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Drug Testing in Schools

 
  

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luda
10:02 / 12.03.04
ha ha haa, r u all agreeing with me or are you all byrn bummers!
 
 
luda
10:07 / 12.03.04
fuck a doodle doo
 
 
Lurid Archive
10:41 / 12.03.04
I'm sure that people will reply when they have something to say, luda. In the meantime, you should probably know filler posts like the one above are considered threadrot and are sometimes deleted, in the interests of keeping a thread on track.

Back to the drugs:

You have to assume that the testing is going to be primarily for cannibis. In which case, this introduces a strong incentive for drug takers to switch to a drug that doesn't stay in the body as long. Like E or speed. That can't be a good thing.
 
 
Grey Area
12:06 / 12.03.04
"On the other hand you shouldn't be compelled to tell them anything, you should just be aware that for your personal safety it's best to inform them"

Taking this statement out of the context of the doctor-patient scenario provides one of the arguments the proponents of drug tests in schools would offer: That it is better to know who is taking drugs and therefore ensure the safety of the non-drug taking student body. They would argue that drugs lead to altered, possibly violent or destructive, behaviour patterns that cannot be controlled by authority figures (ie: teachers) and that therefore those who might pose a threat be identified and dealt with.

"There are many other ways of identifying troubled children, a good teacher will be able to spot these before they start smoking crack"

Yes, granted. But given the overworked nature of the teaching body in general these days, can we rely on a teacher still having the time, regardless of personal motivation, to deal with a student like this? Most of the problems that lead to drug-use cannot be solved with a single heart-to-heart. The solutions require a considerable investment on the part of the teacher that many are just not able to bring anymore.

I'd say that one of the main problems with this issue is that the people who will have the most input regarding it, namely the parents, have been bombarded in recent times with the message that the world outside their front door is one scary place where everyone is out to get their children. The government is sure to try and make it look like they're protecting the kids from anything and everything, because this gains them valuable brownie points with the parents. Hence the kind of legislation we see now...
 
 
Quireboy
12:09 / 12.03.04
At least one private school in England already carries out urine tests on pupils suspected of taking drugs.
 
 
Smoothly
13:23 / 12.03.04
Lurid, do you really think that people see drugs as being interchangable like that? I just find it hard to imagine someone in the mood for a smoke, realising that this might cause them a problems under their school's drug testing regime, and deciding to hoover up some whizz instead. You know?
I suppose what I'm saying is that the argument that disuading someone from smoking cannabis is going to push them towards Es and speed, sounds a bit like the kind of Daily Mail rhetoric that gives little consideration to the differences between various drugs. I, for one, have never thought of dropping a pill as a substitute for a couple of joints. But then I'm old and out of touch with how tha kidz treat these things.

On the other hand, I can see how someone might to booze in those circumstances. And that, I'd agree, is no good thing.
 
 
vampire demon
05:48 / 31.03.04
I am doing a report in school on random drug testing. One school stated that they don't pick the students for testing, the lab picks them. All kids at the lab are known by number so there are no names. The numbers picked are sent to the school. The school gets the kids who are picked and send the samples to the lab by number. The numbers are sent back to the school with the numbers. No discrimination there. I feel this is a good idea for the large schools. Not all kids can be watched. One parent said children should be treated as parents treat them at home, since schools are a surrogate parent. He was basically saying if a child is abused at home, the school should abuse them. If a child is
ignored, they should be ignored at school. I totally disagree with them. The school is just looking out for the interest of hundreds of students, that outweighs one student. And if a child doesn't do drugs they don't have anything to worry about and should happily agree to a drug test. I know I before at work and I am willing to do so again if I have to.
 
 
bjacques
11:56 / 31.03.04
As the Dead Kennedys used to say, if you like school, you'll love work.

It looks like Labour are being clever in the way that the Reagan Administration were. They don't pass a law mandating drug testing--even Reagan couldn't get away with that--but instead grant permission to grade schools and companies, where Constitutional / English Bill of Rights protections are weak.

(This is not allowed in the Netherlands; I don't know about the rest of the EU.)

