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Cerebus #300: It Is Accomplished

 
  

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Yotsuba & Benjamin!
16:52 / 03.03.04
Well, in many places (like NYC's Jim Hanley's) Cerebus #300 is available.

I'll be having myself a drink in honor of the staggering achievement this evening. In the back of the book though, Dave makes a plea for people to support, in writing, the maintainance of The Cerebus Archive, which he figures will end up landfill unless enough people come forward supporting its significance as a cultural achievement.

Now, can the most Sim-Hating among us at least get behind the idea that the work needs to be archived for future generations?

The Cerebus Archive
Box 1674 Station C
Kitchener, Ontario
Canada N2G 4R2

Make your voice heard. There are more details in 300, but I'm just curious what others might make of this. It's certainly a unique situation. No corporate backing to gurantee long lasting maintainance of the work (DC, Marvel, et al), no progeny on the way to become executors of the state, etc.

I know I'll be writing.
 
 
_Boboss
16:57 / 03.03.04
archiving? it's all collected in trades isn't it? i'd be tempted to let the future decide.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:11 / 03.03.04
No,archiving the original art and attendant materials, the way one would archive an important manuscript.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:19 / 03.03.04
If I may, forget the archiving for a second - HOW IS IT??? What did you think of it and the way it wraps up the storyline?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:25 / 03.03.04
Fan-fucking-tastic, Hunter. Just really beautiful and funny and heartfelt. No politicking or screeding about the female genetalia. Just a very sweet ending. And

S

P

A

H

O

I

L

E

R

the appearance of anyone you'd ever want to appear and that you've missed lo these many years.

*sniff*
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:31 / 03.03.04
Five Questions For Dave Sim:

Your views on the differences between males and females has certainly had an impact on the way people perceive both you and your work. How would you say the rather public development of your philosophies impacted Cerebus, and yourself?

How my views on gender relationships impacted Cerebus and myself is impossible to say, because I don't have a "control group" Cerebus and Dave Sim who went through the entire 300 issues without once raising gender issues. That hypothetical Cerebus and Dave Sim might have been wildly successful or they might have long ago vanished into obscurity. In the former case, I have made a terrible, life-diminishing error in judgment in addressing gender issues in my work. In the latter case, I have saved myself from the yawning face of the abyss in addressing gender issues in my work. I'll just have to see how it all hatches out and try to preserve Cerebus as best I can.


Hmmm.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:40 / 03.03.04
Ooh! Thanks for that hot-ass link, Lady. Though numerous are the ways I disagree with the man philosophically, I can always get behind his desire to have his work judged on its own merits, a desire he eloquently establishes in that interview.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:57 / 03.03.04
No,archiving the original art and attendant materials, the way one would archive an important manuscript.

Um. Does that mean buying them from Dave Sim? Only it occurs to me that ancient manuscripts tend to be valuable for what they can shed on the transmission of the text. Cerebus is not an antic text, at least in one sense. It is as it appears in the comics, the bi-weekly reissues and the graphic novels. Surely the only aim in collectng the original art is the joy of collecting?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:59 / 03.03.04
P.S. Tee hee. The US overthrowing the corrupt régime in Saudi Arabia. That's absolutely hilarious. It's like parallel Dave.
 
 
V.
21:03 / 03.03.04
Very many noted authors (or their families) have donated their papers to universities. What Dave suggests is nothing out of the ordinary for a work of literature that's seen as valuable to the human race. He's just acknowledging that given the his marginal position in the comic book market, and given the comic book market's marginal position in the literary world, it's extremely unlikely that his Cerebus Archive would be preserved by outsiders without someone calling attention to the fact that Cerebus is, in fact, a great literary work.

That's where we come in.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
21:13 / 03.03.04
Thank you, V. Much more eloquent than I could've managed.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:47 / 03.03.04
That's where we come in.

Sorry, I still don't understand. *Where* do we come in? Is the idea that by somebody spending a large amount of money to buy the current Cerebus incunabula, the importance of the work can be verified through a demonstration of its market value? I'm not actually sure academic collections work to a push model...

Alternatively, is he instead looking to donate these papers to a university, and wishes us to contact educational establishments and assure them of the lasting importance of the work, and recommend that they accept the donation?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
22:14 / 03.03.04
Haus,

Yes, that's what he's asking. All correspondence will be forwarded to a local university in order to convince them that materials should preserved and not burned/thrown away.
 
 
houdini
18:45 / 04.03.04

Wow.

