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Underground > Comic Books >

What Is Cassandra Nova?

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16:06 / 27.12.03

Defined as:

ADJECTIVE

1. Characterized by nobility; majestic. 2a. Of high spiritual, moral, or intellectual worth. b. Not to be excelled; supreme. 3. Inspiring awe; impressive. 4. Archaic Raised aloft; set high. 5. Obsolete Of lofty appearance or bearing; haughty

John to Ao Jun: “You mistake agony for its close relative, ecstasy.” (commenting on reports of the pain of graft rejection)

Edmund Burke on the sublime:

WHATEVER is fitted in any sort to excite the ideas of pain and danger, that is to say, whatever is in any sort terrible, or is conversant about terrible objects, or operates in a manner analogous to terror, is a source of the sublime; that is, it is productive of the strongest emotion which the mind is capable of feeling. I say the strongest emotion, because I am satisfied the ideas of pain are much more powerful than those which enter on the part of pleasure.

Sublime may be just a keen name, but it could also be informed by a rich tradition of aesthetic blather. Sublime could be something great and terrible. I don’t remember seeing a body, or much talk about his death afterward.

Maybe the hairy guy in HCT is John wearing the Beast, or Apocalypse in John wearing the Beast. Maybe Apocalypse is in love with the Phoenix and he’s been driven mad because for all his power and immortality he cannot reproduce. He’s a genetic dead end. Hopefully Grant’s setting him up for a “Magneto is a jerk,” type fall. If he’s the driving force of all this then he’s a total mess.

Matthew Fluxington

16:21 / 27.12.03

Maybe Apocalypse is in love with the Phoenix and he’s been driven mad because for all his power and immortality he cannot reproduce.

Oh, I like this. And it goes with that one big panel in #151 with "The Beast" fawning over the Phoenix egg, saying something like "oh, my sweet Jean..."

It would also somewhat explain why in previous continuity, Apocalypse and his underling Mr. Sinister were always trying to breed with Scott and Jean's genes.

17:08 / 27.12.03

So, have we ruled out that Cassandra's first body might be a SuperSentinel?

And I don't think that love has anything to do with En Sabah Nur's drives... And we've only got 4 issues left; I don't think that's enough for Grant to rewrite Apocalypse's given history. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if En Sabah Nur is possessing Sublime. It makes etymological sense> disembodied consciousness sublimates to plain human, without going backward through the mutant step. Hell, En Sabah Nur could still be a disembodied spirit (mutant aggression) as well as simultaneously being Sublime. We've seen how, SEVERAL TIMES, that a mutant mind dissipates into the aether(Charles, by way of Jean's hiding him in every mutant mind), Dummy, QQ... Apocalypse could actually be the propelling force as well as any active consciousness potentially. And that sounds EXACTLY like what Phoenix might have to "disinfect" the Earth of.

17:11 / 27.12.03

"(2) : to render finer (as in purity or excellence) b : to convert (something inferior) into something of higher worth"

Obviously, there's meaning here. Converting humans (inferior) to U-Mans (something of higher worth).

"intransitive senses : to pass directly from the solid to the vapor state"

But here, this is interesting. If the vapor state is spirit and the solid state is body...this backs up the theory of the En Sabah Nur spirit connected to the Sublime body(ies).

17:17 / 27.12.03

And I don't think that White Beast is a Bad Guy.

15:30 / 05.01.04

(This is Runce/Spalliance) Excuse me if someone's already said this upthread, but, in keeping with Grant's luv of the Stanilaus Grof, Cassy's Charles's birth trauma made flesh. She's a Tulpa, 1234 style. The "trauma site" that it is Charles's duty to liberate.

Nuff said.

And this is just one of those times when the Runce is right.

"See me for what I am, OK?"

20:13 / 06.01.04

Regarding Quireboy's Horsemen idea, the famine is right there in Planet X.

"They're starving out there"

"We haven't had food for 3 days"

(Both quotes are probably inaccurate, 'cos I'm in a computer room in uni and my comics are at home asleep.)

G

"See me for what I am, OK?"

