and European methods of practical sorcery. It takes it's place alongside methods of fixing a cheating husband and winning on the horses, so not something you might immediately look to for parallels with therapy/counselling - but they are quite clearly present.
 
 
macrophage
12:33 / 11.03.04
This uncrossing stuff sounds well interesting, I would agree that in entering the zones of self-healing that you may have to come across alot of crap in order to exorcise it, to strive for clear goals. I would like to re-address my character armour, short-fused temper, paranoias, obsessions, etc... While none us are perfect I think we all have to overcome our horrors and shit. Onward and upwards. In one hand I would like to get into this counselling biz as I see it as good to pull people out of the depths but then under self analysis and thinking that if my life was filmed I must look a right twat! (that's NLP visualisation, not some mad paracat fantasy, y'hear!)
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:55 / 11.03.04
A thought that springs to mind - uniting both BiP's comments on counselling & Gypsy's points about ancestors is both these processes are concerned with relationships rather than being primarily a 'interior/personal' process - which is very much the way modern western magic tends to be framed. Many aspects of contemporary magic can be seen as reflecting the emphasis placed in western culture becoming an individual, distinct from others.
Goffman describes the tension between individual and the social:
Without something to belong to, we have no stable self, and yet total commitment and attachment to any social unit implies a kind of selflessness. Our sense of being a person can come from being drawn into a wider social unit; our sense of selfhood can arise through the little ways in which we resist the pull. Our status is backed by the solid buildings of the world, while our sense of personal identity often resides in the cracks .

Sure, you can do 'magic' in the comfort of your own room, surrounded by books and a broadband internet connection. But counselling - and, indeed, most forms of 'healing' require you to engage with other people in a mutual revealing of 'self' (I think Carl Rogers is good on this score) to varying degrees.

On ancestor work - when I was doing a behavioural science degree, I did a study into strategies for coping with grief within a local mining community. Interestingly enough, many people who took part said that they often visited the graves of loved ones/relatives in order to discuss problems, and found this more 'valuable' than talking to doctors, social workers, or the parish priest.
 
 
---
14:40 / 11.03.04
There's a hoodoo operation called an uncrossing that acts vaguely like a souped up banishing ritual.

Is there anywhere that i can read about this on the net? I searched for a couple of minutes but the results where full of people trying to sell 'uncrossing kits' and no guides or texts.

I'd like to try a chaos type uncrossing so i'd be interested in reading up on it and then making something up myself.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
16:10 / 11.03.04
I'd like to try a chaos type uncrossing so i'd be interested in reading up on it and then making something up myself.

(threadrot) Chaos bollocks. An uncrossing is just an uncrossing, whether you want to tart it up in cool post modern chaos lingo is pretty meaningless. Like making a monkey wear earrings. Most hoodoo is pretty straightforward and instinctive, but involves real personal investment and effort to properly get the hang of. Hoodoo and conjure sorcery involves a lot of personal riffing on established forms anyway. You get an idea of the essential mechanisms at work, learn the language of herbs and materials, and then adapt something from them.

High John the Conqueror Root, Five Finger Grass, Lodestones, Van Van Oil and Florida Water, etc.. become the paint and canvas you use to put together real creative sorcery. I don't want to give you a recipe for uncrossing though, as that would be depriving you of the process of researching this stuff and exploring the mad world of reversible double jinx candles and banishing aerosols. However Cat Yronwode's lucky mojo curio company website is a good first port of call.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:50 / 11.03.04
gotta run, and have been spending far too much time here, but a couple of links and quotes:

In Greek mythology Chiron became a leader and wise elder amongst the centaurs, half man, half horse. Although renowned for his skills and art as a healer and physician, which made him the patron saint of these vocations, he was unable to treat an incurable wound in his own knee which he had suffered through an arrow. He was, therefore, known as the 'wounded healer'.

another quote/link

Many a doctor has witnessed how his understanding and skills are enhanced if he himself experiences an illness. He may however have a deeply unrecognised inner wound. This wounded side is then projected onto the patient so that feelings of weakness, dependency and helplessness are avoided by the doctor.

