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Is there any good fantasy anywhere?

 
  

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mkt
22:04 / 10.03.04
Ooh, I must second M John Harrison. He's one of my best finds of the past couple of years. He has mastered that glittering prose where things - amazing things, things that other people would write whole books about - just twinkle in the background and are left to your imagination. Perfect restraint. Also, very like Pullman in his attention to detail - so much so that I suspect Pullman to be a fan (there are significant similarities between the worlds used in the Viriconium stories and the HDM triology).
I'm afraid I found his earliest stuff a little clunky, but hey - at least it's because he's trying too hard.
A great start would be "In Viriconium" or "Viriconium Nights" - the Viriconium stuff is his most fantasy-ish. His short stories and less obviously fantasy-based fiction are also amazing, though - and all set in a world not quite like our own.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
10:54 / 11.03.04
There's a lot of shit celtic fantasy out there but I would reccomend Robert Holdstock's Merlin Codex series. Merlin meets jason seems like a silly idea but somehow it works, surprisingly well written. Also similar warning over Arthurian work and possibly not fantasy strictly but I would suggest bernard Cornwell's Arthur books as well.

I can't reccomend the George RR Martin books enough. I'd pretty much given up on the genre as a whole until I read them. They seem to be one of the few fantasy books written for an adult audience.

Strictly speaking (according to her anyway) they're actually SF books but check out Mary Gentle's White Crow books. Historical fanatsy/alternate histories, the Invisible College, giant rats, missing play by Marlowe I couldn't get into them that much when I read them first time, except the cyberpunk story, but I was left with the distinct impression there was a good novel going on around me.

For modern urban fantasy I'd reccoment Charles De Lint, stay away from his earlier stuff it's shit but try Trader and Someplace to be Flying (my favorite).

I'd also agree with the Mieville (though I('m convinced he's a D&D player) and Harrison reccomendations though I've not read much of Harrison beyong Light (SF) and some of his JC short stories.

Finally it's not the best written book ever but it is fun and it is about pirates (and it's got a groovy name) Chase the Morning Sun, though the authors name escapes me it's Micahel Something Scott I think.

Hope this is of use.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
16:12 / 11.03.04
Michael Scott Rowan I believe.
 
 
quinine92001
17:34 / 11.03.04
Anyone read J. Robert King's Merlin the Mad ( Mad Merlin?) or Lancelot Du Luc books? They are supposed to be a retelling of the Arthur myths and I see them in the book store but never have bought them. What about A.A. Anatasio's Arthurian Legends, from Merlin to Arthur to the grail?
I can't recommend Mieville's The Scar enough! Buy it now and watch out how many times the word scar is used. One of the best scenes is when a character french kisses a cthuloid demon statue to gain invisibility.
 
 
Mirror
21:02 / 11.03.04
Ye gods but some of you have wretched taste. Stephen R. Donaldson? Robert Jordan? Michael freaking Moorcock? And don't even get me started on that bloody Dragonlance crap. I couldn't even stand those hacks when I was a geeky, pimply-faced teen. Raymond E Fiest is also a hack, although I have to admit to having enjoyed Faerie Tale.

I do, however, have to agree most heartily with whoever mentioned His Dark Materials. That's one of the best fantasy series I've ever read, apart from the classics (Tolkien, Lewis.) Guy Gavriel Kay can be decent at times as well, although he walks the line.

Fundamentally, I think that the problem with most fantasy is that it doesn't have enough to say - it's primarily escapist, whereas sci-fi is frequently pretty thoughtful with respect to the future of humankind, social institutions, and morality. Call me an elitist snob if you like, but I've done my time in the trenches reading bad fantasy. I suspect that if I'd focused on sci-fi earlier in my life, I would have perhaps spent less time wishing I could escape my life, and more time creating something useful.
 
 
quinine92001
22:27 / 11.03.04
What about the Shadow of the Torturer series by Gene Wolfe? Or the the Urth of the New Sun series? Myself I like Soldier of the Mist but haven't read the other two series.
 
