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Cthulhuoid Conjurations?

 
  

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Z. deScathach
11:28 / 28.11.03
Hmmm, it would seem to me that the ultimate effect on the magician would have more to do with hir perception of the entities themselves. One person may conjure a great old one with the idea of it as a dark and sinister force. Another may conjure with the idea of an uncontrollable primal force that existed before the tidy ordering of the universe. I would argue that the latter is probably more dangerous, as there are a number of entities that can be described as "dark and sinister", while the idea of working with primal force is less common, and so more prone to error. I'll keep the real versus imaginary argument out of this, as it is being started in a new thread. Still, it can be argued that every magickal system is a work of the imagination. A cursory look at anthropology shows that. There are themes however, that run through all systems. While I have never worked within that mythos, I would guess that the relative danger of it would depend on the workers personal perception of the Great Old Ones. As for whether it should be done, why not? Magick is a highly personal event, it's doubtful that anyone's working with the mythos will have a negative impact on things in general. Depending on how a person approaches the Great Old Ones, the effect on them could be integrative or disasterous, and I would bet that the outcome would depend on the individual psychological makeup of the magician.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:51 / 28.11.03
I’ve done a fair bit of work along these lines, 2-3 years in a group dedicated to working with the Great Old Ones. Activities ranging from the full Dennis Wheatley black robes, incense, candles and bloodletting, through to crazed ecstatic possession rites in the woods at midnight. It was an interesting time.

As far as working with ‘fictional’ entities goes, if you call to the Great Old Ones – you do get a response back from something. There is definitely something there that responds strongly to being approached in these terms, something that is happy to be addressed as ‘Cthulhu’ or ‘Azathoth’.

From my experience of working with the Great Old Ones, they seem to be more primal and cosmic in nature, than ‘evil’ or actively malevolent. I think that some of the horror associated with Lovecraftian contact experiences comes from the fact that they are so far outside of human experience for us to be able to process what is happening. Their nature is so vast and irreconcilable to our human perspective that it throws up feelings of horror. When confronted with something so big and unfathomable, the psychic censor kicks in and pulls us back from the brink by flooding the nervous system with fear.

Working in these territories over a prolonged period of time, seemed to throw up something that could well be considered a very primal religion, worshipping what are essentially the primal forces that bind the universe together. Cthulhu could be seen as a personification of the unconscious, the ocean of dreams, the back brain, seat of reptiles, lizards and snakes, memories of dinosaurs in the DNA. Azathoth as blind, nuclear chaos, the unfathomable energy of the universe, communion like trying to relate human consciousness to the experience of a Sun going supernova.

You’re working very directly with the principles of the universe. If, say, the classical pantheon were Windows XP, working with the Great Old Ones is like DOS. You’re in there working with the hard coding of the universe. Heavy gear, but I began to find that the lack of an anthropomorphic aspect actually cuts both ways. You’re getting very close to some of the primal processes of things, without much of a filter. The Great Old Ones seemed like the processes themselves, rather than personifications of those processes, if that makes sense.

I had some extraordinary experiences and learned a lot from this area of work, but it began to feel a bit like magical tourism. Because the Great Old Ones are so cosmic in nature and so removed from human concerns, it can be very difficult to relate the material you receive to any obvious practical use. It’s high-risk occultism, with much potential for sanity loss, but it’s so large scale and abstract that it’s not easy to find a solid application beyond exploration into the unknown. Calling on the Great Old Ones to find your missing guitar would be like trying to run a cable from the Sun to light your cigarette. At the end of the day, I just wasn’t sure what to do with any of this stuff, as powerful and fascinating as it was.

I think there are possibilities for working practical sorcery with some of the lesser races, the Deep Ones, Shoggoth, etc… all of which is very much within the tradition of the Lovecraftian sorcerer, such as Jebediah Orne and his crew. I haven’t done much exploration into this side of things, but I can see how it might work and be very effective. There’s probably a lot of potential for things to go badly wrong though, so I'd certainly recommend a bit of caution to anyone walking into these areas.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
14:49 / 28.11.03
Great post, Gypsy!
Can't respond at the moment as I'm in the midst of Quark-mania. Good stuff tho'.
 
 
Quantum
15:05 / 28.11.03
Seriously tho', surely magic involves at some point, an element of risk? AoG
Yeah, I just wanted to post Orne's warning :-) but I am a pretty conservative practitioner compared to many I admit, I do cautious little-magic mostly. That may all change soon though...

