Barbelith Underground > Switchboard > Kilroy's Anti Arab Rant

Hoom. Lazy post on my part.

Hmm. I think you're doing pretty much what Kilroy has done, there. You are assuming that, because some muslim nations do not have a free press, muslims in Britain should therefore not object to anything in the British press.

Not at all. I'm simply saying that their rights to object and his rights to parade his ignorance are both entirely substantiated by the same alleged freedoms afforded citizens (ok, subjects) of this country. Kiljoy-Sick is not anywhere in his entire misguided article suggesting that the Qu'ran and Muslim practice be censored and restricted in the UK. They, on the other hand, due to the fact that they object to his views, wish to do just this.

Shortly thereafter, you again seem to assume that, because Saudi Arabia is not all that kind to Christians, and because Saudi Arabians are often also muslims, muslims in Britain should not complain about people in the British press criticising their religion. That is, you are assumign that every Arab person in the world is precisely equivalent to every other Arab person in the world, and must therefore account for the behaviour of every other Arab.

Again, I think my initial post was so lazy that i can see how you have inferred the above. However, I did not state that I felt The Muslim Council should not object (as they did). I suggested that they needed reminding of widespread implications that free speech and free press affords those who hold views entirely objectionable to whole swathes of a population. Admittedly, this isn't too clear in the originial post. I don't object to their objection, per se. It's their desire to censor and legally punish the author of that with which they disagree.

, first up, of course, Kilroy was not speaking out against muslims. He was speaking out against Arabs. His distinction was ethnic, not religious. Second up, why exactly should muslims in Britain never complain about representations of Arabs (or muslims) because they share a religion and possibly although not necessarily an ethnicity with other people in other states which do not have a free press? Third up oh for God's sake.

First - no, but Muslims were speaking back up about him. This is interesting actually, because I have noticed that in the media at large, Islam is largely treated as a race and not an ideology. Very strange. I clearly remember the BBC, that is a number of BBC pundits, accusing the late Pim Fortuyn of racism for openly objecting to the settlement of large populations of Muslims in Holland. 'You are being racist!', they proudly proclaimed, wearing their PC like a large and shiny badge. 'WTF?' I thought, wearing my confusion like an ill fitting suit.

Second - I did not intend to imply that they shouldn't. I strongly feel that illumination and progress is made by encouraging discussion and increasing the volume of argument and debate, not by censorship and by seeking the punishment of those whose views may be objectionable or unpleasant to us. 'Remind', see? 'Quid pro quo'.

Another thing about British muslims (or British Arabs, if you'd rather - they are a bit different) is that they are living in a democracy in which checks and balances exist to protect ethnic and cultural minorities from oppressions. These checks and balances are not perfect, just as the free press is not free, but they do nonetheless exist. Therefore, if Kilroy wishes to submit (or, in fact, resubmit) an article that encourages his readers to hate and despise a particular ethnic group, certain balances come into play, One of these is that the BBC, which has as part of its agreement with its employees that other work should not be such that the reputation of the BBC wil be adversely affected, will probably take a look at how this article reflects on that stipulation. Clearly, Kilroy has banjaxed it: he cannot be a man of the people if he expresses such dsislike for a chunk of it, any more than he can be seen as an unbiased interviewer if his views appear to be canted against a particular ethnic group. So, it makes sense for the BBC no longer to employ him as a talk show host; he has in effect broken his contract.

Quite agree about all this. His deal with the BBC is a quite seperate issue, with different interests and values.

It also seems fair that at the very least his comments are placed under some form of official or unofficial review, and he is made accountable for them. Accountability is a fairly important element in both a free press and a democracy.

Disagree. The fact that the entire article was published with nary a murmur when the wheels of war were being greased and live camera feeds of Our Boys gunning down Arabs in their own streets were seeping into our living rooms 24/7 kind of negates the entire argument against him, especially bearing in mind the claim that the article was re-published accidentally.

Now, it seems reasonable to say that an article containing about the same statements made about the blacks or the Jews, one an ethnic distinction and one a religious distinction, would not be published in the mainstream press (it seems reasonable, but actually there is no guarantee that it is actually the case. Nonetheless). Therefore, it seems reasonable also that in doing so the Express has failed to live up to the editorial standards expected of a mainstream publication, and should at least be subject to scrutiny by a body outside itself.

Again, the hypocrisy would be a tad too biting.

As it happens, of course, the Sun and the rest of the axis of Murdoch have thrown their weight behind Kilroy, seeing that another yard of ground could be won for their own view of freedom of expression, and so the idea that Kilroy is being persecuted by the establishment seems faintly comical. If not racist, he is certainly idiotic and unprofessional - his piece was resubmitted, which is dumb in itself, and was too badly written to show that it was not an attack on an entire ethnic group. It is a very bad article - badly put together and badly researched - the condemnation of Iran as being "one of the axis of evil" is particularly amusing.

I recommend the Sun article - available here. I particularly liked "Kilroy - whose mother's funeral was held last week".