 
A fall of geckos
13:10 / 12.03.04
I read the Shadow of the Torturer series when I was about 14, and it made quite an impact on me - it seemed unlike any fantasy novel I'd read from the strange grotesque quality of the world to the sympathetic yet often immoral (possibly amoral) central character. I recognised some of the tone later in Borges who Gene Wolf seems to have been influenced by.

As people have mentioned at least one young adult book, I'd like to put in a recommendation for the Borribles trilogy. In fact, I can't recommend these books enough. They're set in 1970s industrial London, with the heroes being feral, street-wise children who "grew up wrong", ran away from home and changed into Borribles.

The first story started as a parody of the childrens show The Wombles (transformed here into Rumbles), but the series really comes into it's own in after this. The author uses and perverts just about every children's fantasy archetype with the Borribles themselves being grunge Peter Pans. The mystical world that would normally be through a wardrobe is instead a mental world consisting of a complete defiance of all society's rules. The book even uses the common fantasy staple - the epic song, but again uses it within the authors own wonderfully seditions agenda:

Ben the Tramps Song

Wot’s the point of workin’ ‘ard?
Wot’s the good of gainin’ riches?
Money’s mean and banks are bitches;
Profit’s just a prison yard.

Sling yer ‘ook an’ sling it stealthy;
Gob some grub an’ swig some booze,
Find a place ter kip and snooze-
Now you’re ‘ealthy, wise an’ wealthy!

Let the world roll round an’ round,
Wiv its hard-worked folk in fetters:
All ‘oo think themselves yer betters,
Money-mad and dooty-bound.

Make yer choice, there ain’t so many,
No ambition’s worth a fart;
Freedom is a work of art-
Take yer stand with uncle Benny!

The books were withdrawn from many shops following the killing of a policeman during riots in the 80s - for a short time they were vilified by the press due to their moral ambiguity. They've finally come back into print though (I believe at the request of China Mieville) and should be easy to find in the collected edition – the author is Michael De Larrabeiti. I read them when I was about 11 and was breathtaken by the wonderful subversiveness of the series.

I read them again last year and wasn’t disappointed. Although I’ve aged, the books still seemed to stand up - especially in the blend of fantasy and industrial London which is handled superbly.

Sorry for the long post, but these books blew my mind when I was a kid and I tend to see them as required reading for all.
 
 
astrojax69
03:53 / 27.04.04
tolkein? i've heard he's good...


[call you lich back... : ) ]
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:33 / 27.04.04
Mirror: I think the redemptive qualities of sci-fi over fantasy is probably too big a topic to fit into this thread comfortably, but it's a very interesting question - do you fancy starting a new thread? If not, I'll knock one up when I get a moment. In general, on ecan assume that there is somebody reading here who might take your recommendation as a sign of incredible stupidity or apalling taste, and just carry on regardless.

Another young adults novel (and forgive me if this has already been recommended, I just did a quick readover to check but may have missed it) - Sabriel by Garth Nix. Bits of this are quite straight-ahead fantasy, and some of the generic elements can be pretty irritating, but there are some really nice ideas - the use of bells and whistles (no, actually) in magic, and most of all the way our heroine is sent to the comparatively civilised south to be raised, meaning that various parts of this sword and sorcery novel take place in girls' boarding school. All you need, really.
 
 
Thjatsi
10:22 / 28.04.04
Before I list my recommendations, I'll explain what I like and dislike about the genre. This way, those of you with differing tastes won't have to waste your time or money, and people with similar opinions will be more likely to take a look at my choices.

I love the goal oriented nature of fantasy literature. The basic story of almost all fantasy novels consists of an individual striving to achieve his or her aims while being confronted with obstacles that appear impossible to surmount. However, the protagonist almost always finds a way to solve these problems. Reading fantasy novels gives me a sense of hope that I too might be able to achieve my goals. In addition, I think they provide a small piece of the courage I need not to give up on my own values or the search for happiness.

