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Twin Peaks anyone...? (Spoilers)

 
  

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drive baby, drive
20:01 / 31.01.04
Have just watched the box set of the first season of Twin Peaks and the David Lynch movie, "Fire Walk With Me" today. Haven't seen them for a long time - does anyone remember this fantastic series?
 
 
Keith
21:46 / 31.01.04
No... you've got me there. Twin Peaks, you say? No... doesn't ring any bells...
 
 
Keith
21:51 / 31.01.04
OF COURSE I REMEMBER IT! When it went out on BBC2, I was at Art School, just finishing up my final year. We used to sit and discuss the previous nights ep at extraordinary lengths, about 8 of us, boys and girls. The final ep of series 1 was on the night our dissertations had to be finished, and we ALL stayed up and watched that, no matter what abysmal state our essays were in at the time. Extraordinary TV. Has there ever, EVER been a scarier creation than Killer Bob?
 
 
PatrickMM
03:09 / 01.02.04
I first watched the pilot in June this year, and by July I had seen every episode of the series and Fire Walk With Me. I've since watched the show through two more times, in the process converting three people into TP addicts. I think TP is undoubtedly the best TV series of all time, and the last episode of the show is the best episode of any TV show ever.

And, the more I watch Fire Walk With Me, the more I recognize it as an absolutely amazing film. I've never seen another film that combines a relatively real world storyline, with the outre elements of the red room. The Bowie sequence, Laura's dream where she goes in to the painting, it's some of my favorite film images of all time. Plus, on an emotional level, it's just an incredibly powerful film.

Though, I prefer the series finale on the whole. The final red room sequence is awe-inspiring. Lynch turns a hall with curtains into the strangest place in the world. Laura screaming, Doppel-Cooper running up to the camera during the strobe light sequence, Sycamore Trees and "How's Annie?" Just phenomenal.
 
 
drive baby, drive
10:59 / 01.02.04
doh! sorry, I haven't seen the last 2 series yet! they are meant to be coming out on dvd this year some time. there were some spanish versions available on ebay but i would rather wait and get an english lanuage version. BOB is the scariest, most evil man ever... ever.
 
 
I rose like the phoenix
11:01 / 01.02.04
I believe we're talking about my favourite TV show ever...

I was too young to 'get it' the first time round but I've been hooked since Psi got me the Series 1 boxed set for me...

Scariest moment so far was in FWWM - the movie - when Julee Cruise is singing 'Questions in a world of blue' and it moved me beyond all belief!

I can't wait to see what the next series has to hold, roll on September!
 
 
drive baby, drive
11:06 / 01.02.04
for sure - but you will have to buy your own copy this time round! well... if you're good!
 
 
I rose like the phoenix
11:07 / 01.02.04
*looks upset*

I'll set BOB on you...
 
 
drive baby, drive
11:10 / 01.02.04
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
11:11 / 01.02.04
Look here instead.
 
 
Neville Barker
02:20 / 02.02.04
If you are into this check out the magazine (bi-monthly) Wrapped in Plastic if you have not already. Excellant and ridiculously thorough source for essays and discussions on Peaks and anything Lynch related. google search for the website and they probably have subscription info and back issues available.
Cheers
 
 
Yagg
03:14 / 02.02.04
Just rented a couple of tapes of TP episodes last week. Then proceeded to come down with the flu and about a 102 degree fever. I don't wish anyone to have to deal with a high fever, but if you ever have one, it's the ideal state of mind in which to lay around all day and watch Twin Peaks episodes!

My favorite moment when I first saw it and now: When The Log Lady takes Cooper and Truman to the Roadhouse. "There are owls in the Roadhouse" she tells them. Julee Cruise disappears from the stage and Cooper sees The Giant: "It is happening again!" he says. Meanwhile, "it" is happening most horribly, as "Bob" is mauling poor, sweet little Maddy...And Donna bursts into tears for no apparent reason.

Just gives me chills, man, chills.