Must. Drink. Hard. Liquor.

Oh, and my comics collecting is now officially one issue away from freedom: New X meN # 154.
 
 
_Boboss
08:28 / 05.03.04
i doubt the feminist/homosexualist axis who run the western education system will be all that keen to clear the shelf-space for him. evil stupid useless gay and female bastards that they are.


at odds with the conciliatory tone of this thread i admit. but whatever, got the arse a bit this morning.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
11:12 / 05.03.04
And much in keeping with the mountainous wave of unrelated chunder that Dave is, has been, and will be met with in his efforts to have Cerebus judged on its own merits and not on the merits of what is basically its Director's Commentary track.

But he'd probably be the last person to urge you to let reason stop you.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:34 / 05.03.04
Ah, well, that's it, isn't it? Is Cerebus the work of a woman-fearing homophobic nutcase, or is it a work of woman-fearing homophobic nutcasery? Is it fair to judge the work by the man? Personally, it seems a bit odd to argue that Cerebus the Aardvark should be Smithsonianised in the place of other work of greater cultural importance, but if there's a university with a bit of display space...


More generally, now it's finished, what specifically is it about Cerebus that makes it special? The length? The conditions under which it was created? What revolutionary techniques did it introduce into comics (interspersing panel grids with pages of text?)? Ultimately, what is its artistic and cultural worth, within and without the frame of reference of other comics?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:10 / 05.03.04
[W]hat specifically is it about Cerebus that makes it special? The length?

Well, that's definitely one thing. I think a six thousand page, coherent work in any medium ought to be singled out. I mean, isn't that really the only reason people take Henry Darger seriously?

The conditions under which it was created?

The fact that it was self published, monthly, for the entirety of its run (something Bone was unable to accomplish for a much shorter span of issues and on a much more erratic schedule [and with no zip-a-toning to worry about]) should undoubtedly be recognized.

What revolutionary techniques did it introduce into comics (interspersing panel grids with pages of text?)?

Well, there are no revolutionary techniques in comics, as near as I can tell. It's all words and pictures and varying combinations of the two. I think the advances he did make in those combinations were really just to keep things interesting (see: Life's Simple Pleasures in Going Home) and not a result of any real drive to revitalize the medium.

Ultimately, what is its artistic and cultural worth, within and without the frame of reference of other comics?

I think a lot of the above lays out the most salient arguments, but to sum up, this is a 6000 page novel of sequential art, a story with a beginning middle and end, put out in monthly installments by two dedicated crafstmen. But really, why bother, when Mr. Stephen Holland of Page 45, lays it all out there, in the most strident way possible:

1977 to 2004. You think about that.

And then you tell me that this single story written and drawn by one man and his virtuoso landscape artist - month in, month out, with a beginning, a middle and an end - consistently entertaining, provocative and beautiful to behold... You tell me that this is not just a significant achievement, but the very fucking pinnacle of a relatively infant medium, which will be virtually impossible to surpass.

Go on. You sit there and have the temerity, the impertinence, and the self-incriminating illiteracy to find me one other contender to that throne.

The fact that any other letterer could possibly win an Eisner in any given year, shows how vacuous and bankrupt those awards are.

There are approximately six other creators who could give Dave Sim a run for his money in terms of inspiration, innovation, intelligence and storytelling capability combined: Los Bros Hernandez, Chris Ware, Jim Woodring, Eddie Campbell, and - if he could draw - Alan Moore. There are hundreds of others whom I admire wholeheartedly, but few of them come close to those air-thin heights, and not one of those aforementioned creators has accomplished a quarter of what Dave Sim has achieved in the awesome, demanding, infuriating, and wit-ridden epic that is Cerebus.

That the man has contributed an equal and unparalleled measure to this industry is irrelevant to be sure.

But the fact that Dave Sim is not universally regarded as the very finest comicbook creator to this point in time, is a crime of unbelievable, culpable and fundamentally ungrateful ignorance.

If, you know, you’re asking.