Projection is that process by which we first repress and then cast out those aspects of ourselves which we do not like or accept. It is this splitting or inborn potential of the wounded healer that helps to produce the one sided power relationships between doctors and patients. All the wounds are lodged in the patient, and all the healing attributed to the doctor

Chiron is a powerful icon/metaphor for humanistic counselilng and Jungian analysis, pops up over and over.

On aogs point about reltaionships, which i think is an acute one:

JoHari Window
 
 
---
17:13 / 11.03.04
Thanks Gypsy Lantern. I said chaos because i didn't want to go through all of the herb, stone, candle etc collecting and wanted the basic elements of how the spell works, but if i have to take that route then i'll look up the link you gave me.

Honestly i'm not doing chaos because it's supposed to be cool or any of that crap, i'm simply doing it because it removes the need for so many tools,herbs,oils,stones etc and then i can choose my own substitute and do it in my own way.

Like making a monkey wear earrings.

Honestly i want to do the opposite to this. I want to uncross with a simple spell, astral protection and if need be tarot cards and a few stones of my own choosing. I've gone out into fields near my house and have about fifty or so that i found and have used them for the last couple of years whenever i've thought they were needed. (arranging in a protective circle, meditation aids etc.)
 
 
---
17:45 / 11.03.04
I was thinking of wording a spell something like :

Brigit, Cerridwen, and Danu, hear me,
Shiva, Lakshmi and Ganesha, hear me,
Rulers of all four elements, hear me,
Upperworld, middleworld, lowerworld, hear me,
Loa's of the healing realms, guide me, hear me,

I call you forth and ask you to aid me in uncrossing,
In breaking the negative ties and the bindings,
And the inertia and the darkness placed upon me,
For the good of the all, so that i can see clearly,
Without judgement, lies or illusion in my path,
Without Maya, Hex, or curse of wrath,

Help me move forward, uncross and heal,
Help me find center, uncross and heal,
Help me see truth, uncross and heal,

For the good of the all, truth, love, light and peace,

So be it.

This is very rough and pretty lame at the moment, but just to give you an idea.

I think that by calling on healing loas and asking for uncrossing several times, my subconscious should be able to connect with the powers that deal with these type of things, providing i'm in a deep enough trance and my conscious mind is subdued enough with the chanting of the spell.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
07:11 / 12.03.04
BiP - thanks for that link to the Johari Window. I've read Rogers on the dynamics of Self-disclosure, but that framework is a nice tool.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:56 / 12.03.04
Chiron was in Xena wasn't he? I have a lot to say on the wounded healer subject but have decided not to post that in this thread as it's overly personal and I don't go in for talking about that sort of stuff on public forums. BiP, at some point, when I'm online at home, I'll PM you on some of this stuff.

Jack Frost, I really don't want to rot this thread with talk about hoodoo, as close to my heart as the subject is, that's not what this thread is about. So briefly and bluntly, uncrossing is hoodoo, hoodoo is a dialogue with spirit, that dialogue is played out by questing for herbs, stones, roots and candles, if you don't want to do that, you ain't doing hoodoo, you ain't doing uncrossing. That is the basic mechanism of how the spell works. Secondly, your above invocation readily calls on and conflates God/desses from several different traditions. Working with Gods is about relationships. Do you have a living relationship with any one of the names you've just reeled off like a game of top trumps? I mean a relationship that lifts your heart and chills your soul in equal measures? If you want to accomplish something in somebody's names, get to know them first. To quote a sorcerous geezer: "There's a difference between doing a rite, and having the right". There's no shortcuts and there's no such thing as a free lunch. If you want to talk about these issues any further, please start another thread.
 
 
---
16:32 / 12.03.04
Yeah i guess i still haven't got a clue what i'm doing.
 
 
Mr Messy
21:53 / 13.03.04
BiP, I loved the Chiron link. The wounded healer concept makes a lot of sense to me. Yes. Mr Messy arose from a thwarted desire to be perfect and then the realisation that he could simply just be a perfect Mess.