I've never been tempted by Cthulhu magick before, partly because I played too much Call of Cthulhu RPG as a teen, where the point is to oppose the GOOs (and go mad and die of course) and partly because as Gypsy's excellent post mentioned, they don't have a lot of relevance to everyday life.
I'm not going to frown on someone else practicing Mythos stuff (except to say be careful) but my reaction is just 'Why?'. I love the cable-to-the-sun metaphor, very apt- the only working I can think of that would require a GOO is the destruction of the world, surely a Mi-go could do most things you would want, and as I haven't done much servitor stuff I've not been tempted by it.
As I say though, all that may change- I have a stack of HPL and some acid, watch this space...
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
21:41 / 28.11.03
Dude, Quantum, watch out, that's no' a good idea...

(Cut to Boy in a Suitcase out of his head on psilocybin in a cold sweat... "Don't look behind you, don't look behind you, DON'T FUCKING LOOK BEHIND YOU, there's, uh, there's something with tentacles there..." -- or is it just a white bedroom wall?)
 
 
Leap
21:59 / 28.11.03
Quantum -

If you want to do the GOO, start with deep ones and ghouls as they seem the easiest to socialise with! I would advise against the, erm, acid assisted route as, having played CoC for many years to, you may find a dodgy undercurrent surfacing and you REALLY do not want that to happen at the best of times, never mind when trippy!!!

[Private note: How about a PJP for trips! ]
 
 
Sobek
01:17 / 30.11.03

Hey, I am writing a book on this stuff. My intent is to have it stand out from the others by (a) not being formed as a "Necronomicon" and (b) being a bit more focused by presenting Cthulhu as a spiritual "role-model" or evolutionary map.

So...what you would you like to see in such a book that you think that other Lovecraftian magic(k) books may have overlooked? Those of you that are into this sort of thing, I mean.

Sobek
(trying to please the potential fans)
 
 
Leap
14:05 / 30.11.03
What would you be looking to include in such a book, what do you mean about ?presenting Cthulhu as a spiritual "role-model" or evolutionary map?, and what san loss would the book have?
 
 
jiltedchild
16:27 / 30.11.03
dont take acid and read lovecraft please, i got stupidly stoned once (god all the worst most boring stories in the world start this way) and read lovecraft into a tape recorder, i dont really remember doing it but i have never sounded so fucking terrified.
 
 
Quantum
09:52 / 01.12.03
Warnings of san loss duly noted, thanks for all your concern.
(BiaS, damn, those white walls hide all kinds of horrors don't they? Only thing scarier than a blank surface is a paisley carpet IMO, but if I remember to go outside and look at the sky I'm never afraid. Maybe that wouldn't apply if I've just been reading about horrors from between stars though..)
Sobek, have you read the Pseudonomicon?
 
 
illmatic
10:01 / 01.12.03
Sobek: I don't have any experience of Lovecraftian work but what I'd like to see in a book is the same thing I like to see anywhere - a healthy dose of anecdote and personal experience. If this leads onto new theoretical perspectives then fantastic.

Do you want to give us a bit more detail about what you have in mind?
 
 
Leap
10:04 / 01.12.03
My bedtime reading of choice, over the weekend, was “Shadow over Innsmouth” and “Dunwich Horror” (Not be confused with the Dulwich Horror – aka Lady Thatcher! ); good stuff

Going for Case of Charles Dexter Ward next
 
 
trouser the trouserian
10:47 / 01.12.03
Sobek

What I'd like to see is for someone to take a good run at Kenneth Grant's stuff - an 'objective' perspective (pref. from someone who's worked in that Typhonian 'paradigm') on what are the core themes in Grant's writings, how they relate to the Lovrcraftian Gnosis, and the whole fact-fiction divide as presented in the Typhonian Trilogies. Admittedly, I'm too lazy to do it myself.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
11:09 / 01.12.03
Heh... I'll do it if somebody loans me the books!
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
11:12 / 01.12.03
Oh, and 80 baboons to sacrifice while I work through the material
 
 
Quantum
12:15 / 01.12.03
I'm becoming an expert on fact/fiction distinctions, BiaS let's collaborate- I'll get the books, you get the baboons...
 
 
Quantum
10:07 / 02.12.03
Pseudonomicon, very good- I heartily recommend it to those of you who are interested in Mythos magic but haven't read it, it addresses many of the issues in this thread.
It's quite condensed because of it's slim size, but worth reading carefully. Hine takes a more Shamanic view of the GOOs and Mythos magick in general, which seems more appropriate than ceremonial approaches for the subject matter. Looking at Cthulhu as a Totem for example makes a lot of sense- although he's terrifying and inhuman, he can confer great power and insight. Compare to Bear as a totem- inhuman, dangerous, but powerful to those who dare supplicate to hir.
Although I haven't finished it yet, so who knows, the end may let it down (but I doubt it).
 
 
Leap
10:10 / 02.12.03
But what the hell is Cthulhu the totem of?!!

