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Jenny Everywhere in "Soulless Mate"

 
  

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Tamayyurt
17:07 / 31.01.04
This story takes place right after "My Bloody Valentine" with beautiful art by Scott Simmons. Enjoy.

Soulless Mate.
 
 
cliffsteele
03:20 / 02.02.04

Wow! It's up already? I wasn't expecting it up until Wednesday.
Very cool. Thanks for a wonderful story with alot of fun stuff to draw, Alex!

--Scott Simmons
 
 
sleazenation
06:41 / 02.02.04
Some very nice artwork there particularly Shiva and his three-eye glasses - I can definitely see an element of Scott McCloud in there - more later...
 
 
FinderWolf
15:12 / 02.02.04
Another excellent Imp-penned tale. For my money, this story and Bacterial Lunaversity are significantly better and more sophisticated than the other Imp stories drawn by Andres Alloco (although the Pan story was my fave out of that bunch). It feels like these were written after the previous ones, even though I know Imp said the recent fantasy genre story was written right after seeing Return of the King (or was it The Two Towers, in which case my theory would prove true?). But this is top-notch - in both the art and story. I really like Simmons' Jenny. I look forward to seeing the next Imp Jenny story (I'm drawing one, but at the rate I'm going 3 pages done out of 8 in 6 months - it might be a while before mine goes up on the page!), and the next one drawn by Scott Simmons.

Is this is David from "My Bloody Valentine"? I think so, but I forget.

Great title, by the way.
 
 
Tamayyurt
17:53 / 02.02.04
Thanks for all the great words, guys.

Hunter- David is the nameless guy who asked Jenny out at the end of MBV. I named him David after Sax, who let me play with his great toys (like the plasmanomicon.) I think Sax has a cat named Shiva too.
 
 
grant
20:15 / 02.02.04
What a great comic. That's possibly the first one that feels like something I'd actively seek out if I *didn't* know the people who made it. It's polished, coherent, fun, and meaningful. And I think a lot of what makes it seem that way is that outstanding artwork -- perfect cartoon style illustration. That Jenny is a lot closer to the Jenny in my head than most of the ones I've seen.
 
 
Tamayyurt
16:40 / 03.02.04
grant- yeah, I was reading an old thread the other day where you mention that your Jenny would be a little wise or something like that. I can see why you'd like this story. Thanks.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:50 / 04.02.04
Do you mean "wise" as in "wisdom/smarts"? Or as in "wise-ass/sarcastic"? Just curious.
 
 
Tamayyurt
21:27 / 04.02.04
I took it to mean, she's been around the multiverse a few times and she's picked up a little practical wisdom.
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:37 / 04.02.04
EXCELLENT...

you've really found your own "voice" and it's showing more & more!!!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:14 / 05.02.04
Not wishing to piss on the bonfire but...

I liked many things about this comic. The art I found engaging, and some of the dialogue. It reminded me in parts of Martin Milar's "Lux and Alby sign on and save the Universe", which is largely a good thing..

But I just can't get interested in this HOTT! Jenny Everywhere, one with a superheroine's bod and a craving for cock. It just seems terribly obvious, and that before the naked and strapped down bit, or the merging with bloke to create a higher being bit, and then the "well, you may think this is interesting, but you should try geting your cock in me" finalé..

Gah. Would very much like to like this, but am struggling...
 
 
FinderWolf
14:21 / 06.02.04
She didn't seem "HOTT!!" to me - attractive, punky, yes, but Adam Hughes or Marc Silvestri objectified? No. But that's just my opinion.

Also, how does having a healthy sex drive mean she's always "hungry for cock", a phrase I believe you've used twice in your critiques of imp's Jenny stories? In Imp's Bacterial Lunaversity, she shows some lesbian tendencies, and in Imp's Pan story, she shows she could be a man who wants a man. And not all Imp's stories are sex-related, if that's the point you're getting at. Isn't sex drive and romantic pursuits a part of any character, just like it's a part of people's personalities in real life?
 
 
cliffsteele
01:38 / 07.02.04

As the artist for Soulless Mate, I can tell you that the way I draw Jenny is pretty much as I first saw the character in my head after reading the description on the website and Alex's original script.

