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Who do you kiss?

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09:17 / 29.01.04

First off, I'm not talking about kissing in an explicitly sexual context. I'm framing this largely as a question of etiquette because, frankly, I find kissing by way of greeting as something of a minefield. But then I think perhaps there is more to platonic kissing than meets the eye. In fact, what the kiss meets is part of the problem. Anyway, my approach is as follows:

With close friends it's relatively straight forward (although not unnuanced). My close female friends all expect to be greeted with a kiss - generally on the cheek, although some seem to opt for both cheeks, and others for a lip-to-lip peck. I've pretty much learnt who favours what. Significantly, perhaps, I don't kiss men at all.
Then there's the middle group of people with whom I am friendly, but have me unsure whether they expect me to lean in for face-to-face contact. This is minefield central, but negotiable. No one's going to be too offended however I approach them.
Then there are the people I meet for the first time who constitute the territory where anything can happen: the jeopardy group. Treading the line between standoffish reticence and presumptuous over-familiarity strikes fear in my heart.

I get the feeling that other people are more confident about the conventions than I am; I suspect I had mumps when it was covered at school. So, what are the rules? Who do you kiss? Do you make an initial gender distinction? Is a person's age significant? What qualifies someone as kissable (or rather, to-be-kissed)? And how do you do it? What kinds of things inform your judgement? At least one inquiring mind wants to know.

10:36 / 29.01.04

Kissing, bleugh.

Noone kisses in Scotland, at least where I grew up, except people in your family and your SO.

So it still bothers me when people I barely know come zooming at me for a kiss, and my European colleagues with their multi-faceted pecking just drive me nuts. "Okay, yes, you're dutch and it's your culture - but I'm Scottish and it's MY culture to nod and say 'hiya' so back off!"

Ahem. So I'm not much good on the etiquette as I'd rather everyone just quit the whole silly business.

13:55 / 29.01.04

kiss everyone of the opposite sex, and if your a girl everyone of the same sex.

there are only a few reasons for not kissing; not knowing the person at all well, hating the sight of them, knowing they have a contagious degenerative skin disease.

other reasons are less acceptable, such as being scared of them, or your SO. still okay, but less acceptable.

14:31 / 29.01.04

I kiss anyone who I like enough to kiss who I'm fairly confident will allow it. usually, when I meet someone for the first time, like at a barbemeet, for example, it depends on how internety close I am to them. if I'm friendly at all, they get a hug, and if we talk often or I like them a WHOLE LOT, I will give them a kiss on the cheek at some point in the embrace. kisses on the face are for anyone that I'm fairly comfortable with, and in a situation where it's not an effort to GET to their face - for example, hugging or sitting close together on a couch. kisses on the lips are reserved for people that I am pretty close to, or are attracted to.

as for who I am comfortable having kiss ME, its pretty much open. even if we're only casual friends, as long as it's not creepy or overtly sexual, I don't mind and in fact may be pleasantly surprised - after all, I really do love to be kissed, platonically or otherwise. however, I think it's inappropriate for someone I really don't know to kiss me.

14:31 / 29.01.04

I think everyone should kiss everyone or no-one should kiss anyone. That way we'd avoid the 'to kiss or not to kiss' question.

Actually, on second thoughts everyone kissing everyone would mean I'd have to kiss the local Apple Mac salesman, which is an appalling idea given that his breath is worse than Anne Widdecombe's on the Atkin's diet.

The Apple-Picker

14:58 / 29.01.04

Ooh, now that I know, I can't wait to lay one on bitchiekittie!

15:14 / 29.01.04

Ummm......I have an aunt who gives me a kiss on the cheek when I see her at Christmas every year. I think that's about the extent of it for me. Maybe no kissing is a Canadian thing? Maybe I'm just a prude? Or more likely....maybe I usually look too pissed off and unaproachable to risk attempting a kiss.

The Apple-Picker

15:18 / 29.01.04

But onto the kissing. I kiss sister, mom, and brother. I'm sure I've kissed my dad, but I can't remember any time recently. I kiss my mother's parents on the lips; I kiss my father's parents on the cheek. I have only one girlfriend who I kiss, and the rest of my kisses tend to be romantic.

I'm not stingy. I just fear the misplaced kiss.

17:32 / 29.01.04

I'll kiss anyone, me. It's got to be worth a punt, hasn't it?

20:31 / 29.01.04

Iranians always kiss each other, across genders. Men kiss men, usually either two or three times, alternating cheeks. I always hated this because it meant that unsavory relatives got to slobber on me.

21:24 / 29.01.04

Most gay men I know kiss as a greeting. On the lips too...