Or what about the scene where Truman and Cooper visit Ronnette, just awakened from her coma? This girl has been beaten, raped, nearly killed, and has just regained consciousness. They go to question her about Bob, obviously not a pleasant thing to have to subject her to. But first, they have all manner of difficulties operating the stools they're trying to sit on in the hospital room. They have to get down and read the directions underneath before they can have a seat. They struggle with them like two of the Three Stooges. Right in this stock scene out of any number of crime dramas, Lynch throws in some straight-up slapstick.

Watching it this time, though, I understood well why the show couldn't possibly last on network TV. The bit where Coop is lying shot on his hotel room floor talking to the Old Waiter/The Giant is about 8 minutes of mostly silence punctuated with nonsense and/or riddles. I gotta figure that was just too much for John Q Viewer out there. I timed it. 8 minutes! Too weird or too good or both.
 
 
mkt
14:47 / 02.02.04
Going through a Twin Peaks revival myself at the moment. Almost too good to talk about. My favourite bits are the things I didn't really notice or remember from the first time I watched it (being but a child at the time) - eg, for some reason I love that when Audrey leaves Cooper a note she addresses it to "My Special Agent".
Just borrowed Season Two on video. These long winter nights were just made for this kind of thing.
 
 
DaveBCooper
10:52 / 05.02.04
Speaking of Audrey’s note to Coop, I’ve never been able to figure out how it made it from his table (don’t we see him put it next to the phone?) to where it’s subsequently found. Anyone ? A rather odd loophole in a show which tended to be tightly-written… oh, all right, I damn with faint praise, it’s my favourite series ever. Love it.

If you like FWWM, it’s worth – if you haven’t already – looking for the full script, which is posted at various places online, and features some scenes which add to the strangeness of Agent Jeffries’s appearance in the FBI building, and also features a couple of scenes which take place after the end of the final TV episode, suggesting things to come …

There’s an interesting reference to TP in Jerry Stahl’s book ‘Permanent Midnight’, where he talks about his short-lived involvement with the show (he’s co-credited on one episode in series two, if memory serves), and his feelings about co-creator Mark Frost. It’s only a couple of pages long, and I dunno if the bit made it into the film version of Stahl’s book.

Oh, and though it’s probably been mentioned elsewhere, I’ll cheerfully run the risk of suggesting that fans of TP could do much worse things with their time than to read Mark Frost’s novels ‘The List of Seven’, and ‘The Six Messiahs’ (both of which deal with stuff such as ‘dwellers on the threshold’ and Theosophy), and ‘Before I Wake’, a crime thriller he wrote under the name of (working from memory here, so apologies if I’m a bit off) Eric Bowman. Haven’t read his recent golf book yet, but the reviews from golf-folks seem to be positive… no doubt he admires the sport’s precision.
 
 
stephen_seagull
19:57 / 05.02.04
I watched 'The First Season Special Edition' DVD and 'Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me' for my Auteur Project on David Lynch at A-Level. Was might impressed with both. They were damn fine.

The series was both intense and hilarious, whilst the prequel was just damn odd. The weird sign-language person with orange hair!? (Did I remember that right?) The nightclub scene! I love David Lynch, or, I love his work, at least. Audacious. Interesting. Wonderful. Exciting. Erm... Well Good.

I haven't watched either of them for about a year though, so my memory's somewhat lacking. And I've only watched them both once through. Perhaps I should revisit them. Hmmm...
 
 
PatrickMM
20:38 / 05.02.04
Stephen Seagull, you really should try to track down the second season if you haven't seen it. While on the whole it's not as strong as the first, my two favorites episodes from the series are in it, and FWWM should make a bit more sense if you see what you missed.
 
 
DaveBCooper
08:37 / 06.02.04
PatrickMM, which is the other episode you favour ? I’m guessing (from your previous post) that the final episode is a favourite, but the other ..?