I certainly didn't set out to give her superhero features, and she doesn't look like any typical female superheroes I know, including my own. I purposely gave Jenny normal features, with a bigger nose and bigger ears. I also kept a few girls I know in mind as visual reality references of normal (not supermodel) prettiness, but she doesn't really look like any of them in particular.

BTW, if you'd like to see the first image I drew of Jenny while reading Alex's script, as well as pencils of the first nine pages, please visit http://www.scottdmsimmons.com/jenny.html

Scott
 
 
cliffsteele
01:49 / 07.02.04

Thanks for all the kind words about the artwork, guys. This is really a cool board, and I hope to see more Jenny stories pop up by some of you on the main site as time goes on.

I'll soon start working on another Jenny story by Alex ("Writer of a 1,000 Jennys"), after I get settled back in Cincinnati. It should be done in March or April, shortly after I finish a graphic novel project.

In the meantime, I've started one of my own Jenny stories, and decided to go with a different technique for the first one. If all goes well, it should be done and ready for submission as early as the end of this month.

Scott
 
 
Tamayyurt
04:34 / 07.02.04
Hunter- And not all Imp's stories are sex-related, if that's the point you're getting at.

That's right. Makeshift Multiverse doesn't have a single cock! All the characters are female and 99% of them are Jenny.

Cliff- I certainly didn't set out to give her superhero features, and she doesn't look like any typical female superheroes I know, including my own.

Yeah, I have no idea what you're getting at with this "superheroine's bod" comment, Haus. I mean, she's cute but she's no Amazon Princess.... Hell, she's not even MaryJane Watson.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:55 / 07.02.04
Oh dear. I appear not to have explained myself well. Having said which - Hunterwolf, every time you make a guess about what I am "getting at", you get it wrong. Sometimes simply incorrect, sometimes Heimlich-requiringly off-beam. Are you seeing a theme developing? I don't recall saying that every impulsivelad story was about cock. I do think that the handling of sexuality in his stories is often pretty inept, and I would question whether you are correctly understanding what constitutes "sex drive and romantic pursuits" and what "characterisation of an idealised Jenny Sparks-lite sexual voracity", but there we go. One day I may even have a crack at explaining that being a man who wants a man and being a woman whose pursuit of cock is unhampered by a change in sex are somewhat different things. But anyway, let's look at this story, because I feel that possibly a better explanation of my thoughts might forestall some more fighting.

Yeah, I have no idea what you're getting at with this "superheroine's bod" comment, Haus. I mean, she's cute but she's no Amazon Princess.... Hell, she's not even MaryJane Watson.

I think the confusion here is that I'm using "superheroine's bod" to describe nwww.beerinthevot a particular level of attractiveness, but a set of formal processes used to create the artistic representation of the female body in superhero comics. To wit: sharply tapered lower body, protuberant hips, no actual waist to speak of, but hips rather joined to top of sharply tapered ribcage, entasis at the one-third point of the thighs. See this page for quite a good demo of this set of proportions. Note especially the waist-to-shoulders ratio.

This is such a learned set of responses that it's easy to assume that this is just how you draw women, and from there that this is just how women look. The implications of this in terms of Jenny Everywhere, who was originally portrayed as a little overweight, a "failing" that is edited out by the drawing techniques of the superheroine bod, has been discussed elsewhere. That was the implication, Hunterwolf, rather than that it was like Silvestri. I think you're thinking too far inside the box.

(Incidentally, she's wearing a skintight belted uniform with knee boots. Just saying.)

More generally, while a desire for cock is indeed a natural and healthy part of life, I think the problem for me here is that Jenny doesn't really do anything else. They turn up, they get put in a cage, David bemoans lack of sex, Jenny threatens to fuck him, they get sent to Hell, they are stripped naked and tied up, Jenny gives motivational speech, David turns into lightning and rescues Jenny, Jenny has a chat, Jenny tells David how much he will enjoy sexing her.