In order to receive these positive emotions from fantasy novels I require a certain level of artistic ability from the author. Unfortunately, this is exactly what most fantasy authors are lacking. Creativity is almost nonexistant. The vast majority of writers in this genre are content with merely renovating the same stale world of elves and orcs. The authors who have somehow managed to think of a couple semi-innovative ideas seem terrified that they won't be able to do it a second time, and survive by extending their series to comical lengths. The most egregious example of this is Robert Jordan, who has somehow managed to apply Xeno's Paradox to the concept of plot. Or, to put it more simply, half as much gets accomplished in every book.

I'm also not too fond the the 'choosen one' concept that you find in most fantasy. Most of the heroes and heroines in these stories have achieved their position not through overcoming adversity, but by divine right of birth. To use an example from classical mythology, killing medusa isn't that big of a deal if Aunt Athena comes down from the clouds and hands you the fucking arsenal of the gods. But, this is equivalent to what happens in almost every fantasy novel.

Now, if I haven't alienated my entire potential audience, I'll list my recommendations:

Master of the Five Magics by Lyndon Hardy
Alodar, the protagonist of this novel, is the son of an aristocrat who lost everything and died shortly thereafter. The plot centers around the hero's pursuit of his lost status. I only have two complaints about this book. First, there's an, 'Oh, by the way, we need you to save the world', dilema that pops up at the very end of the book. Second, there are two sequels where the author takes everything he did right in the first book and reverses it. For example, he replaces the stoic unyielding hero of the first book with a whiney new character who quits as soon as he hears the word adversity.

In Legend Born by Laura Resnick
This book's plot centers on a group of rebels attempting to remove an occupying empire from their homeland. I actually went through this story in one day, stopping only to go to the bathroom.

I'd also recommend Robin Hobb's work, though with some reservations. She's one of the best writers in the genre, but her work tends to be a bit on the bleak side.
 
 
Busigoth
15:14 / 28.04.04
I skimmed through the thread & don't believe anyone's mentioned Andre Norton. I loved her Witch World series, getting hooked on Year of the Unicorn . She was writing fantasy novels before anyone ever heard of Tolkien.

P.S. Yaay!! I finally remembered how to add underlining!
 
 
Sekhmet
12:46 / 29.04.04
Okay, people have mentioned all but one of my recommendations already, so I'll just add the one: Steven Brust. He has several one-offs, and two ongoing series set in different time periods of the same world, one very "Three Musketeers" - done in flowery historical style, in a satirical way, and the other a cloak-and-dagger, darkly humorous series about an assasin-witch named Vlad Taltos. Damn good books. The world and the characters are complex and well-developed, and the style is very witty. These are virtually the only books that make me laugh aloud till tears are rolling down my face, and it's not Robert-Aspirin silly humor, it's sharp, satirical and ironic.
 
 
Ex
14:27 / 29.04.04
More from the kid's shelves; Philip Reeve's Mortal Engines is phenomenally inventive. It's all rather steampunk, so possibly on the cusp between fantasy and sci-fi, but more clunky than shiny. It's set in a future of moving cities and Municipal Darwinism: "it was natural that cities ate towns, just as the towns ate smaller towns, and smaller towns snapped up the miserable static settlements."

And there's a sequel out - Predator's Gold, which I will be snapping up when I'm next grinding around a large bookshop.
 
 
h1ppychick
17:37 / 29.04.04
One of my favourite writers is Dave Duncan. As well as some excellent standalone fantasy (The Cursed) and sci-fi (Strings), he has written a number of series which are noteworthy.

My first introduction to him was through his 3 book series The Coming of Wisdom, in which he takes a fairly standard 'changed world' premise and puts an interesting twist on it.

Based of this I then read his 4-book series A Man of His Word and the sequel series Upland Outlaws - this takes a different view on principles of magic and has engaging characters.

Another series of his which I haven't read all of but which is well-regarded in the genre is The Great Game, which may be worth a look.