I know it’s pretty much Lynch-free, but I’ve always rather liked the episode where … hmm, don’t want to spoil… let’s say ‘the episode in the second series which starts with a slow-motion of Albert, Coop, Hawk and Harry walking’. I think it’s great the way so much comes together – plotlines both serious and silly alike, and the first time I saw it I was amazed at the way they DIDN’T save a few of the shocks by having an obvious cliffhanger or whatever.

Oh, what am I talking about? I love them all. Can’t think of a single episode that doesn’t feature something thoughtful or amusing, or both at the same time.
 
 
Professor Silly
18:27 / 08.02.04
Second season...the episode where Cooper "catches" Bob...this scene remains one of my favorites in the entire series. The acting simply blows me away everytime...as I see Bob leave and the realization set in the face of his poor, poor puppet. Seriously, this is one of the half dozen scenes in the series that shakes me to my core every single time I watch it.

Second season due out on DVD this year? That's great news--is it rumor or might someone direct me to some evidence of this (I'd hate to get my hopes up for nothing).
 
 
PatrickMM
18:39 / 08.02.04
PatrickMM, which is the other episode you favour ? I’m guessing (from your previous post) that the final episode is a favourite, but the other ..?

It is the finale, and my other favorite episode is the one where the killer is finally revealed, and Maddy...
The scene at the roadhouse in that episode, with Julee Cruise singing is just so sad, and beautiful, completely unique from anything else I've seen.

DaveBCooper, the episode you mentioned is another one that just completely overwhelms me. The entire sprinkler scene, and "Go to the light," it's phenomenal.

Second season due out on DVD this year? That's great news--is it rumor or might someone direct me to some evidence of this (I'd hate to get my hopes up for nothing).

If you're in Europe, then yes, season two is supposed to be out on DVD this year. Check out www.dugpa.com for more info.
 
 
I rose like the phoenix
20:17 / 08.02.04
I've heard Season 2 is out in September!!
 
 
DaveBCooper
09:55 / 09.02.04
Ah yes, the killer revealed episode is a corker – first time I saw it, I was watching with some friends, and when Bob’s face appeared in the mirror we all shouted ‘phuqqing hell!’ in unison.

The ‘into the light’ speech is great stuff, as you say – and Coop is quoting the Tibetan Book of the Dead, I later found out, with all the ‘naked spotless intellect’ stuff. Nice touch.
 
 
dreamdancer
15:31 / 09.02.04
When I the episode where Leland/Bob is dancing with Laura's cousin (forgot her name) before he murders her, when the picture always changes from showing Leland to showing Bob and the camera is spiralling around them, well, when I went to bed I dreamed I was possesed by Bob. The experience seemed quite real and it was definetelly one of the most wonderfully horible dreams I ever had, but I can't say I'd want to experience it again. Bob felt like this real evil thing, or at least the closest you get to "Evil" and I just wanted to give in and have no direct experiences of the bad thinks he would do. Somehow it got to much and I realised it was just a dream and awoke. The following day I was really disturbed and not good for anything.
Which brought/brings me to the question, if it is possible to describe Twin Peaks as a Hypersigil. It definetely changed the way I see the world. It took me a month after the series end to wholly understand it. Or at least to integrate it into my understanding of the world. (When I'm speaking of the series end I'm speaking of the episode the murder is solved, because that's when they ended Twin Peaks here in Germany.)
 
 
Earlier than I thought
19:58 / 10.02.04
Well, just answer me this...who the hell was Judy?
As in "We're not gonna talk about Judy, in fact I ain't gonna mention Judy at all" (apply accent where applicable).
I loved this series and was gutted when the projected Lynch PC game was cancelled in the mid 90s. 'Woodcutters From Fiery Ships", a game which apparently revolved around "a bungalow near the woods. Just behind it is another bungalow". The world was not ready.
 
 
Douglas76
20:13 / 10.02.04
Well, I'm not entirely sure who Judy was either, but right at the end of the film there's an ape face that floats up out of the darkness for about a second or so. Turn up the volume and it whispers 'Judy' at you, and that's damn near the creepiest thing I've ever seen...