Obviously, there's more to it than that, and the other stuff is the stuff that reminds me of Martin Millar, which is, as has been established, a *good thing*. But the character of Jenny just doesn't *do* very much, as far as I can see, apart from the big Zen speech, which makes the frequency with which she advertises her sexual liberation, availablity and desire seem disproportionate...

I'm just sayin'.
 
 
cliffsteele
20:11 / 08.02.04

Haus,

The beautiful thing about Jenny Everywhere is that she is open to artistic interpretation. While I do like the overweight version seen in Nelson Evergreen's very nice artwork, my Jenny looks different. That's the beauty of the concept... I don't have to follow anyone else, and noone has to follow me.

And it's not how I see or prefer women, it's just simply how I see Jenny in my mind's eye. I'm guilty with the boots and belt... but it's how I saw her. I like big boots! :-) And I like drawing fun things, and so there I am with the designs of the arms of the shirt.

In Sax and Kit-Cat's nice story "The Death of Jenny Everywhere" we are reminded "We are as infinite in shape and style as we are in number..."

Thanks for taking the time to comment on the art, and I'm sorry you didn't like my SM version of Jenny that much. I hope you still continue to enjoy other aspects of my upcoming Jenny stories, with Alex and solo.

Scott
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:47 / 08.02.04
Thanks, Cliff. And I *did* like the art - there was lots of nice detail (the glasses with third-eye lens rocked). It is just that...

Well, that Jenny is indeed open to endless interpretations, but this interpretation is an interpretation that is applied to so many other characters who are formally required to have the superheroine bod that it feels like a waste of an interpretation to have it here. Certainly I understand that it is a way and a valid way to represent JE, but it's one that makes me feel a bit cold, because it seems that it is going to become rapidly the default setting, and it doesn't seem to me to be saying much about *Jenny*, except that she is a lady, and this is how ladies are drawn, and therefore she will be drawn like that. It's like leaving a Photoshop setting on "default" when changing it could lead to a more interesting result...

Anyway. I look forward to your future work.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:52 / 09.02.04
While I do like the overweight version seen in Nelson Evergreen's very nice artwork, my Jenny looks different.

cliff, I have a lot of time for your artwork, but you need to seriously open your eyes and reappraise your opinion of female body shape if you think Nelson Evergreen's depiction of Jenny Everywhere is as someone who is "overweight".

(Is it the parka that confuses people?)
 
 
Tamayyurt
11:09 / 09.02.04
I think it is the parka. Even though I never saw her as "overweight" until people started calling her the fat Jenny, which is not really fair.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:42 / 09.02.04
Who calls her that? Jesus. Comics fans. God knows what they'll make of her if Nelson goes through with his plan to add on a few extra pounds with each story.

The parka is interesting, because it's not like I deliberately sat down and thought "too many female comics characters wear tight or revealing clothes - my Jenny will strike a blow against this!" No, I thought "my Jenny should dress like someone really fucking cool - like the really cool people I know or see out and about". In its own way this could be called objectification, the female protagonist as fantasty figure... But I think it can be said that comics could do with more female protagonists who don't show their knickers (the only artistic decision I've ever really been annoyed by in a JE strip).

(Sorry, this is a little off-topic.)
 
 
FinderWolf
18:25 / 09.02.04
Haus - I hear ya. Sorry I misunderstood you - and you're right that I did indeed guess wrong about your intentions. I respectfully disagree with some of your points about the story, but hey, different viewpoints are what makes the world go 'round. Word.

I'm sort of torn on the whole 'this is just the way you draw females in comics' notion that you mention. Part of me agrees with you and part of me disagrees (on the female proportions issue), but I'm honestly not sure if the part of me that disagrees with you is sort of brainwashed by society to view comic book women that way. (I mean this seriously; I think your points on this topic have merit. Part of me wants to make a devil's advocate point about males in comics - they also sort of fall into a generic, reasonably fit male image as well, for the most part - but of course the whole male body image thing isn't the same as female body image because of society's double-standards.

