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Stephen King's The Dark Tower (SPOILERS)

 
  

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Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:44 / 12.12.03
Well, Mr. Masaru, let's get this started...

The Dark Tower Saga kicks ass. How much? Why?

Discuss.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:43 / 12.12.03
How much? A lot. Why? Cause Roland will shoot you dead if you don't agree.

We might want to say Spoilers in that abstract, just cause I fully intend to discuss what the hell is going on in that last chapter of Wolves of the Calla. And what it might mean. What do you think?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
14:55 / 12.12.03
I am on it, friend.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
16:47 / 12.12.03
Say true and thankya.

Anyway, who is seeing a Animal Man type finish to the Dark Tower? Stephen King writing himself into the books, and having a character from one of his novels discover a book about his story....kind of sets up Stephen King = God and Crimson King = Devil type of stories here...like the Crimson King is Stephen's waning writing enthusiam...or something.

I've long suspected that Stephen will be sitting in the top level of the Tower, writing away the last chapters of Roland's story...that this series is meant to be his last statement...
 
 
h3r
18:49 / 12.12.03
i'm so horny to get my hands on the "wolves" book.

my fave so far was wizard & glass. it was just so romantic. i love that tragic love story, it makes roland such a great character.

i think the series kicks ass so much because it really does present a very "modern" ( or ancient occult?) view of parallel universes, quantum physics, etc. Not sure whether mr king is well read on all that, I guess he just subconsciously taps into all that info.

I believe the dark tower could well turn into the LOTR of the new millennium, or at least century. I believe its similar to tolkien since it is "just" a novel thats a great pleasure to read due to the intricate world and characters. At the same time there is an underlying "message" that doesnt preach though. it's not like there is a point that is driven home or lesson to be learned, but as I said, I do feel that it reflects a shift in new scientific consciousness of our species.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
22:23 / 12.12.03
The message, and granted I haven't made it through LOTR so i don't know if it's better there, is so gorgeously laid out in the (so far) two encounters with the Rose in Manhattan. The fact that our noble Ka Tet are fighting for nothing more than the very essence of acceptance, of the positive, of the right choice instead of the wrong. It's gorgeous stuff when he gets into that gooey area of every thing fading together and all realities coalescing, all sighs and all yes.

I think if it does end up as an HBO series (and they'd be fucking retarded if they don't pick it up, King's basically invited them), then it could pervade the consciousness, but unfortunately, the Tower books are the most notoriously underread of his canon. Hopefully when they're all out, they'll get their due.

As far as King being at the top of the Tower. Don't think so. Check this:

(sp)
The penultimate volume in the Dar Tower series, Song of Susannah is a pivotal installment in the most anticipated series of publications in Stephen King's legendary career.

As Stephen King's seven-volume magnum opus draws to its electrifying conclusion, his hero, Roland Deschain, discovers the key to the quest that defines his life.

Susannah Dean, her body taken over by a demon-mother named Mia, has used the power of Black Thirteen to transport out of Calla Bryn Sturgis to New York City in the summer of 1999, so that she can give birth to her "chap". While Jake, Father Callahan, and Oy try to break Susannah's date with destiny at the Dixie Pig on Lexington and 63rd, Roland and Eddie use "the persistence of magic" to get to East Stoneham, Maine in the summer of 1977. It is a frightful world at they walk in on. For one thing, it is real, and the bullets are flying. For another, it is inhabited by the author of a novel called Salem's Lot, a writer who turns out to be as shocked by them as they are by him.

Driven by revelation and suspense on these two fronts, Song of Susannah continues the Dark Tower saga from Wolves of the Calla; its dual climaxes create a positively distressing imperative to move on to the quest's conclusion. King's e legions of ardent readers will again relish the links between the Dark Tower universe and his other book's - and delight in the unfolding denouement of his magnificent serial epic.


So there you have it. It's more Dave Sim than it is, um, I don't know, who's had the stones to portray themselves as God on the Throne?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
15:01 / 13.12.03
well....yes. but dave sim was portraying himself the same way, as creator of this creation. i would be surprised if this isn't how it eventually plays out with King. just because he is shocked at their arrival doesn't mean he can't eventually figure out that he created them.
 
 
Ellis says:
11:15 / 14.12.03
So how much do you have to know about Stephen Kings other books to understand this series?

-Doesn't he bring all his old characters back at points in the series?
 