21:36 / 29.01.04

This is an issue that has long troubled me. As an Italian, I am used to kissing freely. I wouldn't kiss everyone but any handshake, say, is usually accompanied by a kiss. Gender is not a factor.

But as an English person, I realised that kissing was pretty taboo. Until I started meeting lots of middle class people. Can you see the minefield?

22:34 / 29.01.04

Generally I don't kiss unless the other person I'm greeting / leaving expects it, or I know them really well and am feeling particularly affectionate. Normally I hug my friends to say hello or goodbye but when in Edinburgh I met my cousin and all her friends who do salsa and they all kiss you, on both cheeks even though they had only just met me. I don't really object (it's only a couple of seconds after all) and I prefer to be polite. I just have to watch carefully and see what they're going to do.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:43 / 29.01.04

I think I must be part-Scottish. Or Canadian.
I hug, though. Sometimes.

23:18 / 29.01.04

Im also in the scottish branch of this, I think. I've never particuarly experienced people doing this, other than family friends from other places, and my sister's in-laws from Greece. It does make me feel rather uncomfortable. However, my two best friend, I do kiss on the cheek. The male one, mostly when Im feeling particuarly in love with him for whatever reason usually related to dancing or chocolate, whereas the female one most of the time when I greet or leave her.

Never aquaintences. Rarely friends. Always family younger than me.

However, hugging is universally exceptable. Perhaps its just the equivalent of a polite kiss up here.

01:04 / 30.01.04

God, you lot actually touch people you're not having sex with?

Freaks.

01:13 / 30.01.04

Hmmm. That's a very slippery question!

Kissing seems to be an intimate, but not automatically sexual, behavior for me. I'll kiss family without any excuse, will also kiss lovers hello and goodbye and just-because whether or not we're in public... I guess damn-near anybody I've been properly introduced to could kiss me on the cheek, but mouth-to-mouth contact with somebody I just met seems like it's a prelude to other intimacies.

I'm starting to have real trouble imagining circumstances in which kissing/not kissing could be a fatal faux pas, especially if it's someone you don't really know. Is this really a problem??

01:17 / 30.01.04

Hey! Get it right - I'm not a freak, I'm a pervert!

02:00 / 30.01.04

I kiss all friends of ours and, it goes without saying, anybody higher up. Not doing so can have... repercussions

12:18 / 30.01.04

I wouldn't even contemplate kissing my friends or relatives. In the past, elderly relatives have attempted the kissing thing, but I feel so awkward, and would prefer that it was avoided entirely. I am okay with hugging close friends and relatives, but kissing, nope.

12:25 / 04.02.04

40%'s thread in the Policy reminded me that I meant to come back to this.
These responses have been really interesting. For one thing, no one came back with the rule (that I've since learnt elsewhere on the web) that when kissing on the cheek you always go to the left first. I *think* I tend to do this anyway, but largely because I tend to tentatively follow the other person's lead. Useful to know nevertheless.
But it's encouraging to learn that others are no more confident about this than I am. But a few things I wanted to pick up on, in no particular order:

Lurid mentions that, in England, kissing is less taboo among the middle classes. I might be dense, but it never occurred to me that there was a class component to all this. I was aware of its association with luvvie-ish, self-consciously cosmopolitan, meeja types, but not the middle class per se. Is there anything more to be said about this? Are the upper classes more or less reticent than the middle or working classes, for example? Why might this be the case?

Toksik is confident that men are are not to be kissed by other men, although The Fool observes that there is an exception if one (or both, ze's not clear) is gay. I'm interested in this, particularly because the consensus amongst social kissers seems to be that sexual attraction is not a factor (since family members qualify, even when no one else does). Does anyone else have any thoughts on how sexuality affects the kissing agenda?

Finally, hugs. Personally I'm surprised that hugging is widely taken to be a lower-level expression of affection, intimacy, welcome, whathaveyou, than a kiss on the cheek. Personally, I'm more readily inclined to lean in for a cheek-to-cheek than I am to embrace them bodily. For me, that's reserved for a very select few. It's made me think about the heirarchy more generally. What are the levels of acknowledgement? A nod, a handshake, a hug, a kiss... etc. Are there nuances within each? Does anyone do the double-handed shake or instance? It seems to me that greetings are much more complex and loaded social behaviours than I might have thought, with masses of room for misreading when you consider the modifying role of nationality, gender, sexuality, class etc.
Thoughts?