But this will probably turn about to be another discussion of women's body image thing, which we've already kind of done in Jenny threads, and as much as I agree that women shouldn't all be drawn the same way, I wonder at the widsom of making Jenny the poster child for the opposite - that might not really be the point of the character, and I wonder at the hostility that thinner Jennys seem to provoke. I guess the answer is anyone can do their own Jenny, and so those who want to see different Jennys can write or drawn their own and contribute in that sense.
 
 
moriarty
19:11 / 09.02.04
From the Jenny Everywhere FAQ.

Otherwise, she dresses in comfortable clothes. She is average size and has a good body image.

There were two things that interested me about the project. One, to create a framework in which people, regardless of experience, could create comics different from what is currently out there. For the project, this was the reason that Jenny has kept her initial proportions which are different from what is usually seen in mainstream comic books. My first drawings of her were of that size because so many of my friends were not being represented in comics, among other forms of entertainment (I think it's unfair to pin sizeist behaviour on comic fans alone).

The other part of the project that intrigues me is the whole idea of survival of the fittest inherent in a public domain character. Obviously, these two interests of mine are conflicting more and more. I've received emails from people who would have created a Jenny story, but they read a few that they didn't like, and didn't want to contribute. Likewise, Nelson and others have expressed disappointment in the way she's been handled by other people and have considered quitting or trying harder to overshadow the versions they don't like. I prefer the latter option, of course.

When it comes down to it, that's all that can be done. That, and expressing your opinion in forums like these and hoping that such (hopefully intelligent) criticisms will allow for a change in future stories. I don't see what the big deal of critiquing someone's depiction of Jenny is. I can't say I'm horribly pleased with the majority of the stories so far myself. Honestly, there was a point when I was going to relinquish control of the main Jenny site and start a new one with much tighter requirements, such as artists actually observing real live women before they attempt to draw them.

OK, I'm starting to get angry again. I shouldn't be allowed anywhere near these threads.
 
 
Tamayyurt
19:29 / 09.02.04
Likewise, Nelson and others have expressed disappointment in the way she's been handled by other people and have considered quitting

I thought they had quit? Kidding. Ok, this is just stupid. It almost makes me want to stop and give these others a chance to either catch up or overshadow my work. But I won't.

I will slow down, though.

Personally, I'm dying to see the second part of Flyboy and Nelson's story and I'd LOVE to see Haus do something. If there's a lack of quality stories up on the site it's not my fault, I'm trying the best I can and maybe falling short but at least I'm trying.

Honestly, there was a point when I was going to relinquish control of the main Jenny site and start a new one with much tighter requirements, such as artists actually observing real live women before they attempt to draw them.

But the fact that there would be one mini story every two years stopped you, huh?
 
 
moriarty
20:11 / 09.02.04
My previous post was meant to be about Jenny in general, and shouldn't be seen as an attack on cliffsteele and impulsivelad's work specifically.

Hunterwolf, I'd appreciate it if you could explain what the depiction of the male form in comics has to do with the depiction of this one character. Also, since one of the main selling points of the character for me was to have her possess physical attributes that are not normally seen in comics, a view that you see as being wrong-headed, I wonder if you could enlighten me as to what the point actually is.

Impulsivelad, I've enjoyed a few of your stories and bits and pieces of others. It's obvious that you enjoy writing stories about Jenny, and I for one am glad that you participate, especially since you have a knack for finding new artistic talent to work with. However, you may be on to something when it comes to slowing down, not just because you're outnumbering other contributors, but because I seriously believe that there are flaws in some of your stories that could have been fixed if more time had been spent on the scripts.

So far as not tightening the screws on the requirements for inclusion on the website, that's because, as someone who has drawn a few comics in the past, I completely appreciate the work that goes into even those stories which I dislike. The fact that people are willing to spend many hours of their time on a character which will not make them any money or fame is remarkable to me. And it is obvious that in many of the stories there is a great amount of attention to details in backgrounds, inking, and even lettering on occasion. I just can't understand why some of these same people can't take a little extra time, thought and effort to create a depiction of a character that is rarely seen in comics. Here's this great opportunity to do something different and compelling, and yet it's often squandered or ignored entirely.