And Gypsy Lantern, the crossing/uncrossing parallel here is fascinating. I have to go away now though. Whenever I pop into Barbelith I get information overload. Now I need to process....
 
 
cusm
01:46 / 14.03.04
Rewind a bit back to this idea of teaching. In a way, the process of counseling and healing can be seen as one of teaching. In either process one is leading another to a new state of mind. Are you helping someone deal with their issues, or teaching them to deal with them themselves? This hits me, as in my own experience of mentoring folks in escoterica, I've found the relationship becomes one as much of healer as teacher. It all gets rather muddled that way, especially when you see pursuit of mystical experience as a process of healing the self to where you are able to be in line with the forces in question. So, definitely some shared tools there.

I find this interesting, as I've never been terribly interested in healing, but can't seem to avoid the task of it. Just in working with people as I do, even on the more casual level, I continually find myself in the position of guiding someone in their mystical exploration which always requires some degree of counseling and healing as a part of the process. Its unavoidable. Any time I find myself in that sort of relationship, I spend some amount of time helping them deal with their shit too, with that relationship reversing on me often enough as well. That it reverses helps enforce the relationship as one of peers, which I prefer in any case.

This sort of thing only happens to me more anymore, too. Even divination for me has become a counseling session. Especially, even, as drawing the runes has become an entirely religious activity for me anymore, relationships built with spirit having grown to that point of respect that I'm doing what I do out of duty and honor of agreements made over the abilites I've gained. This is what happens when you start taking shit seriously. It becomes a job. And healing of one sort or another is a task I find myself with more often than I would have ever intended. But in a way, isn't it the most important? Isn't that why the gods give you the gifts in the first place, so you can use them? See, there's that whole community focus thing, and the traditonal role of shaman as guide and healer. Its inseperable once you get into it. I just always hope I'm able to do well enough with it when I find myself in the position to do so.
 
 
cusm
01:49 / 14.03.04
On another note, of all the experience I've had, the most valuable and useful for the counseling of others has been my own efforts at fixing my own shit. The more I fix within me, the more I can advise others on effectively. You really have to be there to guide anyone else through it. So, I can see the necessity of the process BiP describes in counsellor training.
 
 
cusm
01:51 / 14.03.04
And cripes, would you listen to me going on about "gods giving gifts." Whatever happened to the agnostic irreverently liberated chaote I used to know? Becomming a part of my own mojo, I am.
 
 
---
02:09 / 14.03.04
Wow that's sounds cool to be able to do what your doing. I just hope that if the mist clears i can do things like that myself cusm.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
21:46 / 15.03.04
" Particular relevant within magickal relationships, which I think are poentially a lot less grounded than counselling ones, with a bit of tendency to project all kinds of fantasy aspirations onto the people you meet. Keep your wits about, kids. just 'cos someone's a fourth degree OTO and knows Aleister Crowley's biography backwards, doesn't mean they're not a complete plonker..."

Just for comparison, abuse of the power is a constantly recurring phenomenon in couns. circles as well. It is a position in which alot of power can reside, and again, if your're smart, you 'keep your wits about you'. It's also not uncommon to hear of clients falling in love with their counsellors...

cusm: that's fascinating stuff. I knew someone via my counselling course who is an astrologer, but was finding that his own stuff was interfering with his work, and that alot of his consultations were involving counselling/listening/healing work, so was taking a break and getting himself some counselling skills. Had some very interesting conversations with him about the crossover in terms of the space/relationship, especially in clients he saw repeatedly...
 
 
cusm
21:52 / 15.03.04
Yea, I'm more than half tempted to do as your astrologer friend did at some point. Might be generally helpful if I'm going to find myself doing it anyway...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
00:14 / 16.03.04
You often find people on counselling courses because they've found themself being the 'counsellor/agony aunt' for their circle. good cousn. courses can be very good for examining *why* one ends up in that position, and whether one wants to. One of the things it's given me is much better control over my boundaries/taught me to say no to that role if i don't want to inhabit it.
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply