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DC Frontier 2?

 
  

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quinine92001
19:54 / 11.02.04
Has anyone picked it up yet? Who is all in it? Is it any good?
 
 
THX-1138
22:58 / 11.02.04
I picked up the first ish. Ultimately it seemed like a coming of age story about Hal Jordan. I liked it enough to probably get #2 if it isn't sold out. it began with a story about The Losers and their fate, then something about the death of Hourman having to do with refusing to register with the Cogressional Committee on Un-American Activities.
Apparently The bat-man and Superman had a big fight about The Bat-Man also refusing to register or retire.
 
 
Simplist
22:59 / 11.02.04
I was going to, but this review (scroll down to "Meanwhile...") gave me second, third and fourth thoughts.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
01:56 / 12.02.04
Wow, is he ever wrong. Sorry, but if you're looking for a realistic portrayal of warfare, put the book down when you get to THE DINOSAUR, well before the somehow more bizarre soldier who is not comfortable with killing.

New Frontier was fantastic from pretty much every angle. It's Darwyn's best work, it's really well written, impeccably designed. Total package.

Also, mandatory points for all the H.E.A.T. members it'll inevitably piss off.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:32 / 12.02.04
I loved the first issue of this. Well worth the cash. Issue 2 doesn't come out for another week or two, I think. I definitely know that only #1 is out thus far.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:22 / 20.02.04
Second issue is out - the writing is a little off at times, and a drunken Wonder Woman who's having a party because she just gave a bunch of victimized Korean women a chance to blow away their agressors with machine guns is a little bizarre. The lower half of Flash's head looked sort of smooshed in the Flash scenes. This is still pretty good, but I expected slightly more after the 1st issue. It's clear that Cooke, while a great artist, is still more new than not at the scripting game.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:29 / 29.07.04
DC: New Frontier #5 is out, and I really dug it! Wasn't sure if it needed a new thread. This one had a lot of nice moments... great depiction of Hal getting the ring, and Cooke really nails the fun, heady, childhood wish/fantasy fulfillment feeling of suddenly being able to fly and have this magic ring that can do, well, anything. Anyone else check this out?
 
 
Axolotl
14:44 / 29.07.04
I've not got #5 as my comic shop, though excellent in all respects, only gets its deliveries on Friday. However I've got the rest of the book and I am loving it. This is mostly due to Cooke's style, which imho is just fantastic. I'm not a big DC fan generally, so I'm sure I'm missing some of the references, and I'd agree with you about there being weaknesses in the writing, but overall I'm really enjoying this series.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
14:44 / 29.07.04
This was a great issue of a continuously fantastic book.

Fuckin' Blackhawk! AWESOME.
 
 
BrianFitzgerald
19:46 / 07.10.04
So has anyone else here read #6? Great conclusion to a fun, fun series.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
20:11 / 07.10.04
Waitin' For the Trade.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:15 / 07.10.04
Saw this for the first time in the shops last week and it looks gorgeous. I will Wait for the Trade if it's recommended. There are surely only so many ways you can rejig DC characters in period style (Golden Age, Thrillkiller) but it looked really sweet.
 
 
THX-1138
00:33 / 08.10.04
I saw # 6 but passed on it. I am also going to wait for trade.
I noticed in Previews that DC is publishing an omnibus edition of the first three issues.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:45 / 08.10.04
I'd highly recommend this. The art's excellent, and quite apart from that, and without wishing to spoil it for anyone, the take on the Silver Age characters does seem, if not new exactly, then fairly inspired. Reimagining the Green Lantern as done by Jack Kerouac - Hal Jordan fears nothing, so he's in effect Neal Cassady - made sense, personally, of a figure that's otherwise seemed a bit wooden. Or, y'know, yellow.

To a certain extent it's about American optimism, I'm guessing, plus a time when America could still take itself seriously, without feeling uncomfortable, and I have to admit that during the closing speech of this series, ( which I don't want to ruin, so I'm being oblique, ) my eyes were a bit damp. Unimagible, really, to picture that kind of character using that type of language these days, anyway.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:53 / 08.10.04
I've rather destroyed my own argument here, but what I meant to say was Unimaginable.