Unlike others, my expectations for the project are so low that if there were only one story every two years I'd still be deliriously happy. Hits to the site, media exposure, quantity of stories, all these things, while great, aren't something that I have a burning need for. I just want to see how an idea like this works out.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:32 / 09.02.04
I think Hunterwolf's point is that *men* aren't drawn realistically in comics, and so the fact that jenny is not drawn realistically should be seen as a formal requirement of the genre.

However, I'd probably add that this presupposes that the only way to draw male or female characters is as if they were in superhero comics, which is clearly not true, so yeah, I'm not sure it is entirely significant. Perhaps if Jenny were a superhero Jenny....I think that certainly, if we assume that the rubric is being adhered to, some people here have some very funny ideas of what consitutes "average size", and thus that might explain why the thin (also large-breasted, bubble-buttocked and wasp-waisted) Jennys may come in for criticism, but hey ho. It also presupposes that the distinction is "realistic" and "unrealistic", which I don't think is the case. It is "portraying Jenny as of average size, as she is described" and "portraying Jenny as a fantasy figure", which I think works in discussions of art and writing...

Impulsivelad - there's some advice on dealing with criticism here that you might want to take a look at. Right now I'm afraid you're getting a bit rude, given that all that is being asked of you is that you think a bit more about characterising Jenny, and maybe some artists think a bit more about portraing her.


But the fact that there would be one mini story every two years stopped you, huh?


Without wishing to be snippy, a website of "realistically proportioned" Jenny stories would contain Name's Not Down, Damn Fine Hostile Takeover 1 (and 2, when and if it appears), Mrs Zirma and the Death of Jenny Everywhere. Not too small a collection, and not too shabby a collection either.

(also, coincidentally, it would contain my Jenny-flavoured short story, currently offline due to server failure)
 
 
Tamayyurt
21:51 / 09.02.04
Without wishing to be snippy... a few posts too late, Haus.

I was not trying to be rude. I ment that even if you took every story not written by me (most of which came out ages ago) to another site it'd be another two years til you get another one. And obviously, quantity is not better than quality but stagnation sucks. I have accepted every bit of criticism with an open mind and have been trying to use what I've learned. You cannot tell me that this last story is on the same level as the first one. But whatever...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:04 / 09.02.04
So, all of those stories were written about two years ago, and none have been written since? How about "The Death of Jenny Everywhere"?

I'm sorry, but I really don't undersatnd why you're being so disparaging of the other writers and artists using JE here...
 
 
Jack Fear
22:16 / 09.02.04
Mm.

Not to turn this into "let's dump on impulsivelad," but I've got to say...

With every one of your Shifter stories, Imp, I have at some point found myself asking, "Why is this a Jenny Everywhere story?"

It is not necessary for a great story that it must grow out of the characters, but it doesn't hurt. But if the characters are generic--if you could pull Jenny out of the story and replace her with, say, Lara Croft, or Barbarella, or Octobriana--then, to me, the story's always goingto feel a little hollow.

I get the feeling--and this is just my impression, correct me if I'm wrong--that these stories are drawer=cleaning exercises. That is, that you've had the hooks/central plot notions for these stories kicking around for a while, but never got around to writing them because you got stuck on all the other stuff that goes into a story--world-creation, characters, theme.

But Jenny was a convenient vehicle for getting these stories told. And why not? She's a great time-saver: the work of establishing the character and her background is already done for you, and the dimension-hopping aspect means that you don't have to worry too much about context and plausibility.

(By the way, lest you think I'm only picking on you, note that "Mrs. Zirma" left me feeling the same way: the central conceit of the story left little room for Jenny at all, and she ended up pretty much as a bit player.)

Using Jenny in this way--as a generic heroine in high-concept stories--seems to defeat her whole purpose; the whole idea of Jenny was that she was something new, something different. This world is full of smart-mouthed action-girls with bad attitudes, six-pack abs and visible thongs--why force Jenny into that mold?