Finally, his most recent work centres around a world which is dominated by elemental magic and which focuses on an organisation called The King's Blades, tales of highly-trained swordsmen arcanely bound to protect personages of power. Some interesting politics and alternate reality plays here.

On a different note, if you like fantasy involving religious magic and you may want to try Katherine Kurtz's Deryni novels. These started with the Camber series, which again are interesting from a court politics point of view, but decline in quality towards the end of the King Kelson books and become somewhat soap opera-ish in nature.

If you really like soap opera fantasy, try Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince books - she is a bit more restrained when it comes to The Chronicles of Ambrai which are well written with involved plotting, but unfortunately the third book of the trilogy has been 'forthcoming' for about five years now and the date keeps on being put back. She has also written an interesting 'art magic' book called The Colden Key (and a sequel which I haven't read).

That'll do for now, I think.
 
 
h1ppychick
17:45 / 29.04.04
Corrections to the above re Dave Duncan's books: The Coming of Wisdom series is actually called The Seventh Sword.

Upland Outlaws is the name of one of the four books in the series A Handful of Men.

Oops.
 
 
Jack_Rackem
22:56 / 01.05.04
Jack Vance's Tales of a Dying Earth is pretty good.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
17:06 / 02.05.04
For some reason, no one's mentioned the 'Shannaron' series of books...er, is that what they were (quite possibly why no one has mentioned them, there)..You know, 'The Elfstones of Shannaron', 'The Fishcakes of Shannaron' and so on and so forth...I know that author was definitely a hack, but I liked the one with the ninja-bad-ass-assassin-dude with a name like Jaxx something or other.

Basement Jaxx, maybe...No, that probably wasn't it. Anyway, check it out, if you like. It's shit, but fun.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
17:11 / 02.05.04
OK, so it's 'Shannara' not 'Shannaron', and the dude iTerry Brooks...

He did another book called 'Magic Kingdom - For Sale/Sold!', which, in spite of the title, was also enjoyable to a 15 year old, can't really vouch for it now, but there you go.

Ah, wonderful Google. Don't say I don't do nuthin' for ya now!
 
 
illmatic
12:07 / 04.05.04
Gekko: I'm going to start a thread on The Borribles, so this thread doesn't get clogged up on the off chance that anyone else has read them.
 
 
A fall of geckos
15:41 / 05.05.04
"Gekko: I'm going to start a thread on The Borribles, so this thread doesn't get clogged up on the off chance that anyone else has read them."

Cool - I'll join in as soon as I have time to consider the topic.

Quick question - has anyone read The Year of Our War by Steph Swainston, and if so, is it any good? It's being pushed by the New Weird crowd, which makes me curious.
 
 
osymandus
18:03 / 25.05.04
Well as everyones alreasdy metioned David Gemmell (especally the Druss and Waylander series !(Id love to see a fight between Druss and Elric and i dont fancy the pale skin ones chances !)) and Ursla La Guin. R A Salvatorie the Dark Elf Trilogey . (Not teh current Stars Wars books though ) .

And for a light fluffy (ok SF read) The Rougue Squadron series of Star Wars books (between the End of teh empire and teh really bad new ones !)
 
 
Lord Morgue
11:52 / 26.05.04
I'd like to pimp Erik Van Lustbader's "Sunset Warrior" series, and H.P. Lovecraft's Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath.
OOH! And C.L. Moore's Jirel of Joiry stories, The Lords of Dus series by Lawrence Watt-Evans, and Lin Carter's World's End series.
 