On my way out, I'll get my coat
 
 
FinderWolf
13:40 / 08.10.04
I thought this series was pretty cool and really entertaining & stylish. Sure, it wasn't always a 10 out of 10, but it was really great fun and at times, heartwarmingly nostalgiac. Well drawn, beautifully designed & colored. I'd recommend it.
 
 
Benny the Ball
02:31 / 30.10.04
picked up 1-5 recently, really enjoying it - lovely art work, and the Martian Manhunter looks great. Cooke has written most of the characters very well, and also liked the link of Abin Sar's crash with the test rocket explosion... going to try and pick up 6 some point soon.
 
 
matsya
08:41 / 16.03.05
okay, i'm trying to get this straight - how many issues was this series? Six in the first volume, then what? was there a second series?

hm.

m.
 
 
Benny the Ball
08:48 / 16.03.05
I only know of 1-6 of the Cooke issues. With a trade either due or out now.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
13:11 / 16.03.05
There's a first volume out now. I bought it Christmas Eve with the intention of settling down and reading it over the next few days. When I realised it was only the first volume I put it on one side to gather dust until the next one is out.
 
 
_Boboss
13:18 / 16.03.05
which is end of june according to amazon.
 
 
matsya
23:02 / 16.03.05
so what's in the first trade? They're big comics, yeah? 68pp each or some such. Vol one is issues 1-3 and vol two is 4-6, is that the deal?

m.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
11:45 / 17.03.05
According to the latest Comics International Volume 2 is out on the 6th April.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:02 / 07.11.05
Picked up the first volume of this today, before work. On the strength of Cooke's Catwoman action and his Solo gig. Some vague, uncollected thoughts with regard to my first reading:

- I like the use of J'onn J'onzz, although on occasion the way he's written felt a bit off; the summary of what he did once Erdel was dead seemed a bit too comfortable for someone who's just accidentally been teleported to another planet. Even an etxra line, or a couple panels showing J'onn reading Erdel's mind more explicitly (that's why I favour the summarized line rather than actually extending the scene) would have made it flow a bit smoother. Also, something jarred about J'onn's description of Earth cartoons, when he's disguised as Bugs Bunny; "fantastic creatures" seemed a bit off, even though it was clearly meant as verbal irony on Cooke's part. It felt like an odd judgement to make (not a moral one, but you know what I mean) given that he again hadn't been exposed to much culture or world reality at that point. Cooke made a strong use of the Jones persona as a "movie detective" (in a very real way) and I enjoyed his interplay with Slam Bradley, the way Slam couldn't quite explain Jones's knack for deciphering cases without any real information. I loved the scene of J'onn at the movies.

- The battle of Batman and Superman confused me, but I need to reread that section - it was just a bit of confusion about the New Frontier's timeline, whether or not Batman was relatively new in comparison to the JSA and Superman, whether or not Superman had been in the JSA with Wonder Woman. There was a similar problem with the Challengers of the Unknown being mentioned before their apparent creation, although that could have been the narrative jumping around in time and I missed some cues.

- I really do enjoy Cooke's design sense and storytelling, but with the huge cast running around in regular clothes, I got frustrated with how similar most of the women looked to each other and most of the men looked to each other. The women had some advantages, but in a sense that's more the fault of the comics at the time having a stereotypical set of superhero men body types and appearances. That'll probably clear itself up as usual on second read, but I swear Ollie Queen looks too much like Barry.

- Barry Allen late in the game steals the show for me, even with the Selina Kyle/Ted Grant hijinks. His relationship with Iris is perfectly painted and some lines are delivered with such effect, given their eventual fates - the shift of him from Central City to the desert was a wonderful expression of superspeed, especially with his fist coming up to Captain Cold's face as Cold shouts in slo-mo for him to stop.

- It was nice to see Hal Jordan with some actual personality, even if I liked Barry better.

More thoughts later...
 
 
LDones
02:08 / 07.11.05
Cooke's characterization of Hal Jordan is the most interesting I've read. Great Right-Stuff-era encapsulation of American spirit, flaws and all.