 
THX-1138
12:43 / 14.12.03
Wasn't Roland created by King befre 1977? I can see him being shocked at meeting one of his characters, and then realizing he is going to have to revisit the old manuscript and conclude it, and somehow including (creating) Eddie.
Oh the Dark Tower tale just gets better. I can't wait. It surely does kick ass, yer-bugger!
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:38 / 14.12.03
you really don't have to know much about his other books. reading the other books just enhances your knowledge of the DT series, though. there are little nuggets sprinkled throughout some of the other books that are very interesting to read how they intersect DT. Insomnia is a big one for me, and Black House, and Hearts in Atlantis. Those 3 are very interesting for their DT info.

1977...that's really interesting. In 1977 where was King in terms of writing DT? Hmm...it appears that he first started writing The Gunslinger in 1970, and the chapters were individually published between 1978 and 1982. That's INTERESTING. So, when the kat-tet will meet him, it's right as he is finishing up the first chapter of the first book. Apparently, King was also 19 when he started writing The Gunslinger.
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:48 / 15.12.03
Hmmm, feel a bit unsure about the prospect of some of the plot twists mentioned here. Dunno.

Anyway, I LOVE the Tower series, think they're amongst SK's best work (along with the Dark Half and Misery, for what it's worth), but I have to be absolutely honest and say that the time it's taken for them to come out is a huge problem for me - I must have read the first one when it was first out in mass-market paperback (mid-to-late-80s?) and the others as they were released, during which time I've not only forgotten whole chunks of it but I see Steve's done a 'creator's cut' of the first book ? Hmmm.

And whilst I haven't read the latest - waiting for the paperback - I didn't enjoy Wizard and Glass much (a large part of me wondered if it was ghosted for him by Tabitha, for no adequately explainable reason; just one of those ideas that occasionally takes root and won't be shaken off despite evidence to the contrary) because it was so heavily flashback-based, and the prologue to book 5 which I read in McSweeney's Mammoth Treasury of Thrilling Tales was SO full of pseudo-jargon and the like I found it a bit hard going.

All that aside, if there's more - and the stuff being posted here suggests that there will indeed be - of the stuff like doors in the desert, and Jake being reincarnated in various forms, and baddies with the initials RF, and fun little nods to his other writing (though that's nothing new, I know), I'll be interested. The time-travel/bending/whatever sounds promising.

Benjamin B, no offence, but where did that info come from ? Steve's site, or a publishing site or something ? It sounds a bit like a promotional piece, just curious.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:34 / 15.12.03
I nicked it off liljas-library.com, who, I'm guessing saw it in a press reease from whoever it is who's publishing Books V-VII.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:39 / 15.12.03
I'd keep hope alive for Wolves, Dave, the jargon is a bit much at times, but it does add a nice je ne sais quai to the proceedings. And the final three books are coming out in semi-rapid succession (VI in August 2004, VII in November 2004), so no worries there.
 
 
DaveBCooper
09:37 / 16.12.03
Yep, I'm still sufficiently interested that I'll get the papperbok - ahem, paperback. It was just a bit of a jolt to get back to kai and thankee-san and whatnot after a bit of time off.
Thanks for that info, by the way; thinking about it, it makes perfect sense that if Roland's world intersects with many others in differing ways and at different times, it's only fair that it could do so in 1977... then again, since I think he's often claimed he knows what's going to happen at the end of the series, maybe he can give the characters a few tips to help them on their way ?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
09:49 / 16.12.03
I've sort of been envisioning it, in my hot tub of speculation, as a meeting in which he admits to them that he's got no clue, that he just follows them around in his head and writes what he sees. Much like Sim did, I think he'll just use the opportunity to talk about what it's like to have ideas and put them down on paper. Yet another example of all that good force of positivity and creation, probably juxtaposing his creation of art with Mia's creation of something icky.
 
 
DaveBCooper
11:49 / 16.12.03
Ah yes: he might admit he has no clue, but they fill him in on what's happened to them, thus giving him the information necessary to write up to that stage in the books (oh, I've phrased that badly). Maybe it was only after 1977 and the visitation that SK knew what happened in the story - up to that point, anyway.
Heh. Initially I was a bit hmm about the idea, but I'm now growing to like it a bit. As long as Steve doesn't then claim too vigorously that it really happened - because if it had, it should have been in On Writing, surely ?
 
 
THX-1138
20:15 / 17.12.03
well check this out: I saw The Return of the King today and in the scene where Gandalf & company arrive at Saruman's tower and retrieve the palantir I thought of Black Thirteen when it was shown on-screen. "That's Black Thirteen!" nahh couldn't be...
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
21:15 / 17.12.03
I thought the same fucking thing.
 