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:49 / 04.02.04

There's are a permutation of the (cheek-)kissing as platonic greeting/farewell thang that always confuses/perturbs me: when it's someone who I know just about well enough to do this with, but don't know their preference. Now, generally I'm not the sort of person who would always think to lean in for a kiss goodbye/hello, so it tends to be okay because I wait to see what the other person does (I know some people who are very keen and demonstrative about this) and let them take the lead, but a tiny neurotic part of my brain thinks: what if they're waiting to see what I do, and take my lack of kissing as an indication that I'm not too fond of them? But if you go to kiss them on the cheek and it's not something they do, you may make them uncomfortable - it can be inappropriate on several levels. Someone please reassure me that I'm not alone here.

Not entirely sure why I felt the need to vent my platonic-kissing Woody Allen-isms, but there you go.

16:00 / 04.02.04

Those sort of neurotic flaps are meat and drink to me, Flyboy, so you're not alone there. I prefer to risk looking uptight ot stand-offish (or "touch-phobic", as a female friend has described me) than risk looking like a creepy slobbering jerk, so if in doubt I go for the non-invasive option. To be honest, I'd prefer a formal system of salutes and fancy winks, but I reckon I'm on my own there.

That said, I do like a hug, but that's only for close friends. It's the best way to convey affection. Ah, how hard do you squeeze, and for how long?

18:27 / 04.02.04

So, what are the rules? Who do you kiss?

Me. The rules are, you kiss me. Hard.

Ignore the others.

20:17 / 04.02.04

I find that it has to do with the amount of momentum of a person's approach (and yours for that matter), if I can put it that way.

Some people, when they get within 10 feet of you, will start to slow down, such that by the time they're close enough to think about kissing them, it's clear they're not going to give you the opportunity. If someone doesn't slow down their pace when they get to about this distance, it's fair to assume they're expecting some sort of physical contact. That's the main way I judge it. I feel that the 'momentum' of facial expresions plays a part as well i.e. the look of pleasure at seeing you will either continue during the approach, or will peak, will be 'summarised' at a safe distance, by a nod or verbal greeting.

I always prefer to kiss girls on the cheek, and I feel a bit uncomfortable with it if a girl I've known for some time still doesn't seem to want to express affection in this way. A hug's just as affectionate, although subtlely different. I agree with Smoothly that hugging can often be more familiar.

To me, hugs say "you're a good friend", kisses on the cheek say "you're a decent person", handshakes say "I respect you as an equal".

20:23 / 04.02.04

Toksik is confident that men are are not to be kissed by other men

oh no, not at all!
although i would not kiss everyone of the same sex, some men are to be kissed.

you should be safe with girl on girl kisses and one-of-each encounters s'wha'ameantae-sae.

21:04 / 04.02.04

Yes, sorry toksik. I do s'wha'yameantae-sae. It is in fact what you did sae. My mistake.

23:32 / 05.02.04

I confess I also recently kissed somebody on the pretense that it was a cultural thing but really he was just hot. It met with no objection but I'm not sure I'd have the nerve to try it again without martini assistance.

02:45 / 08.02.04

Was it me?

Well?

Tryphena Absent

19:55 / 08.02.04

I'm not a friend kisser, actually my view is similar to Ariadne's at the beginning of this thread but without the emphasis on Scottishness. I think I'll leave it at that.

20:15 / 08.02.04

I find that it has to do with the amount of momentum of a person's approach (and yours for that matter), if I can put it that way.

I'll add that to my original answer, too.

I'd never kiss someone that I wasn't fairly sure would like one. a genuine show of affection can often serve to set people at ease, I find - but only a certain type of person.

21:10 / 08.02.04

I am very happy to kiss bitchiekittie because she sent me chocolate.

In fact - if you want a kiss, you have to bribe me with chocolate first...

Keith, like a scientist

21:23 / 08.02.04

i dunno. a female friend and i recently started kissing on occasion as a goodbye or something, and it's pretty weird. i like kissing girls so i'm not exactly complaining, but it does my head thinking about the subtext...

22:26 / 08.02.04

Can i have a kiss?

Awwww.

gotham island fae

22:45 / 08.02.04

I tend to extend a hug into a closeness of cheeks that leads to my lips near the ear but not nearly that intimate and a slight kissing *sound*. Some lady-friends I kiss on the lips. Some of my gay male friends outside the bar, I go for the more subtle, slower, teasingly more intimate snuggle described above.

I remember my DAD kissing me when I was small and smaller, rare, cheek kisses within the past adult years.

A good bi-friend enjoys kissing his bi-male-friends goodbye. I had to stop it after his mate found an email regarding a shroom trip weekend that was misunderstood. I recently kissed his cheek in the manner described at top of my post. His smile and JOY were apparent as he left.

I try not to kiss family if I've recently smoked.

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