At first read I was confused as to the differences between the Challengers, Team Zero, and the SUicide Squad, but it settled down for me once I hit near the end, and a reread clarified it further. The differentiation between incidental characters is the hardest part of the read - it feels overwhelming at times, particularly when the exposition given is generally so sparse, but it lends that magic of being dropped into something really grand and big, a history that needs figuring out as you read.

The big picture becomes much more clear once you get into the last third of the story. One of the things I admire most about New Frontier as a work is that it's a story of both American and DC-comics history from the end of the Korean War to Kennedy being elected president. The parallels and subtleties are powerful, and Cooke's sweeping view of the fictional American emotional landscape of America at the time (nevermind his Canadian background) is interesting.

Volume 2 makes the various subplots clearer as far as what's important and what's just for comment.

I enjoy the John Henry bits as a comment on race-relations in America at the time and the lack of black faces in superhero history. It's handled respectfully, and with a relatively light touch. I enjoy that J'onn J'onnz keeps clippings about the Civil Rights movement all over his office wall, a subject of outsider relations that he has a vested interest in, even as he pretends to be white.

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts when you finish it up. New Frontier remains one of my favorite comic books, and something I loan out to non-superhero-comics readers long before I'd tell them to touch something like Watchmen.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:51 / 07.11.05
I'll keep offering up bits, and I'm hoping to get Book 2 relatively soon. Just because I have an awful completist streak in me.

J'onn is interesting because of the civil rights connection, but also struck me as the "queer" character of the story - watching the film and laughing at how ridiculous people's assumptions about Mars were struck me as similar to being queer and interpreting the queer subtexts of movies, or looking for them - the "straight" audience hushing him because they don't "get it." It's a simplistic reading of his character, but I like how J'onn effectively mirrors and shifts through different outsider lenses depending on the context. Odd; I wonder how different The Outsiders could have been if it had been J'onn J'onzz leading them instead of Batman?

Wonder Woman's also worthy of note so far, as she's the focal female character beside Lois; her willingness to point of the fallacies of American foreign policy seem so dissonant with taking the loyalty pledge in the first place. I'm curious to see where her story goes in the next volume - she's presented with such vigour and tenacity, with a sense of morality which conflicts with Superman's but also leads her to try and make a stand for something better - only to get shut down by the government. She may be powerful, but she's just one of their women.

Hourman's chapter being called "State of the Union Suit" was aces. Utterly aces.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
14:12 / 07.11.05
Just an aside but the other day I saw this little kid with his mom at the library taking out book one of New frontier.

The mom must have been thinking 'well look at the bright colors and it's got the Justice League' rather than the examination of the United States of the late 50's/early 60's.

Wonder what he'll make of it?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:53 / 07.11.05
Hopefully, it'll blow his mind.

Thoughts on Book 2, again, rough and tumble. All shuffled together as I start my second read-through:

1. Adam Strange as paranoid schizophrenic. I can see this being an inspiration for Adam's more recent depiction (at the beginning of Planet Heist, but how often has this angle been thrown on him? Other than the Journey into Mystery Julie Schartwz comic.

2. An explanation of Batman & Superman's fight, finally, along with Batman's changed costume and new sidekick. I like his rationale for things, the hint that his modus operandi has changed (there needs to be more light, essentially), and I like Batman's interactions with Superman, the obvious friendship and underlying machinations they've put in motion - to be spurred on, further, by Wonder Woman's words to Superman. I still think, of the three of them, Diana is presented as the most complex and honest of the three of them, but ultimately their part in this is as Superman's Parents, pushing him past their interpersonal conflict and driving him to be less a tool and more an active individual. Shedding the Bishop Six alias to become someone...more.

3. J'onn and Hal are very clearly the stars of the show - they have the most well-developed character arcs. I thought that the way Hal reveals himself in the end was a bit complicated, but I did like that he resisted using the ring as anything more than an aid for his flying saucer thingee. J'onn's interactions with Faraday held a lot of strength in them, and I love the moment where he breaks through Faraday's illusions about himself and the Alien Other.

4. June Robbins and the Challengers! June's presented as very playful, which I enjoyed a lot; she clearly had the brains and the wit, and a unique appearence what with all the saucy brunettes running around (Lois, and Carol).