The sound design is great on FWWM, and cinemas were supposed to turn the volume up when it showed.
 
 
PatrickMM
23:05 / 10.02.04
I heard about an interview with Robert Engels (co-writer of FWWM), in which he said that Judy was Josie's sister. However, I think that's really dumb, and almost certainly not what David had in mind. There was a question on DavidLynch.com, where David was asked who Judy was and he refused to answer it.

So, I guess the meaning of Judy really is up to you. And Douglas, I agree, that monkey at the end of the movie is completely creepy, and just another part of what makes the movie so great. The other shot that really gets me is the quick cut to Laura with the black and white makeup, in Harold Smith's place.

The more I watch Fire Walk With Me, the more I love it. The first time I watched, I was impatient during the opening half hour, and was a little disappointed that more people from the series in it. However, as time goes by, I appreciate more and more the way Lynch integrates the main story about Laura, references to the series, and the red room mythology into one satisfying film. Lynch called it his most "experimental film" and I'd agree, plus I'd also say that it's his best film. It's the only one to perfectly integrate bizarre narrative playing (as in Mulholland Drive/Lost Highway), with an amazing, emotionally involving story, and a main character who is more engaging than any in Lynch's other films.
 
 
uncle retrospective
12:12 / 11.02.04
So anyone know anything about season 2 on DVD?
I need to see it again!
 
 
DaveBCooper
14:42 / 11.02.04
Given Agent Jeffries’s somewhat freaked-out state, and the fact he’s been missing for several years, and that he’s been to ‘one of their meetings’ and says we live inside a dream, I’d always kind of assumed that he was someone who was looking into Black-Lodge-style stuff (Blue Rose cases, perhaps you might call them) early on. And I assumed that Judy was someone that he lost as a result of vanishing for years on end or following this quest. Whether the monkey’s him (…) saying her name plaintively, Judy herself, or something or someone else is entirely a dunno, though given the fact it’s at the end of the film, amongst so many other scenes of loss, I guess I kind of favour the former interpretation.
Mind you, the whole thing’s probably just a throwaway Judy Garland reference, as I understand David Lynch is a huge Wizard of Oz fan, so I’m probably just talking through my backside.

PatrickMM, do you think that image of Laura with the deathly-pale face is in any way connected with the way Earle looks as we see him swinging the spiderbag in front of Leo? I understand that the look of Kenneth Welsh there was supposedly some kind of joke on David Lynch being almost obsessive about dental hygiene (where the hell ARE Earle’s teeth?), but there’s more than a passing similarity between the way the two of them look, and I wonder if in any way it’s connected… especially given that the two of them almost share the same fate. Almost like a ‘white horse’ precursor, perhaps.

I like FWWM a lot, though it’s a hell of a gearchange from the tone of the TV series. Given that, and the fact that it’s pretty hard to fully appreciate if you haven’t seen the TV show, it may well have left both newcomers and established fans a bit confused/disappointed or similar. Apparently one of Alan Moore’s favourite films, which is interesting. Love the brief appearance from Annie Blackburne, one of those nice circular paradoxes : if Laura had done what Annie had told her to, then she wouldn’t have ended up in a situation where she would have been able to tell Laura what to write in her diary…

I gather Series 2’s out on DVD in the autumn, innit ? Groovy.
 
 
I rose like the phoenix
12:38 / 12.02.04
Series 2 definately hits the UK in September 2004... and I can't wait
 
 
Mike Modular
00:22 / 13.02.04
Re: Judy

Let's not forget that Major Briggs' first name is Garland...
 
 
PatrickMM
03:50 / 14.02.04
Given Agent Jeffries’s somewhat freaked-out state, and the fact he’s been missing for several years, and that he’s been to ‘one of their meetings’ and says we live inside a dream, I’d always kind of assumed that he was someone who was looking into Black-Lodge-style stuff (Blue Rose cases, perhaps you might call them) early on. And I assumed that Judy was someone that he lost as a result of vanishing for years on end or following this quest. Whether the monkey’s him (…) saying her name plaintively, Judy herself, or something or someone else is entirely a dunno, though given the fact it’s at the end of the film, amongst so many other scenes of loss, I guess I kind of favour the former interpretation.