 
Undermost Salamander
18:32 / 28.05.04
I have a bit of a fetish for SF authors who do fantasy novels, so I'm going to recommend C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy and Kate Elliott's Novels of the Jaran.

the Coldfire Trilogy is set in a world where a belief-based magic works--to the point where it will cause technology to fail if the user has less than complete confidence in it. the SF doesn't really come into these books much, although it is a world colonised by Terrans. it's exciting supernatural fantasy, and although there is a Conflict Of Good And Evil, it's approached from a somewhat different perspective.

the novels of the Jaran intertwine the SF more, and are completely devoid of magic. however, they are great noble savage/historical adventure books, especially the first two. after that, the SF becomes an increasingly large part of the plot. otherwise, the action centres around a woman from a technologically advanced society in voluntary exile on a low-tech planet. the leader of the nomads she falls in with is hoping to unite his scattered peoples and take over the world, Genghis Khan style.

and thinking of historical adventure, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Jack Whyte's A Dream Of Eagles series. it takes the Arthurian legends to a whole new level of detail.
 
 
azdahak
20:22 / 04.06.04
Wow another Jack Whyte fan! Salve Sodales! I like the early books best where the roman influence is greatest.

Before I go any further I'll say something about my views on modern fantasy. There are some authors who has a vision and good writing skills. There's unfortunately very few of these authors in fantasy, but among the shite there's some gold.

The following authors is among the gold:
George RR Martin: "A song of Ice and Fire": A tale of noble families, civil wars and intrigue that makes Machiavelli look a sissy.
Steven Erikson: "Malazan: Book of the fallen": Epic in every sense of the word. Ancient races and a flegdling empire is battling to save the world or destroy it.
Ursula K. Le Guin: "The Earthsea trilogy": Now a quintet and a classic if somewhat old. I'm ashamed to say I've not read her SF.
China Mieville: "Perdido Street Station": Not staple fantasy at all. Decadent dark and magickal "steampunk".

"Silver" or still very good:
Robin Hobb: "The Farseer Trilogy": About a royal bastard's fight for respect and survival. "The liveship traders" is an independant series in the same world and "The Tawny Man Trilogy" continues the story of the Fitz from "The Farseer".
Katharine Kerr: "The Deverry Series": The first series is good the rest I found utterly boring.
Tad Williams: "Memory Sorrow and Thorn" and "The War of the Flowers": The first one is a great trilogy and although he uses some of the more staple themes of fantasy, he uses it in a different way. The second is an old school fantasy/faerie tale that's been modernized. Tad Williams is one of the few fantasy authors that can provoke a big lump in my throat.

These are just a few that I remember on the spot and I'll probably'll be appaled of what I've forgotten, but I'll have to remedy that later.
Haakon Olav Thunestvedt
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:20 / 06.06.04
Salve Sodales!

*polite cough*

Sodal*is*.
 
 
azdahak
07:19 / 07.06.04
Of course!(Smacks head) nice to see a fellow Ars plaeyer here though. (You wouldn't know that if you weren't would you?)
HOT
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
19:39 / 26.02.06
some good, some bad, some ugly -

I've read tons of this stuff over the years, wading through David Eddings & Piers Anthony to get to something halfway decent.

the best, by far, greater than any of the titles or authors listed (although, I particularly like Gemmel & Kay) - write it down, you'll be glad you did:

Steven Erikson
currrently, he's got 5 of the 10 Malazan Book of the Fallen series published, the 6th is due April 25th (in Canada anyway).

Huge fiction. This stuff is masterful and deeply complex. No spoon feeding here, this world is a feast for the mind. Upon rereading two of the books, it makes me want to return for more.

you like Elric?
How about Anomander Rake, Draconian Soletaken, and wielder of the sword Dragnipur. It sucks the life out of its victims as smoky black chains whip out of the blade, ensnaring the victim, and dragging them into itself. Within, the captive souls are chained to a giant wagon, which they must drag ever-forward - and something pursues.

that's one character's sword. not to mention his race (tiste andii) their mythology (children of Mother Dark), and his personal history.

Stevenson manages to evoke a world as complex as ours, with a depth of continuity that I've never encountered elsewhere. The man can tell a story, he can weave a myth, and he can envision a world.

it's dark - genocidal visions of empire - with humorous bits (reminiscent of Pratchet, but more episodic).

If you've never read any of his work, and are ready to give up on fantasy, pick it up. Everyone I've introduced this to has been enraptured by it - and they claim that Gemmel, Kay and Jordan pale by comparison.

