Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Comic Books >

Greg Rucka's WONDER WOMAN

Page: (1)2

01:52 / 02.01.04

OK, I know you might be surprised to see a thread about Wonder Woman here on the 'Lith, but Greg Rucka's been turning in some pretty good shit on this book! He's even playing with the Olympian godforms and coming up with some nice revisionings of those classic Lads and Lassies. The latest issue (#199, just before the big 2-0-0) even features Ares taking Diana on a PROMETHEA-esque two page spread talking about how the true lords of the human race now are Lust and Conflict. (Sure, it comes off as PROMETHEA-lite, but it's intelligent and gutsy anyway) Anyone else checking this stuff out? Rucka has also managed to make WW a readable comic, and a well-written one at that - no small feat. But I figured between the high quality of the book and its use of gods and goddess, we'd stir some interest here among comic book and magick/mysticism fans. Who else has checked this out?

10:24 / 02.01.04

It's not bad, but I have the problem of comparing it to the Perez run, which I thought did everything Rucka is trying to do and did it better. Of course, Perez had a bit more freedom, since his book was part of Karen Berger's line (Vertigo before they called it "Vertigo", basically). Perez's WW was less Politically Correct than Rucka's. One thing that Rucka has done that annoyed me was making Diana a vegitarian, after Perez established her as not only a meat eater, but someone who attaches great spiritial and religious significance to the hunt (the whole circle of life thing). Perez's Diana was very much the pagan.

E

18:43 / 02.01.04

I'm digging it... Nive art too...

On the Vegi thing... it certainly seems like an appropiate responce to how "meat" is treated in "man's world"

there is no hunt . . .

Rucka's also added a bit of the Fariey Princess to WW with that issue having a little Blue Bird warn her of a raging forest fire... And then she's going to face an evil dwarf... "grumpy?" he just needs to teams up with another 6!

18:51 / 02.01.04

*lol* I hadn't put the bluebird and the 'evil dwarf' together - nice catch, Mr. Tricks! And yes, I think the artist is first-rate as well. Too bad they print the book on shitty newsprint.

I dig Eros as a white kid with dreds and semi-grunge clothing. His line in the latest issue about how the 'family' puts the moves on its own relations was hysterical. Nice cool portrayal of 'grey-eyed Athena' as well.

01:49 / 03.01.04

How many issues did the Perez run last? And which ones were they?

11:24 / 03.01.04

Perez wrote and drew the first 24 issues, then kept writing the book through #62, plus a couple of annuals, and the War of the Gods mini. It worked out to five year storyline. Probably the most unique and personal project Perez ever did. He didn't try anything like it before and hasn't since.

It was a complete reboot of the character, starting her over from the beginning. What he did with her took her so far from traditional superheroics that her history with the JLA was removed. There was a heavy emphasis on mythology (She ends up being an incarnation of both Gaea and Pandora), and she had a very different perspective on our world and culture. It took her a while to learn English, and she had an accent. The Pagan aspects were heavily played up, as were the Amazon warrior ones (She decapitates one of Ares's sons in the first arc). Sexuality wasn't avoided, either (Or, as one of the Amazons explains it, 3000 years on that island is a long time). There'd been gay characters in mainstream comics by then (in Byrne's Alpha Flight and Superman, and DeMatties's Captain America), but this was the first one to use the TERM "gay", IIRC.

Perez was at the high point of his career (having just come off Titans and Crisis), and could pretty well do what he wanted, and did. It was an interesting time to be reading Karen Berger's line of DC books (then Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman, Hellblazer, Sandman, Kid Eternity, Animal Man, Shade) before the "Vertigo style" became familiar, established, and an institution. You had these groundbreaking, innovative books that were their own little family, but still part of the main DC line. Animal Man was part of the Justice League while Morrison was doing all those strange things with him, and you'd see Constantine showing up in Titans without it seeming at all unusual. Batman and Luthor (among others) turned up in Moore's Swamp Thing, and the first Sandman arc centered around a JLA villain. I thought it a bit of a shame when Berger's books were separated from the rest of the line (And WW is just now beginning to recover from being taken from that family), as I thought the DCU was a much richer place with those characters and books.

E

13:28 / 05.01.04

I'm really looking forward to seeing where Rucka takes this story. WW #200 should be really fun.

I don't think the word "gay" ever popped up in Perez' run (I feel 95% certain about this)...while it was indeed heavily implied, as you said, perceval.