Possibly. The place above the convinience store that Jefferies talks about was apparently the residence of Bob and Mike, according to Mike's speech from the European pilot or the dream in episode 2 ("We lived above a convenience store.") I'd suspect Judy was another lodge figure, possibly someone from Jefferies' past, who he sees again in the lodge, like Cooper sees Caroline.

PatrickMM, do you think that image of Laura with the deathly-pale face is in any way connected with the way Earle looks as we see him swinging the spiderbag in front of Leo? I understand that the look of Kenneth Welsh there was supposedly some kind of joke on David Lynch being almost obsessive about dental hygiene (where the hell ARE Earle’s teeth?), but there’s more than a passing similarity between the way the two of them look, and I wonder if in any way it’s connected… especially given that the two of them almost share the same fate. Almost like a ‘white horse’ precursor, perhaps.

I think there's a definite parallel. Earle put on the makeup before he was making his journey to the black lodge, and Laura sees herself like that when she is talking about Bob taking her in to the black lodge. Leland also has the makeup on at some point, which you can see on one of the banners here: http://www.dugpa.com/links.html

Unfortunately, I don't have my copy of FWWM on me, and I can't remember exactly when the Leland image occurred.

I like FWWM a lot, though it’s a hell of a gearchange from the tone of the TV series. Given that, and the fact that it’s pretty hard to fully appreciate if you haven’t seen the TV show, it may well have left both newcomers and established fans a bit confused/disappointed or similar. Apparently one of Alan Moore’s favourite films, which is interesting. Love the brief appearance from Annie Blackburne, one of those nice circular paradoxes : if Laura had done what Annie had told her to, then she wouldn’t have ended up in a situation where she would have been able to tell Laura what to write in her diary…

For me, it's that brief appearance of Annie in FWWM that makes the entire arc with her in season 2 worth it.

And I read that not only is Alan Moore a huge fan of the series, it's the only licensed comic he'd write if he got the chance. And in addition to that, he apparently has a "black lodge party room" in his basement, and I think a black lodge party with Alan Moore would officially be the coolest thing ever.
 
 
makingbombs
19:20 / 14.02.04
Hey Barbelith... spooky for this thread to appear. I'm actually giving a talk on Lynch and Twin Peaks here in a month or so, focusing on the idea of "mysteries" in the series, and the question - of course - "who killed Laura Palmer?" So my question to you learned people is... did you care? Did you turn off the series once that plot was resolved? Did you feel betrayed when it was said that Lynch had no interest in ever revealing who the killer was?

(Personally, I think the murder was more of a plot device to kick off a soap opera - something done many times before and since - and that it was probably a mistake to focus so heavily on it as a mystery show... I mean, the show-within-a-show was a melodrama parody "Invitation to Love", right?)

Oh, and FWWM is literally the only movie I've ever had to turn off halfway through because I was watching it on my own and night and it was just too... damn... scary. Brr.
 
 
PatrickMM
22:15 / 14.02.04
Hey Barbelith... spooky for this thread to appear. I'm actually giving a talk on Lynch and Twin Peaks here in a month or so, focusing on the idea of "mysteries" in the series, and the question - of course - "who killed Laura Palmer?" So my question to you learned people is... did you care? Did you turn off the series once that plot was resolved? Did you feel betrayed when it was said that Lynch had no interest in ever revealing who the killer was?

MakingBombs, where's here, where you're giving the talk?

In response to your query, I didn't watch the show until last year, and a couple of episodes in, I had the identity of the killer spoiled (actually because I was liking the show so much, I read a thread on it here, where someone mentioned it was Bob in a Leland suit who killed Laura). While that plot was probably my main interest, I was interested in a lot of other stuff that was happening on the show as well, so once it was resolved I kept watching. And, while it was no where near as strong as a show as it was before, the last episode makes it worth it.