 
THX-1138
15:49 / 24.12.03
But y'know I didn't make the connection until I saw the movie and King even mentions hobbits in the intro to the new editions of the previous four DT novels. I'm not too sure he intends for Black Thirteen to be Saruman's palantir, but in light of elements of DT5 what do you think?
 
 
quinine92001
06:08 / 25.12.03
HAs anyone here read the EXTENDED edition of Gunslinger? The last King novel that I read and enjoyed before Wizard and the Glass was The Tommyknockers. I understand Father Callahan is making a return but I thought he burnt up inside of a Greyhound bus or something on an account of being a vampire. It's been so many years since I have read 'Salems Lot I can't remember. Is Flagg going to return? I know he has appeared in The Stand and Eyes of the Dragon has he shown is darkling face anywhere else?
 
 
THX-1138
13:32 / 25.12.03
It didn't seem so much an extended edition, more of a revision actually. To be honest I couldn't tell what King had changed or removed. Unless you actually sit down with new and 'old' editions of the book side by side, to compare changes, you probably won't notice. So your mission should you choose to accept it is to read the original edition then immediately after finishing that, read the new edition. :-)
 
 
anna1174
01:50 / 26.12.03
i read the extended version (never read the original, am currently 200 pages into book 4) and the biggest difference i can see from reading the other books is that walter and marten are the same person, which does not seem to be the case in the original. right?

loving the series, am spoiled by being able to read them all for the first time one after the other. having watched the first two lord of the rings movies yesterday, i see the influence it had on king, but king went his own way and made a unique story. does anyone want to see films versions of the books? mostly i don't but it occurs to me occasionaly.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:25 / 26.12.03
I want to see an 8 season series of it on HBO, exec produced by Frank Darabont, with Viggo as Roland. Also, my friend and I might storyboard Book III, just so we can get the job.

Oh, and I highly doubt Black 13 and the Pal are one in the same. Just very clear inspiration.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
03:59 / 27.12.03
~I've sort of been envisioning it, in my hot tub of speculation, as a meeting in which he admits to them that he's got no clue, that he just follows them around in his head and writes what he sees. Much like Sim did, I think he'll just use the opportunity to talk about what it's like to have ideas and put them down on paper. ~

just as long as eddie doesnt lament how unfair his life is and king doesnt mention a dead kitten the man may be allowed to live :-P

How tentative are the links to some of the books listed in Wolves as being connected. i mean some of them seem like his more recent (lesser selling) novels and i wonder how much of it was contrived to boost sales of these titles.

not that i see conspiracies everywhere or anything...
 
 
dirtysky
04:53 / 27.12.03
How tentative are the links to some of the books listed in Wolves as being connected. i mean some of them seem like his more recent (lesser selling) novels and i wonder how much of it was contrived to boost sales of these titles.

Actually I haven't seen a lot of connections in more recent works. Dreamcatcher springs to mind as the only one with a connection, and that would be taking place in Earth Prime (ie: Castle Rock earth) and a refrence to Pennywise, who some speculate is the Crimson King.

Tom Gordon, Bag of Bones etc are more stand alone books. And From a Buick 8, while having parralell worlds and a door between them, has no clear relation to the Dark Tower books. Some people I have talked to have said that the dark world in Buick is Rolands, which doesn't jive with me. Mostly because the creatures that come out of it are unable to live in our world, and apparently we are unable to survive in theirs. The only place I could see it being is The Waste Lands... Wonder if anyone noticed a Monorail Track...

-Spider
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
18:47 / 08.06.04
Whoaaaaaa.

So, I just finished Book VI.

!!!HE THRUSTS HIS FISTS AGAINST THE POSTS AND WARNS OF HUGE FUCKING SPOILERS!!!

Nearly everything in the above posts is dealt with and with smashing thoroughness and effectiveness. Although it's short, it's incredibly dense. And mostly a prologue for Book VII (which we only have to wait until September 15th for).

In the palaver between Mr. King, Roland, and Eddie (which was handled so damned beautifully), it becomes increasingly clear that while SK holds a huge amount of power over Roland's world (obvs), he's a slave to a greater power and somehow these books themselves are a danger to the Crimson King and the forces of Discordia (please, Steve, lose the exclamation point next time). So, in a stunning turn of events (that wasn't so stunning if you'd been spoiled about it as I was), in this reality, the reality where Stephen King is writing The Dark Tower and the reality in which Eddie and Roland find SK and deem that this is the strongest and most powerful reality, the car accident which nearly crippled SK (in OUR reality, not to be confused with "this" reality), kills Stephen King. Presumably before he could finish books V through VII.

So.

Where exactly does that leave us? This reality where we've got (presumably) the last three books and a perfectly healthy Stephen King. In our reality, the forces of Discordia have not won, but in Roland's, they have.