17:57 / 05.01.04

Yeah... it was a nice time when the vertigo charactors interacted with the rest of the DCU... such a continuation would've been great for both WW and Zatana... remember the BOOKS OF MAGIC?

I remember a couple of issues of Aquaman (written by Peter David) where he incounters SWAMP THING and then ANIMAL MAN... it worked So well and of course there was some comment Aquaman made about the Philosophical heights these two come from, is likely to give anyone else Vertigo...

it was funnier when read in the proper context.

I think I had stopped reading WW by the time War of the Gods came out... and while it seemed full of great ideas; especially the SHAZAM/W.W. dynamics, it never seemed to fullfill it's promis...

I'm always curious about the various creative takes on Wonder Woman many strong beginings that never seem to maintain momentium. I wonder why...
I think the title itself works against the series.
The same with the charactor's "costume" all the recient variations eagle helmet, capes and etc. seem to be attempts to address a fundimentally ridiculous costume.

The updating of the greek gods is great. It works wonders in underscoring the basic cluelessness of ZEUS as a charactor. Athena is rocking as well.

00:36 / 06.01.04

The term "gay" was used when Myndi Mayer's brother and his boyfriend were introduced, in the second annual, I believe.

E

13:22 / 06.01.04

I stand corrected! Good call, perceval - I think I remember this now that you mention it! That Mindi Mayer character was very cool, and her death/suicide was handled beautifully by Perez.

15:40 / 14.01.04

Check out the great interview with Rucka Rucka over at comicbookresources.com today!

18:52 / 29.01.04

Ish 200 is out and it's pretty good, not great. I wanted to like it a little more, but the main story is solid and the little anniversary extras are cute. The best thing about it the Rucka-written Linda Medley-drawn retelling of Greek myths at the end. And some nice pin-ups. And even though it's just pretty good, when the last time Wonder Woman has even been as good as 'pretty good'?

22:20 / 29.01.04

Yeah.. the main story seemed a bit insubstantial. I would have much rather enjoyed a more fleshed out climax and shorter "retro-features" they were cute but rather.. er, fluffy.

And Yes the Stoned story, er... rocked!!

Some truely wonderful Pin-ups as well. A nice 200th issue but I was hoping for more as well.

19:01 / 19.02.04

Too bad #201 wasn't very good...the guest artist was OK but the story was surprisingly weak -- Wonder Woman convinces the sentient entity that made part of itself into the Invisible Jet (from when Byrne re-introduced the jet years ago) to sacrifice its life to stop a tidal wave from hitting the US? Even the way it's drawn makes it unclear - is it the Invisible Jet that's sacrificiing itself? I guess some readers might know that the entity made up part of the "Wonder Dome", which was either on the island or part of Paradise Island, but come on, people!!

And making Circe sound like she's a wisecracking character from "Friends" might not be the smartest move, either. Looking forward to getting back to the Veronica Cale stuff and the politics/drama of the book.

21:29 / 19.02.04

So, Perce,

You've definitely interested me in the Perez run.

I don't suppose anyone knows if DC has collected any of this material? To me, it sounds a lot more interesting than what's going on right now.

But that's prolly just 'cause I've been sold the retro meme or some such thing.

22:00 / 19.02.04

actually they only JUST STARTED collecting this stuff...

just for you I suppose

19:00 / 20.02.04

Rock.

As long as my motives remain pure, I always get my way.

02:43 / 23.12.04

Well, don't know who else in the 'Lith is reading this, but it's still been coming out, and Rucka's run is OK but not great. At least it's a damn sight better than most Wonder Woman comics ever published. Diana just got blinded (the price she paid for defeating Medousa)... it's pretty good, I'm still buying & reading it, but it's not anything I would advise you all to run out and get. Still nice to have a decent WW comic though.

Rich Johnston says the rumors are that after Crisis 2, Geoff Johns and Ethan Van Sciver will be the creative team on WW once Rucka leaves in 8 months or so, something like that.

04:22 / 18.05.05

Okay, I just read a review of some of Rucka's WW comics and I wondered if someone who's reading this could give me a bit of a run-down on the minotaur/chef character from WW's entourage?

m.

14:05 / 18.05.05

He's a minotaur, we don't know much about him. When he first shows up there's an exchange where he says something like "I'm not THE minotaur, but A minotaur," so I guess he's not the one from the Perseus story. Diana and he are old friends; apparently he's got a lost love somewhere in Hades since that's been hinted in the present story where Diana, Wonder Girl and he go down to the underworld to retrieve Hermes, who's not come home from a mission. So maybe Ferdinand (that's his name) was a man who was turned into a minotaur by a spell at some point and wants to be a man again, a la Ben Grimm/The Thing...?