As for Lynch saying he never wanted to solve the murder, I find this a bit off. The reason for this is that he made an entire film exclusively about how the murder was done, and it was something that was clearly close to him.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
23:04 / 14.02.04
I once watched all of Twin Peaks (every episode, the pilot and FWWM) in one sitting. You don't walk away from something like that the same person, I can tell you. Brrrr.

I think there's a definite parallel. Earle put on the makeup before he was making his journey to the black lodge, and Laura sees herself like that when she is talking about Bob taking her in to the black lodge. Leland also has the makeup on at some point

Yeah, I think the makeup does seem to represent someone who dwells in the black lodge or is some kind of black lodge magician like Earle. I like that idea, you could probably construct a whole magical system based on the Twin Peaks mythos. I wonder how much of this stuff was being brought to Twin Peaks by Mark Frost rather than Lynch. Frost definitely seems to have occult leanings judging by the stuff in his novels. Although having said that, I think there's parallels between the makeup wearers in Twin Peaks and the creepy Spirit guy in Lost Highway, I've always thought of him as another Black Lodge type. They all seem to represent the dark aspects of the human psyche made flesh. Bob functions as an externalisation of Leyland's incestuous violent tendencies, and the weird creepy guy in Lost Highway is like an externalisation of the Bill Pullman character's jealousy that leads him to murder his wife, and his supressed guilt over that murder. Which, I suppose is the kind of territory that the concept of 'the Black Lodge' traditionally represents.
 
 
Catjerome
13:21 / 15.02.04
Reading this thread while sitting in my apartment alone late at night is giving me the willies.

One of my favorite aspects of Twin Peaks is how goddamned scary it can be (okay, favorite aspect unless I'm alone in my apartment at night and keep looking over my shoulder to make sure no one's there).

I first watched it when I was 12 and was totally freaked out by "it's happening again", Bob appearing in the mirror, Ronette's flashback to the traincar, etc. Watched it again with a friend almost ten years later and we were still huddling in fear when Maddy has the vision of Bob climbing over the couch. Agh!

Also, for some reason, that black monk-shaped silhouette in season 2 (when someone is talking about the dugpas) reaaaally gives me the shivers.

Yay, Twin Peaks! Now if only they'd release Season 2 on DVD in the U.S. ... I could finally have that TP marathon night I've been hoping for.

Also, book recommendation: Full of Secrets: Critical Approaches to Twin Peaks edited by David Lavery was really good reading.
 
 
PatrickMM
02:20 / 16.02.04
I once watched all of Twin Peaks (every episode, the pilot and FWWM) in one sitting. You don't walk away from something like that the same person, I can tell you. Brrrr.

Respect, that is hardcore. I'd imagine Evelyn Marsh and Window Earle were probably a bit tough to take 17 hours into the experience. But that sounds like something that may be worth doing one day.

Yeah, I think the makeup does seem to represent someone who dwells in the black lodge or is some kind of black lodge magician like Earle. I like that idea, you could probably construct a whole magical system based on the Twin Peaks mythos. I wonder how much of this stuff was being brought to Twin Peaks by Mark Frost rather than Lynch. Frost definitely seems to have occult leanings judging by the stuff in his novels.

The way I understand it, Mark Frost came up with the idea of the black lodge and white lodge, as well as the idea of confronting your shadow self, as seen in Hawk's speech around episode 18. However, it was Lynch who came up with the idea of making the lodge in to the red room from Cooper's dream. Online, you can find the original script for the last episode, which is pretty awful (Windom Earle dressed as a nun, I think that speaks for itself). I'd imagine that Frost's idea of the lodge was based on that hooded guy you see when Briggs is describing his abduction experience.

I think the creation of the lodge mythology demonstrates why Twin Peaks works so well. Frost set up a good basic foundation, and allowed Lynch to bring the concepts he was interested in working with to the table.
 
  

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