5. The absence of the JSA struck me - this is as much about their absence as it is about the presence of the Silver Age heroes; we're told as much when the mystical types muse on the fact that the JSA just hung up their masks and walked away. They've forfeited the right to intervene. That scene with the mystical heroes - Billy Batson, Doc Fate, Spectre, Zatanna, and the Phantom Stranger - was a lot of fun but ultimately felt like the obligatory "why don't the big guns help?" moments. I liked it, but only because it was a much better version of the similar scene in Alan Davis' JLA: The Nail #3, where the Spectre's the one intervening.

6. Barry Allen's less prevalent in this volume but he still steals the show for me - Cooke's portrayal of his superspeed and the way he writes Barry feels smart, beautiful, and cunning. He's allowed to be hotheaded in a way that isn't traditionally associated with him, but we're given motivation - Iris. She's very much a background player in this, obviously, but she's written with a lot of punch and heart. I would love to read a series by Cooke focused on Lois, Iris, Carol, maybe Steve Trevor, though - without the heroes in front of them. In Volume 1, the page where Flash goes out to look all over Vegas for Captain Cold's cryogenic bombs is par excellence with regard to how Cooke shows the Flash. An earlier double page spread with Barry running across country is similarly brilliant, and I love the narration about vibrating his molecules at that speed to avoid bugs and telephone poles and things.

7. The resulting end battle, as mentioned upthread, degenerates quickly and it was hard to follow on first reading. It felt like it was needlessly complicated, just to fit everyone in. I assume Nathaniel Adam will pop up again sometime in this world's future. How Hal reveals himself as the new Green Lantern - well. It was a bit awkward, but I like that it gave him more of a reason to come out of the skintights closet, into the open. I was a bit frustrated that nobody seemed to remember Alan Scott as GL, other than a voiceover bubble referring to him by secret ID - did no one remember him?

8. The John Henry sequences. I think the best one was the scene with him hiding in the shed, and the little girl finds him, and you have this long pause where you think, maybe there's going to be some sort of saccahrine moment, but it turns to ash in your mouth. Right up against the news program about John Henry. Interesting dichotomy, I like that it showed the utter despair and injustice but gave some hope for the developing Silver Age.

9. Aquaman, the Blackhawks - they all seemed a bit thrown in at the last minute, ditto the Sea Devils. Nice to see them included, but was it necessary?

10. I really don't think I could have dealt with Hal calling Ace Morgan his "Big Daddy" much more.
 
 
The Falcon
13:04 / 08.11.05
"It also shows him mourning for a dead male friend in the wreck, Jimmy. Right from the start, Green Lantern is involved in male bonding." - Alan Scott origin

This origin is quite different; iirc, Hal is yet to acquire an a.e. in NF.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:28 / 08.11.05
Thanks for the link, Duncan. I quite like those commentaries on Alan Scott. He remains my favourite Golden Age character.

Hal doesn't have an a.e. at that point in the narrative, you're right, but his modus operandi is similar enough to Alan Scott's that more than one person should have picked up on the similarity and name-dropped Green Lantern over it. I could understand if another ten years had lapsed between the abandoning of the JSA and the events of New Frontier, but I don't think that quite enough time has passed.

I like Hal acting as a transition between the "paramilitary sci-fi adventure" comics as represented by the Challengers and the Losers, with him primarily a plain old test pilot and daredevil for most of the narrative, to the new wave of superhero comics - the fact that he limits his ring to flying his craft for a good chunk of the final battle cinched it for me, he was cocooning but not ready to emerge with butterfly wings and skintights.

It's interesting that while the Big Three are all important to the story, and each have their own arcs, the story itself is more concerned with the Next Big Three of J'onn, Barry, and Hal. Hal transitions between adventurer and super-hero, J'onn transitions between straight science fiction and super-hero, and Barry highlights Jay Garrick's inspiration and transitions between Golden and Silver Ages.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:59 / 08.11.05
>> 9. Aquaman, the Blackhawks - they all seemed a bit thrown in at the last minute, ditto the Sea Devils. Nice to see them included, but was it necessary?