Amen.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:34 / 05.03.04
I don't know....is mere bigness really a qualification? Sticking to a task for 27 years is certainly *impressive*, but it doesn't mean that the result of that devotion is necessarily good; measuring art by the Persian chain is never a winner. As such, altohugh Cerebus is certainly interesting as a project, and has a lot to tell us about how one self-publishes, and is in places a very impressive comic, I'm not sure that gives it a greater cliam for its incunabula to become part of an academic collection than shorter and more quickly completed pieces...
 
 
_Boboss
14:52 / 05.03.04
and if you want people to look after your work for you when you're done with it, don't spend the twenty-seven preceding years slagging them off. there's a reason why it's good to be nice - one day you might need folk to be nice back.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:12 / 05.03.04
I read this yesterday - it's ok, but didn't strike me as anything amazing in and of itself. Can we start spoiler reviews/discussion of this issue now?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:38 / 05.03.04
Hell fuckin' yes.
 
 
sleazenation
15:59 / 05.03.04
it still isn't out in the UK yet - are you guys reading an advance preview type thing or what?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
16:06 / 05.03.04
It's most likely going to hit Diamond Distributed stores next week, but those rare stores with a direct Aardvark Vanaheim feed (such as the fine Jim Hanley's Comicsporium) got it this Wednesday. Also, direct subscribers.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:50 / 05.03.04
SPOILERS




So that explains why Jim Hanley's had it but my beloved Midtown Comics didn't.



Anyway.

******

SPOILERS! Warned ya!


OK, so Cerebus gets all uppity and ornery about something in the first pages, his old and wrinkly self saying "Cerebus is gonna kill them!!" He steps off his bed (he's on something, either a stood, bed or chair) and falls off in slow motion. It seems that this is how he dies: alone in a room, all excited to kill or hurt those who he feels have hurt him. And he trips off the bed and hits the floor, thinking "Thank you, God" as he dies. His bones are too old and brittle to survive the fall. His body slowly starts to become dust, his bones are that brittle.

Then our beloved earth-pig's soul leaves his body just like in many TV and movie bits. He then has visions of everyone he ever knew or cared about (or was bothered by) and has a vision of God. The light begins to consume him, and he says stuff like "Oh, God, the light is getting me, God, the light is taking me!!!!" And the pages go blank. The end.

Followed by (and preceded by) lots of essays by Sim about his religious conversion over the course of the comic, his views on women, various letters from people, and even a prayer Sim wrote (a four-page prayer).

I wasn't that impressed. The enormity of his task is amazing, but this didn't really grab me. It seemed like every cliche of a character dying in the book. But it sure was beautifully drawn, with great Will Eisner-like lettering (I always did feel Sim was a genius at lettering, taking the ball from Will Eisner's expressive lettering and running with it).

It seemed like the comic was 60% comic and 40% essays/prayers by Sim & letters. But that seems to be the usual breakdown of the Cerebus comic lately.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
23:57 / 05.03.04
Aw man, fig the essays and bull crap.

Cerebus was thanking God because he hadn't farted in months and he ate a lot of cheese that day. No joke.

His body didn't really become dust. He just, you know, became light, light took him and he saw all his old friends. He left with a quick Rabbi gag, and ended things with (although there has been much contention about this over the in the Cerebus Newsgroup neck of the woods) the final Rick gag.

Man, I loved it. Who among you had not been waiting aeons to see him draw Boobah or Lord Julius again? Or the Fleagles?

Or, *sigh* The Regency Elf....
 
 
sleazenation
13:13 / 06.03.04
More generally, now it's finished, what specifically is it about Cerebus that makes it special? The length? The conditions under which it was created? What revolutionary techniques did it introduce into comics (interspersing panel grids with pages of text?)? Ultimately, what is its artistic and cultural worth, within and without the frame of reference of other comics?


Inside the realm of comics, I think the main artistict point that mark Cerebus out are its length, its scale of vision (a 300 issue narrative) and its means of production as a self owned self published comic. Sim's use of lettering is also particularly worthy of praise, as some of the layouts and sense of design (there is a great panel in the GUYS storyline when we are treated to a fantastic depition of the feeling od a hangover).

Cerebus' cultural worth to comics is the fact that it is a singular achievement. How many other comics creators have spent as long on a single work which the creator also owns? The only equivelents I can think of come from the world of newspaper strips.

Outside of the frame of reference of other comics, I think Cerebus is more remarkable for its means of production, its existance as a self-published work of high technical quality.