20:15 / 06.01.04

And that would make Apocalypse's unwitting new horsemen:

Cassandra Nova (Death)
Quentin Quire (Chaos)
The Nano-Sentinels (Pestilence)
Magneto (Famine)

I like this. It seems Morrison. And if the story goes drastically different, I'm lobbying for a Matthew-led 'lith coalition to write any X-book that Chuck Austen is allowed to even think about.

Matthew Fluxington

21:18 / 06.01.04

Wow, I hadn't even considered that Four Horsemen thing. That's really neat.

The Kick may count as pestilence too, sort of.

13:15 / 07.01.04

Ok, the four horsemen thing I buy. Thats pretty neat amd I hope to god thats what Grant had in mind instead of us over-analysing once again...

But that would be good. Total side-swipe. I'm actually warming to this White Beast/En Sabah Nur thing. Damn you all.

13:37 / 07.01.04

Four horsemen makes sense. And this arrangement of significant players is a helluvalot more interesting and substantial than the "powering-up" of Caliban and Deathbird. And utilizing the most significant enemies makes poetic sense too. The X-Men have only really had a few enemy types - Sentinels, mysterious and uber-powerful mutants, humans, and Magneto. Grant's tied them together in a significant parcel.

New Death, or as Grant calls it: Transformation, makes sense with Cassandra, who has probably transformed and ended the most in the series.

War is probably more than just QQ, I see War as being the “war between mutant and human” that everybody seems to want to happen. I mean, on a somewhat smaller scale, it was played out by QQ, but I think the Weapon Plus Programme serves as Apocalypse's New War.

New Famine makes sense as Magneto because he lied so much. “He filled their lives with lies” and meaninglessness. Granted, he starved the mutant population of NY, but we're talking actual famine-like devastation, and that means removing sustenance from the world. The X-Men were removed from the equation, and we get Planet X Manhattan.

New Pestilence is for sure the Nano-Sentinels, the more effective way of attacking the mutant population.

I really like this theory, but I don't know if it will be addressed as such in the “Tomorrow” storyline.

Matthew Fluxington

13:52 / 07.01.04

I don't think it will be spelled out either - I think it's one of those things which is meant to part of the thematic subtext. It's the kind of thing which is supposed to be clear to you in the end.

18:01 / 07.01.04

Interestingly enough, the story arcs themselves can be broken up into the Horsemen categories:

DEATH = E is for Extinction, Murder at the Mansion

WAR = Riot at Xavier's, Assault on Weapon Plus

PESTILENCE = Imperial, Weapon XII, Germ Free Generation

FAMINE = Planet X, Xorn in Mutant Town

19:27 / 07.01.04

Zooming in on the WAR arcs... Do any of you see a pattern emerging among the evolution of the Weapon Plus SuperSentinels?

I'm of the belief that the Weapons are all accounted for:
11. Cassandra
12. Huntsman
13. Fantomex
14. Stepford Cuckoos
15. Ultimaton

Cassandra was telepathic, but MUCH MORE. The Cuckoos are too, as was the Huntsman, similarly, but different. Fantomex also seems to have some sort of telepathic gift, aka “misdirection” -esis.

Now I'm not sure where exaclty I read this, but someone states that The Huntsman destroys his enemies by turning them into himself. His power is viral and unifying under one collective consciousness. Xavier defeats him by doing the exact same thing through Multiple Man. Cassandra does something similar to her enemies, she adopts and adapts their (genetic) weaponry, not their minds or bodies. Fantomex is a single creature in two bodies, the man himself and E.V.A.... obviously there is telepathy between the two of them, but maybe more. Perhaps Fantomex ”leads the enemy into destroying its own self”. Fantomex manipulated the pacifist Xavier into a murderer and potential threat. Cuckoos assimilate to become the enemy and weaken them from within. Ultimaton completely annihilates his enemy... leading him to question the nature of "enemy" and that he could've become an artist. Making him subject to Wolverine's evisceration.

Any thoughts?

20:11 / 07.01.04

There's definitely something about the Cuckoos; mass-mind stuff was clearly apparent with Fantomex/E.V.A. and Zona (XII).

But E.V.A. is, I think Weapon XIV. 'Cos of something in #151, which I won't spoil.