Rucka's WW has picked up a bit of late, I'm rather enjoying it.

14:42 / 18.05.05

I've read that the minotaur in question is named Ferdinand, ho ho, and is a cousin of the classic Minotaur of legend.

Cue nonsense gong. Alas, that the case.

He's a cook at Diana's Embassy, and works for her through the Wonder Woman Foundation. I'm assuming that he was one of the mythological creatures who lived on Wonder Dome and then the Dome Themysciran Embassy in DC. Now he's an equal-opportunity employee and flirts with a human woman. He wants Hermes to grant him a human form so he might marry the chick. It's a strange request for Diana to hear, who thinks he should be fine the way he is. His presence seems forced and I'm beginning to feel he's a lame Mary Sue.

18:02 / 18.05.05

Ferdinand:

Not sure if he's a cousin of the Minotaur but from what I recall of his own words... he's a Cretetaur as he's from the island CRETE rather than the Minotaur who was the son of MINOS. Or something to that effect.

The recent Underworld storyline has indeed picked up the pace, but IMO the Greek Mythology has been WW's strongest storytelling aspect. I do however lament the absence of the previous artist who rendered an excellent WW. I initially thought that Rags (torn leotards) Morales would be a terrible replacement but am suprising pleased with the art so far.

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:22 / 18.05.05

he's a Cretetaur as he's from the island CRETE rather than the Minotaur who was the son of MINOS.

...Minos was the King of Crete, so there's a connection there. Does Ferdinand describe himself as a Cretetaur? If so I must eat Rucka.

Incidentally, Theseus killed the Minotaur, not Perseus. Small but telling.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

20:46 / 18.05.05

That was the pre-crisis Theseus.

21:01 / 18.05.05

...Minos was the King of Crete, so there's a connection there. Does Ferdinand describe himself as a Cretetaur? If so I must eat Rucka.

The post was based on my admittedly imperfect memory, as I recall; upon the introduction of that character, he clarifies the distinction between a MINOtaur from MINOS and a WHATEVERtaur to discribe himself. I'll try diggin up that issue.

By all means eat Rucka, he should at least have a limb cooked for participating in that COUNTDOWN.

21:13 / 18.05.05

Kithotaur.

23:36 / 18.05.05

Okay, second question. Has anyone read Steven Sherrill's The Minotaur Takes a Cigarette Break? About a shy minotaur working as a short order chef, who has a crush on one of his fellow (human) employees?

hm.

Is all I'm saying. hm.

m.

00:17 / 19.05.05

I would go so far as to say that no-one has read that, and it is a made-up book.

I've read that Rushkoff one, was it just called Bulls? That was alright.

11:20 / 19.05.05

no, sreal, i remember the reviews in the paper. it sounds like an okay idea - but i don't like it when litty writers wear their influences so obviously: 'wow! that borges story about the minotaur is the tits! i'm a write my own, only longer, and with bits about bars and nightclubs!'

and rushkoff's Bulls is okay, 'exit strategy' in the US i believe. i have a weakness for those sherman 'nu-edge' (copyright 1996 r.u a tw@) writers, who seek to outdo each other by seeing who can write 'meme' the most often.

is this threadrot sorry.

01:07 / 20.05.05

Haven't read the Borges story - will go dig it up. So what happens when COMIC writers wear their litty influences on their sleeves, or try badly to hide their *ahem* "homages"? How is Ferdinand the Minotaur different from Don-Wan Kihotay from the old Star Wars comics?

m.

01:10 / 20.05.05

Oh, and also, proof of the existence of this book.

m.

06:34 / 20.05.05

Well, at risk of looking like a lit-loving ponce (in the eyes of Gumbitch), I love that Borges story.

It's called The House of Asterion.

Finder, where's good to start with WW.

11:56 / 20.05.05

There are now 2 paperbacks collecting the first 10 or so George Perez issues from years back, and 2 paperbacks collecting Rucka's first 10 or so issues.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:34 / 20.05.05

Incidentally, in what way exactly is Rucka using "godforms", rather than gods?

18:45 / 21.05.05

No, I believed you matsya. Just being daft. The Borges story's good, can't remember it very well though, zat the one in Labyrinths?

Page: (1)2