Is it worthy of study? I believe so. But I have a sneaking suspicion that the degree of control that Sim would have to reliquish when donating the 'cerebus papers' would eventually infuriate the creator.
 
 
sleazenation
10:19 / 07.03.04
by the by has anyone bought this or does anyone intend to buy it who does not regularly buy the book?
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
15:50 / 07.03.04
so, Sim isnot putting a gun to hs head, but is doing the Cat Stevens? curious how this doesn't surprise me at all.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:58 / 07.03.04
Dave Sim? A Muslim?

Dude, that's so fifteen minutes ago.

 
 
sleazenation
09:24 / 12.03.04
Read this now. Not much to add. The final page's fade to white (with the exception of a small hat) seemed somewhat predictable.

Maybe I'll get round to reading it as a whole now...

After reading the text of Sim's desire to bequest the cerebus archieve to an academic institution I think its value as a unique achievement, or as a publishing curiosity it make it a worthy aquisition.
 
 
Krug
14:56 / 13.03.04
Never read Cerebus because it seems like a lot of money to spend on a misogynist and a guy everybody with any sense generally hates. Still I will check it out sooner or later. This muslim thing is quite shocking though.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
15:48 / 13.03.04
Cerebus is an amazing achievement for a number of reasons but the ones not touched on here are:

The mastery of the form. Even if you dislike the stories Sim has told over the past 10 years or so, the pages he draws are utterly amazing, and show that he is the best storyteller in comics since Eisner. No one is able to use layout as well as Sim.

Creating a new business model. Think back to 1977...Jim Shooter wasn't the editor in chief of Marvel yet, Harvey was still publishing over 30 books a month, and there was next to no direct market. Sim self-published, worked only in the direct market, then created the current way of thinking about trade paperacks with the "phonebooks" and did it all on his own with only one assistant.

Myself, I still think that if he would have stopped with Jaka's Story, he would be revered by the same people who tear him down now, and his "anti-woman" stance comes more from the fact that he HAS lived in his own little world of his own making for at least 15 years (and probably longer).

But as an achievement, it is amazing that he dedicated his life to a story that started as a Conan parody, and outlasted Conan in comics, and moved into the realms he did.
 
 
nofun
22:07 / 13.03.04
"by the by has anyone bought this or does anyone intend to buy it who does not regularly buy the book?"

I did yesterday. It made me think. I picked up my first Cerebus at a comic shop/record store when I was but a small brat reading Mad, racked, and especially Marvel's Crazy magazine. I had read "Howard the Duck" magazine, and knew him from his frontispiece in one of them. It was issue 50, where Cerebus was stomping through an empty Presidential palace, where apparently a quiet cataclysm had taken place. I was blown away. I thought that "something really important had just happened".

I became hooked, tracking down every issue from #23 on, bought the Swords reprints, plus EVERY interview, t-shirt, and "cross-over", no matter how stupid. One of these goofy "cameos" was in the Magik miniseries (Sim the Demon), which begat X-Men. This lead to a regular trip to the Comic shop to find out what else might be good. Long story short, I then discovered every important book: Daredevil, the Dark Knight Returns, Swamp Thing, Elektra Assassin, Miracle Man et al, and my trips to the comic shop became twice a week. I discovered a rather odd book called "Doom Patrol" that way as well.

Fast forward a few years...Marvel and DC achieve greatness, and then piss it all away. Two speculation busts have lead to general newsstand mediocrity. I'm still hitting the increasingly wretched shops, to pick up only the Invisibles, Sandman (suffering as well), and Cerebus. Issue # 227 of Cerebus roles around, and I realize Cerebus (and Sim) hasn't left the bar in three years. That's the last issue I buy.
Invisibles ends, and I bid goodbye to the shops.

Anyway, about 3 months ago while I'm packing up stuff for moving/sale, I discover my old comics hoard. I remember that issue #300 is coming up. I pick up 297 and find it rather odd- a sad shell of an aardvark and a sad shell of Dave Sim. Like the old saying about Woody Allen goes- I still like "the older funnier stuff". I'm still split between picking up ~75 back issues, and just selling the lot I have- the collection some 12-year old twerp put together with his lunch money. I dunno...I'll have to think a bit about it.

But, for whatever it's worth with this series- "something really important has just happened".
 
 
THX-1138
22:26 / 13.03.04
I think maybe the fart propelled him just enough to snap his neck..
:-)
 
  

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