Gardens of the Moon is the first book.

I've attempted to introduce this series to people in this forum, and have had very few responses.

I hope someone reading this decides to read it. It's the best fantasy I've ever read, and is better pieced together than most fiction.

--not jack
 
 
Digital Hermes
14:40 / 27.02.06
Everyone I've introduced this to has been enraptured by it - and they claim that Gemmel, Kay and Jordan pale by comparison.

Normally, I wouldn't put Kay amoung the other two, with his works usually being more accurate to the era being imitated. Kay is more literary-dramatic, rather than pulpy-action, which I would ascribe to Jordan, at least. (Along with an overabundance of detail, to the point where it chokes the plot.)
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
15:22 / 27.02.06
I found Kay at least readible - well after reading Erikson, I have to admit, the Lions of Al-Rassan became a simplistic little ditty.

however, their styles do have some similarity. Kay evokes the pseudo-historical, whereas Erikson invents his own. The Malazan empire is like none of this world, however, it is still an empire, and bears famililiar similarities.

My favourite from Gemmel is Echoes of the Great Song.

--not jack
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
06:01 / 03.03.06
Of Erikson's Malazan Books of the Fallen, Memories of Ice is by far the most dynamic and epic. It could probably be read out of order if you really need convincing - after which I'd recommend starting at the beginning.

anyone?

--not jack
 
 
Mistoffelees
23:11 / 13.08.06
Recently, I had a craving for fresh fantasy/SciFi novels. I researched for a while on the www and these novels popped up as crème de la crème.

So I´ve read the first book of this list and liked it. Have you read any of the other novels and can recommend me the next read, please?

Perdido Street Station by China Mieville
Altered Carbon (Gollancz SF S.) by Richard Morgan
Pashazade: The First Arabesk by Jon Courtenay Grimwood
Consider Phlebas by Iain M. Banks
A Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire, Book 1) by George R.R. Martin
The Reality Dysfunction (Night's Dawn Trilogy) by Peter F. Hamilton
Hyperion (Hyperion Cantos) by Dan Simmons
The Year of Our War (Gollancz SF S.) by Steph Swainston
No Present Like Time (Gollancz SF S.) by Steph Swainston
Otherland: City of Golden Shadow Bk. 1 (Otherland) by Tad Williams
Lavondyss by Robert Holdstock
Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds
Kiln People by David Brin
Dying Inside by Robert Silverberg
The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin
Ringworld by Larry Niven
Gardens of the Moon "Malazan Book of the Fallen" series by Steven Erikson
 
 
The Falcon
01:11 / 14.08.06
I've only read the top two, Mist, but I thoroughly enjoyed Altered Carbon; filmic action, fairly politicised stuff. Total hard bastard lead, that you just know is named after Rorschach off Watchmen.

'S part of a trilogy, which falls off a bit with Broken Angels and then gets back on with, uhm, the last one. Woken Furies?
 
 
The Falcon
01:14 / 14.08.06
I lie! I also really dug Consider Phlebas, when I was 16, so much so I did my Higher English reading essay (RPR) on it. It's got that skein of respectability that I demand of my sf, given it's named after a line from The Wasteland (as is Look to Windward; you'd think he'd only read one poem) and there's some brilliant space combat, as I recall. Pretty emotional stuff.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
02:06 / 14.08.06
Mist- Lavondyss by Robert Holdstock, from your list, is absolutely fucking gorgeous, but it's the sequel to another book, Mythago Wood, which I'd recommend you read first.
 
 
ghadis
05:04 / 14.08.06
Currently reading Steven Eriksons 'Gardens of the Moon' which i'm enjoying a great deal. Huge cast of interesting well written characters in a vast world. Not Jack has written much about these books up thread so i won't go on.

Consider Phlebas and Hyperion also get my thumbs up.

I started Steph Swainstons 'The Year of our War' but got distracted halfway through and put it down for something else. I may go back to it as it was ok. Plus it had armies of giant insects whic is always a good thing.
 
  

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