(U.S. Libertarian silence on this issue seems like a whopping blind spot. Governments can't test for drugs but companies can? It's hard to say "go get a different job" when the market's bad and most companies test anyway. And where does it stop? Can the boss demand you quit smoking, go to (his) church on Sunday? Stay in the closet if you're gay? If you don't like it, quit. And decriminalizing some drugs won't necessarily lead to changes in company policies.)

Random drug testing is wrong for a number of reasons.

It presumes guilt; innocence must be proven. It lumps the innocent in with the guilty. All are suspect from the moment you walk in the door. Treat people like criminals and they behave accordingly, sooner or later. People using the "nothing to hide" argument should be forced to live in glass houses with webcams and microphones installed, and all the data of their lives should be made public. The rest of us are under no such obligation.

Years ago, when my former workplace set up a drug testing policy, a cow-orker suggested that all of us in the department set an example by volunteering. I was shocked to say the least; the guy had been falsely accused of robbing a local bank, on the basis of a blurry photo taken at an ATM. The local prosecutor only grudgingly dropped the case; meanwhile the guy spend about $50,000 on a lawyer. I'd thought he'd defend presumption of innocence more fiercely.

Random testing's ostensible rationale is to prevent drug use at school or at work, but it also regulates behavior off the clock. In other words, the boss or principal has you only 40-48 hours a week; drug testing lets hir watch you the rest of the time. Last I checked, I only get paid for 40 hours.

It punishes one's chemical condition, not actual behavior. Taking or holding illegal drugs at school or work, or being clearly under their influence, is legitimately actionable. Having their metabolites long after the high and/or hangover are past is not.
 
 
Baz Auckland
15:30 / 31.03.04
the other problem with drugs tests is that it assumes that every teenager who does drugs warrants counselling and/or expulsion. While some children do, I think they're the minority, especially looking at the rates of marijuana use in high schools... it's the same as on the job testing. If the drug use has no apparent effect on their job, why test?
 
 
Nobody's girl
14:56 / 04.01.05
Aww,
this sucks. The Piss Police are on the march.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
17:16 / 04.01.05
It does indeed

Mr Walker said no child would be tested against his or wishes.
" If a child says no to being tested we will call the parents into the school and discuss it. It might indicate that the child has been taking stuff and doesn't want to be found out. We will then discuss the situation. "


The implication being that whatever smart-arse fifth and sixth formers that refuse to take this test because it's an invasion of their civil liberties ( and let's face it, how many people on this board would NOT have been in this category, whether or not they'd been near any drugs, ) will be forced to capitulate, or face being demonised in any subsquent references provided by the school. So much for being innocent until proven guilty, then. And it's always a mistake when that principle's compromised.

And I wonder if this guy really understands what being under a duty of care with regard to his pupils actually means - Bearing in mind that the consequences of being caught taking drugs are generally speaking far more damaging to the user's well-being, in terms of lost income, prospects, opportunities and so on, than all but the most dire effects of the drugs themselves, to effectively go on this kind of a witch hunt through the ranks of a school that you as head teacher are supposed to be looking after, apparently regardless of the trouble you'll cause for your unlucky victims, seems a bit much really. I mean I wouldn't someone like that looking after my kids anyway.
 
 
diz
19:06 / 04.01.05
Is the UK getting scarily like the US or what?

oh, just wait. in the US, there's a market for home drug testing kits, which are marketed primarily to parents who want to force their own children to submit to piss tests.

what kind of insane, fucked-up crazy person do you have to be to be making your own kids pee in a cup to prove they're not using drugs?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:15 / 06.01.05
It's cute that this guy thinks that drug tests are going to give kids 'the excuse they need' not to take drugs. "I was going to try the horse but now I think I'll give it a miss, ta!"
 
 
Tom Morris
15:47 / 16.01.05
To whomever suggested that to defeat ID cards, you need to convince Peter Hitchens and Melanie Phillips - we are already there, considering that Hitchens is solidly against them and has published a book called The Abolition of Liberty which contained many arguments against ID cards. And Melanie Phillips published an article back in 2002 against them.

Alas, convincing the rightist commentators doesn't seem to have done much, considering that this is a profoundly lefty move, IMHO. It is done by those who embrace the state as the solution to all problems rather than as the cause of most of them.
 
  

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