And how does he see Ghouls?
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:03 / 02.12.03
Quantum

re: Magic incantations in "The case of charles dexter ward". I've been flipping through The Necronomicon Files by Daniel Harms & John W Gonce ( review here and it seems the authors think it likely that Lovecraft was familiar with A.E. Waite's work (poor sod). Whilst they don't go as far as Kenny G. in making him an 'unconscious adept', they do think it likely that HPL did do some occult reading as 'research'. He probably asked Clark Ashton Smith for a few tips as well, as Smith was a lot more well up on arcane matters than he was.
 
 
Quantum
15:51 / 02.12.03
Leap- dreams, the sea, timeless patience.. remember Wendigo is from mythos and a totem, there's a lot of crossover.
Ghouls are like servitors in this view, or loa maybe- I'll get back to you when I've finished it!

AoG- I looked at my Eliphas Levi yesterday to compare the original to the Ward quote which directly attributes it to him, they're pretty similar in style. His source of inspiration for the incantations etc. was probably mostly GD but also incorporated Qaballah/Enochian directly and almost certainly some random nonsense from his fevered brain.
I think you're right, he did do some research but as an author, not for it's own sake- I didn't know the Waite connection, that's interesting.
From the linked review "..the Lovecraftian magic of Dr. Michael Aquino or Michael Bertiuax.." ooh, who're they?
*googles..checks out Ashton Smith on the way...*

Aquino seems to be a writer and member of the church of satan
Bertiaux seems to be a Voodoo priest
 
 
Sobek
20:37 / 02.12.03

Dr. Aquino is the High Priest of the Temple of Set.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
07:16 / 03.12.03
Derek Nimmo look-a-like Michael Aquino founded the Temple of Set - orginally as a breakaway grp from La Vey's Church of Satan. Aquino is a Lt. Colonel in the US Army reserve who apparently specialised at one point in psyops. He's written some Lovecraftian rituals, and also an essay "expedition to R'Lyeh" wherein he makes a case of R'Lyeh being Nan-Madol
Apparently some Temple of Set groups ('pylons' in TOS-speak) are dedicated to Lovecraftian magic. Any TOSers on the board who can enlighten us further?

Michael Bertiaux, he of Voudou Gnostic Workbook infamy was introduced to european occultists through Kenneth Grant's typhonian trilogies. He apparently runs a group of 'orders' under the Ordo Templis Orientis Antiqua.
There are some Lovecraftian elements in Bertiaux's Voudou Gnostic Workbook though I cannot recall exactly what - I guess I'll just have to send out a Hound of Tindalos to get me another copy .
 
 
Chiropteran
14:29 / 03.12.03
Jumping into things mid-flow:

Has anyone here had any experience with Dagon? I have long had a fascination with the HPL stories dealing with Dagon and the Deep Ones (surely that's a band, somewhere??), and always felt a frisson upon hearing or reading the name. But lately things have gone a bit further:

A couple times over the past year or so, I went through fairly intense periods where the name would rise unbidden in my mind, accompanied by a gut-droppingly visceral image/sensation of limitless depths and dark underwater void - with the usual vast "something" just beyond my perception. This would happen, for the most part, when I was least interested in exploring the phenomenon: typically in the office, or while driving. Add to this a craving for seafood (seriously); I felt an intuition that, in order to get closer - to respond (the sense of a "Call" was very strong) - it was appropriate for me to eat squid (in as unprocessed a form as possible), as well as shark if I could get it - with an intention of taking on the essence of these creatures in a totem-ish sort of way. Then I needed to get myself immersed in a natural body of water at night in order to hit "the next stage." I never got that far, but the suggestion was repeated loudly for many days.

Additional points: I have always been afraid of large bodies of water and "the deep" - the thought of something large being in the water with me is pure nightmare. Also, while I am a passionate reader of Lovecraft's work, I had never previously attempted any sort of Lovecraftian magickal working. And I am aware that there is a historical deity that is also named "Dagon," but some research suggested to me that I was clearly dealing with the Dagon of Lovecraftian fame, or some close equivalent thereof (Deep Ones and all).

Just tossing this out to see if anyone has had any similar experiences or some insight.

Oh, lastly I should make clear that while these experiences were a little scary, they did not feel in any way negative. There was peril, surely, but no sense of malevolence or "evil."

Thanks.

~L
 
 
Quantum
14:40 / 03.12.03
Lep, you should definitely read the Pseudonomicon, it sounds like you have a natural affinity for Mythos work, and what you describe fits the paradigm perfectly.

AoG- thanks for the info (hehe, TOSers, hehe) so THAT'S the Vodoun Gnostic Workbook guy, cooool...
 
 
Chiropteran
15:44 / 03.12.03
Quantum: Thanks, I'll give it a look as soon as I can.

~L
 
 
trouser the trouserian
16:09 / 03.12.03
Lep
you can find an e-book with some magical notes on Dagon - "Dagon Rising" here
 
  

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