20:25 / 07.01.04

SPOILERS

What? the Gen N thing? Maybe, I mean, there's plenty of room for either misinterpretation, or errors in my rationale... Also, we never see any of the Weapon's faces. Cass looks like a female Xavier, the Cuckoos might be little Charlies with XXs, and the boys are either swimming in energy like XII, or masked like XIII and XV. Charlie says in the first issue of NXM that his brain is the most poweful weapon on the Marvel Earth. Maybe the SuperSentinels are variants on that?

12:45 / 08.01.04

Nevermind all my previous garbage. It seems obvious to me now that the Weapons 11-15 are variations on malevolent vMemes from Spiral Dynamics. If Wolverine can be considered a tribal hunter(X-Men assassin) then he represents Purple. Then we got Cassandra at Red, Zona at Blue, Fantomex, who traded sides to suit his gain at Orange, egalitarian and striving to be equal Green Cuckoos, and "could've been an artist" XV at Yellow.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

12:57 / 08.01.04

Apparently Sublime is refed in Weapon X #16, a title which will soon be adapting to Morrison's "big changes".

13:00 / 08.01.04

I also think Cassandra is Weapon 11, but I'm almost sure E.V.A. is Weapon 14:

SPOILER

She states she is a Generation N (with N being the 14th letter from the Alphabet) product from the World, while Fantomex also claimed he was a Generation 13 super-sentinel. Maybe she was created from him (like Eve, or EVA in latin, from Adam), but she is definitely a different being (tough linked to Fantomex: his nervous system is in her).

I also believe all Weapon Plus operatives, from 12 on, were originated from Cassandra's DNA (which means Charles' DNA), hence the same exact words muttered by Cassandra and Weapon 15 ("All of this... all of this is mine!"), Fantomex claiming he's a new form of life (like Hank described Cassandra), or Wolverine recognizing Fantomex' smell, the first time he saw him (the issue in Aphganistan). And don't forget Fantomex' "real" name is CHARLIE Cluster 7.

But one doubt remains: how and where did the Weapon Plus program find Cassandra?

13:00 / 08.01.04

I also think Cassandra is Weapon 11, but I'm almost sure E.V.A. is Weapon 14:

SPOILER

She states she is a Generation N (with N being the 14th letter from the Alphabet) product from the World, while Fantomex also claimed he was a Generation 13 super-sentinel. Maybe she was created from him (like Eve, or EVA in latin, from Adam), but she is definitely a different being (tough linked to Fantomex: his nervous system is in her).

I also believe all Weapon Plus operatives, from 12 on, were originated from Cassandra's DNA (which means Charles' DNA), hence the same exact words muttered by Cassandra and Weapon 15 ("All of this... all of this is mine!"), Fantomex claiming he's a new form of life (like Hank described Cassandra), or Wolverine recognizing Fantomex' smell, the first time he saw him (the issue in Aphganistan). And don't forget Fantomex' "real" name is CHARLIE Cluster 7.

But one doubt remains: how and where did the Weapon Plus program find Cassandra?

13:05 / 08.01.04

Well, I think Flowers suggested that they could've taken cell-scrapings from Charles on one of the occasions he was in US Govt. custody.

18:47 / 08.01.04

I've been thinking about the Four Horsemen theory. And I think it's more possible that it breaks down as such:

Cassandra Nova = Pestilence
Quentin Quire = War
Magneto = Famine

And it is En Sabah Nur's final wish to make Dark Phoenix his Death to complete the Apocalypse. She is the Anti-Life after all.

19:33 / 08.01.04

Anti-Schmanti

You got a point about Phoenix being "Death", but…

There is no opposite of "life". And whatever Death the Phoenix brings will be the good and necessary transformational kind. Trust in Grant. His ways are mysterious, but He is a benevolent Lord.

What about the obvious human rebuttal of those "the horsemen"? Already, Logan, Cassandra, Fantomex and the Cuckoos are fighting for the REAL good guys, eliminating War. Beast is reconfiguring the nano-sentinel Pestilence into a gene-preserving retrovirus to "save" the homo sapien geneform. Magneto is going to be living forever as a idea, forever feeding people his ideal and polemically "Evil" archetype. (Same way Hitler's immortal).

Regrettable Juvenilia

22:36 / 08.01.04

Wolverine recognizing Fantomex' smell, the first time he saw him

A simple and far more likely explanation for this, and no doubt the one intended: Fantomex smells like the program/technology/people who made Logan what he is, too.

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