I did like that moment where Aquaman makes a huge dramatic entrance in his Atlantean warship and drops off Supes, who the characters all thought was dead at that point, and says "This one has been asking for someone called 'Lois.'
 
 
LDones
17:18 / 08.11.05
I quite enjoyed that. Hal goes into the Centre in the golden age of hard-bitten paramilitary comics, confronting dinosaurs and horrors - then things get all psychedelic in there and he emerges on the other side in tights and green light, the Silver Age beginning.

Little character touches are very sharp. I enjoy that the seeds of Batman's later transformation are planted way back in that church, when the child won't let him touch him. I adore his first meeting with J'onn. Adam Strange and Ray Palmer remarking "Hey, isn't that the Illinois Flash?". Slam Bradley in a bar after hearing about John Henry being murdered saying "Holy Moly, that is pure rugged."

THe entire closing sequence with the narration of Kennedy's 'New Frontier' speech ties the piece together beautifully. Lex Luthor's hungry businessman looming, Superman showing J'onn where he landed on earth. The small moments with a young John Henry Irons walking away from a Whites Only drinking fountain, or reading comic books at the dead John Henry's gravesite.

Something that Cooke mentions in his Afterword that I feel really rings true is that to his mind superheroes are child-like, in the very best sense of the word. When I read it I can imagine the 8-year old boy pretending to be Superman in this situation, the 11-year-old girl as Wonder Woman, towering over Superman and saying "There's the door, Space-man.". That great illusion of absolute commitment to moral rectitude, superheroes as an ideal boiled right down one of many essences.

Cooke's portrayal of Wonder Woman is the best I've read or seen since the Golden Age comics, Cambodian women and invisible prop-planes with cockpits full of blood. Sapphic lifestyle clear and without vulgarity. I like a Wonder Woman taller than Superman, I love the shot of her lifting Barry Allen off the ground in celebration at the end. That moment where Jimmy Olsen's about to be eaten by a dinosaur-thing and tries to snap a picture of the last moment he'll ever see, only to catch Wonder Woman smashing T-Rex face with a steel girder and shouting "Hola!" just gets me grinning.

And while I'm excited to hear Cooke's going to be doing a regular Spirit book, I can't help but feel that it's a small crime that he's not writing the ongoing adventures of Wonder Woman.

One of my favorite superhero stories.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:37 / 09.11.05
LDones: Little character touches are very sharp. I enjoy that the seeds of Batman's later transformation are planted way back in that church, when the child won't let him touch him. I adore his first meeting with J'onn. Adam Strange and Ray Palmer remarking "Hey, isn't that the Illinois Flash?". Slam Bradley in a bar after hearing about John Henry being murdered saying "Holy Moly, that is pure rugged."

The friendship between J'onn and Slam was one of the things that stuck out and held my attention so well in New Frontier, partly because it managed to give Slam more depth - Slam's become one of my favourites in the last little while, but in NF I don't like him, but on a personal rather than character level - his interactions with J'onn are quite fascinating and I think in the end it is that relationship that exemplifies many of the book's themes - basically, J'onn has never been honest with Slam, and Slam will forever regard J'onn with a veneer of condescension. John Jones "doesn't belong" - he's a little bit off and strange and Slam can't quite put his finger on it. I would have liked to seem more of their friendship with Jim Gordon, but there wasn't really room for that.

And yes, Wonder Woman, Cooke would do a brilliant Wonder Woman series. While I don't necessarily agree wholeheartedly with what she did with the Cambodian women from a pacifistic angle, I can understand where she and they were coming from - this Diana is all about choice, she's all about the freedom to determine your own destiny. Which is sort of an odd take on her considering her Greek Mythological background. Giving those women the choice to do decide what they had to do was one step on the way for Superman, having to realize that choice is the freedom they need to fight for, but - ultimately, when taken with their talk over Paradise Island - that guidance is also important. Diana is such the Good Mother of the piece.
 
 
superdonkey
20:10 / 13.11.05
there's to be New Frontier action figures:


found on the Drawing Board
 
 
LDones
03:58 / 14.11.05
Bah, no Slam Bradley? No King Faraday? My own abstract and singular tastes not specifically catered to by a ginormous corporate entity? RAR!
 
  

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