Someday, some dude is going to do a story with Jenny in a chainmail bikini and toting a big Rob Liefeld-style gun. On that day, Moriarty is going to track that dude down and kick him to death, while I hold the fucker down and hock loogies into his eyes.
 
 
moriarty
22:22 / 09.02.04
Funny, I didn't sense any rudeness in your posts, impulsivelad, and I do believe you've been open to criticism, but now I don't understand your point about quantity and stagnation where previously I thought I had. There would certainly be more then one new story every two years with or without your contributions, and that doesn't take into account the number of other comics Jenny makes a cameo in. And even if you were correct about the lessened frequency of new stories, I hardly see how that would be considered stagnant. Stories come when they do. There's no rush.
 
 
moriarty
00:01 / 10.02.04
One last thing to lighten up the thread before I shut the hell up.

My course has the world's worst life drawing class. It's one of those situations where you need to spend years afterward forgetting everything you were taught and relearning it all the right way. We never actually learned regular ol' human anatomy. Instead, our teacher decided that we would learn by drawing the human figure as superhero.

The proportions we were to use were very specific. Our teacher took them straight out of How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way. I tried to explain to her that there were all sorts of proportions that have and could be used for a superhero, but she told me I obviously didn't know anything about comics (?!) and that was the end of the conversation.

As usual, I waited until the last minute, and because I didn't want to come up with an entirely new character, I used Jenny. Here's my heroic rendition, side-by-side with a rough sketch of the rendition that I plan on using in an upcoming (finally) story.

 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
00:19 / 10.02.04
Aside from anything else - moriarty! That sounds like the worst class ever!

I just had to express that. But really! Jesus...

Your Jenny looks cute. One question. When?
 
 
Jack Fear
00:20 / 10.02.04
Ah, the old eight-and-three-quarters heads rule. I've got my copy of HOW TO DRAW COMICS THE MARVEL WAY here on my desk, actually... let's goto the relevant passages (emphasis mine)...

Let's start with the average Joe, like you or me. Most average guys are about six-and-a-half heads tall. But take at look at [the sketch opposite] ... If we draw a hero, he's got to look like a hero--he should be of heroic proportions. Unfortunately, the normal six-and-a-half-head-tall proportions would make him seem somewhat dumpy when drawn in a Marvel mag...

I've recently started drawing again, working mostly from magazine photographs, trying to train my eye and hand to work together. I've been drawing a lot of figures, and measuring the proportions as I go... and folks, only supermodels are eight-and-three-quarters heads tall.

Supermodels... who look freakish in ordinary society.

It's all about context. A normal guy would indeed look "dumpy" in a world of supermodels. And that's the MARVEL way--a world of supermodels!

Woo-hoo.

That's a lovely sketch on the right, Moriarty. I love the slightly doubtful sideways glance that Properly Proportioned Jenny is giving Marvel-Style Jenny.
 
 
Bed Head
00:49 / 10.02.04
I got an old Chester Brown interview about somewhere, he’s taking about his early rejections from Marvel and DC, how the editors were perfectly aware he could draw, but kept telling him he didn’t draw enough ‘beautiful’ people. Yeah, there’s a lesson for all of us there.


And, really lovely sketches Moriarty.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:07 / 10.02.04
And a shiny nickel to the first person who writes a story in which moriarty's two Jennys fight to the death...

Thanks for explaining the superheroic proportion issue far better than I, mors and Jack. And mors, your Jenny (right-hand) looks great.

Just to clarify - I can understand why imp is unhappy with *me*; after all, I'm criticising his writing. I just dont see why this should lead to attacks on the other Jenny creators, and the charge of lack of prolificity is a bit of a harsh one. I'd like to see part 2 of DFHT, but I'd like Fly and Nelson to get it right...

FFR, as I feel I said earlier, I did like bits of the script for this one, as I have other impulsivelad joints. I just happen to read his frequent attempts at Jenny's sexuality as one-dimensional, unconvincing and largely gratuitous, and I don't see that they add anything to the story. In fact, they actively detract. Like "Bacterial Lunaversity" - really like a lot of it, *love* the crash into the lunar lander, although the ending left me a bit cold, but the Ms Stern snog... it's just ike a big sign got waved in front of my face saying "this is how woman-woman sexuality works in Impulsivelad's head! Tune in later for more!", and it rather got in the way of the story.
 
  

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