King takes great pains to link "his" reality with "our" reality (9/11), but the trump card at the end complicates matters, doesn't it?

Now there is no connection between our world and the DT prime world. It's been severed by Discordia, disguised as a van on a Maine highway. In OUR reality, though, those forces were swayed. Perhaps this is what Roland ultimately accomplishes? The creation of another chance? A world in which the lynchpin (Steve) was not destroyed? Our world? The world in which the Dark Tower story survives?

It's clear that Steve feels this is an important work not just to him but to reality, and it's easy to see why, what with all the revelations in this issue (ha!) about magic and technology, etc.

I'm pretty fascinated by the way in which King wove together this story and the physical story itself. And every other story he ever wrote. I'm also pretty astounded that it hasn't fallen completely on its ass yet. It is truly reading as if it were preordained, without one false step. Every scene feels completely right, The Last Stand Of Pere Callahan & The Manhattan Kid, the birthing room and the Private Dining Room, the Castle; everything.

Kind of raises the hackles on your neck, doesn't it?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
22:49 / 08.06.04
!!! COMPLETELY IGNORING ABOVE POST AND WISHING I KNEW HOW YOU READ IT BEFORE TODAY SINCE TODAY WAS THE DAY IT WAS PUBLISHED !!!

Just got back from the bookstore with my copy...agggggg....now i have to wait until i can read your comments!!!! aggggg....
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
01:35 / 09.06.04
Actually, I walked desperately into the Midtown Virgin Megastore and found it on the new release cart, not yet put out on Monday. I bought it and fled.

Then I read with a whole heck of a lot of haste.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
14:35 / 09.06.04
well, i'll be back with comments in a day or two. i burned through almost 200 pages last night...i was dying to read the King chapter, so i skipped the chapter before it, and have to go back and read that...probably read the King chapter again, too, cause...jesus, wtf?

anyway, talk to you soon.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:12 / 09.06.04
Look forward to it. While you're waiting, check out how I've completely gone nuts.

105 Days. Almost 26,000 pages. Should be a blast.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:18 / 09.06.04
are you reading these in order?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:28 / 09.06.04
Yeah. By publication.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:55 / 11.06.04
ok.

ok.

hmm...i finished book 6. THAT was interesting. this is gonna take a bit to fully digest, but:

-the SK chapter was especially interesting. ever since book 4 and reading every DT related book I could, I pretty much figured SK would turn up as a character (still waiting for Patrick Danville, who is suppose to save 2 people that have to reach the tower). not sure what to say about this beyond the fact that i don't think we have the complete story yet.

-not sure how i feel about this entire Mordred stuff...seems a bit odd, kind of out of nowhere, but i guess it ties into the bizarre melding of famous stories and characters (seven samurai, oz, man with no name, arthur, merlin, etc.)

-the hammarskold tower or whatever strikes me as very symbolic...is it possible they will actually enter this building as their entrance to the real dark tower?

-,,,i confess...i have literally no idea what is going on anymore. i think this one requires a re-read (moreso than Wolves) before book 7.

um...you got anything else?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:59 / 11.06.04
Not too much else.

I've sort of given up on trying to parse out what goes where and who will end up wherever. I'm quite confident it will be made clear in time (and not too much time either).

The Mordred stuff, I think, comes off as sudden but it's been hinted at since Book III either overtly or covertly. And this book (and it's really looking like every book of his) is 100% about parents and children.

I loved the way Mia just cut right to chase about that, the way we all just kid ourselves when we call people dinhs or generals or leaders. Spot on.

I loved "The Writer", every moment of it. I loved the way the initial confrontation worked out (SK just completely bolting out of the house and then collapsing in front of the like), I loved the Shootout At The O.K. Convenience Store, I loved the Pere Callahan & The Manhattan Kid cliffhanger, I loved loved loved Suze's Dogan (although I hate hate hate that name for it), and The Dixie Pig...brrrrr.

And Jesus did we actually get a Motorboat getaway in a Dark Tower novel?!?

There is no beating this series.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:56 / 15.06.04
I've deliberately avoided reading this thread- I'm currently about a quarter of the way through "Wizard and Glass", but reckon I should be up to speed by the time the last volume comes out.
Initial observations- I REALLY didn't like the idea of going into "our" world in "Drawing of the Three"- until it actually happened, and it was fucking excellent. Still a little dubious about Blaine the train... (I think that's largely because having machines speak in capitals has always seemed wrong to me, for no apparent reason. But LOVED Eddie's method of beating him. A man after my own heart, truly.)
I'm greatly looking forward to the post-modernist shenanigans that I'm assured are to come... as long as there's still gunplay. LOTS of gunplay.
 
  

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