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ONLY NICE THINGS
21:09 / 11.11.03
This thread has been in the conceptual works for a while, and is going to be sadly abbreviated, as two of the three teams I was thinking about have ceased to be utterly in the shit and have aimed more towards mediocrity. Fortunately, the squad of Tranmere Rovers is so thin and the forwards of Tottenham so inept that it can only be a matter of time before they are right back in it; already the gloss is coming off the Pleatmobile and victory in cup competitions is not going to help Brian Little if the draws keep coming in the league...

So, on to our main subject: Leeds United. Poor bloody Leeds United. All right, they do have a habit of spending large amounts of money on either poor players or poor human beings, and there is probably a massive and untapped mine of schadenfreude out there, but nonetheless, you have to feel sorry for them. How can this season be pulled around?

The departure of Peter Reid, probably a necessity despite the sad corollary that he is probably not going to get another Premiership job ever (although the blow will no doubt be softened by the £850,000 pay-off), means that Mills and Viduka might be returned to the fold. God knows, they could probably do with Mills, although I'm not sure that anything at this point will get Viduka back in the game; he's earning £65,000 a week to wait his contract out and/or force a cut-price transfer. If I were Professor Mac, I might well have tried to cash in on him a while ago, as he was prone to lack of interest even when Leeds were aiming for the Champions League. I suspect that any new manager will waste a lot of time and effort trying to give Viduka what he wants when what he ultimately wants is to play somewhere else.

It was observed that, as well as the 2 weeks' fine, Leeds should have given him a written warning, with a view to reacting to future misconduct by terminating his contract, Dennis Wise style. It's an insane thought - letting go of an asset with a book value of £10-20 million - but who would buy him the way he is playing at present, and what is he piling on to the operating debt every day?

And then there's the question of the manager. By the time this is posted, Paul Hart may well be in charge. It's an interesting choice - if he had been given some more cash to spend at Forest, and if they had not had such a profoundly mediocre opening to the season, he would probably have been well advised to stay. As it is, he can massively increase his salary, and in the worst case scenario he ends up back in the First Division, but you have to ask whether he can step up so quickly to go toe-to-toe with an apparently demoralised and rebellious dressing-room.

That's before we even get into the financial situation, which is so vastly knackered as to defy belief. Could Leeds of bankrupt, and have to start at the bottom? It seems massively unlikely, realistically, but administration must be a real possibility.

Meanwhile, as a little side note, Glenn Hoddle is apparently in the frame as a replacement to Paul Hart. Sweet Jesus. Obviously, this step down would be motivated by the realisation that no Premierhsip club would touch him with a Peter Reid, but even so - how on Earth can anyone offer him a role with any man-management element whatsoever. Head coach, yes. As long as he is not allowed to participate in five-a-sides. But manager? Of a young and potentially temperamentally vulnerable team? Lordy. So the curse of the white strip multiplies...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
01:21 / 12.11.03
argh. do you hate me? *sob*

(Having checked up on Tranmere) i don't think it's possible to put either yrselves or Spurs in the same 'FuckUp' category as us.(altho' it's not looking too healthy for Rovers...)

Because we've created a whole new special, economy-sized-covered-in-neon-lights FuckUp category all of our own.

Oh yes. (Racists? Rapists? Financial Suicide? The most Expensive Doorstop in the World? A million-pound squad playing like a Beezer Homes League brigade? We've got it all, a taste for everyone...)

I feel for Reidy, I do, as I don't think there's a manager alive who could turn us into a half-decent team right now. But he does have to take some responsibility.

Buuuut, I do think that we have to look at ourselves as a non-premier league side.

and act accordingly.

I *promise* I will return and say something poignant, interesting and incisive about the state of football, and its reflection of/creation of wider societal trends.

But not now, a vat of cyanide-laced White Russians awaits.
 
 
Old brown-eye is back
09:11 / 12.11.03
Harry and Jim, Harry and Jim, Harry and Jim, Harry and Jim etc
 
 
Hugh_DeMann
12:37 / 12.11.03
"but nonetheless, you have to feel sorry for them. How can this season be pulled around?"

Feel sorry for them?? Dirty Dirty Leeds? Surely you jest...
I'm with Ruth Gordon on the 'Harry & Jim' theme and glad that it was my Super Blues that hammered the final 6 nails into an already well completed (cheap) pine coffin that is about to be buried in the Nationwide Cemetary.
 
 
Char Aina
12:48 / 12.11.03
you didnt shower this morning, did you?
i can just smell the compassion oozing out of you.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:29 / 13.11.03
You'll like this, Haus & b.i.p. - from today's Popbitch:

Two years ago, footballer Jonathan Woodgate was convicted of affray, after a trial involving an Asian student who was savagely beaten in a racist attack.

Last weekend, Woodgate was at a fancy dress party in London with his girlfriend, RI:SE presenter Kate Lawler.

Jonathan's costume? He blacked his face up and claimed to be Samuel L Jackson.

We are pleased to report that he didn't beat himself up.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:15 / 13.11.03
seen it. jesus, just shoot me, please?

(back of the head, dark alley. mercy killing.)
 
 
Rev. Orr
20:38 / 14.11.03
Look on the bright side, platforms, the way things are going you could be just the player they're looking for shortly. Change 'em from the inside, that's what I say.
 
 
Char Aina
03:30 / 15.11.03
so wait, woodgate's dressing up black?
does he know?
is he okay with that?
 
 
Fist Fun
13:46 / 16.11.03
Leeds United keep adding to my party. The best bit being that if they get relegated then receivership beckons.

Perhaps fielding a team based entirely on their qualities as human beings isn't such a bad idea after all. They could hardly be any worse.

And in other football news Scotland not only beat Holland but they actually have a decent young player coming through as well. Wednesday is going to be such a pain.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:33 / 16.11.03
I'm eager to see the highlights of the Scotland match, and of course the Wales match - Scotland seem in MacFadden, Lee Wilkie, Barry Ferguson and Fletcher, and possibly in Kenny Miller, to have some players who could in a few years' time genuinely anchor a squad of enthusiastic but not so able players, much as Ryan Giggs, Craig Bellamy and Jason Koumas might develop into (if Bellamy can get over his injuries and general loutishness, which seems increasingly a forlorn hope).

Meanwhile, does anyone seriously believe David o'Leary is considering anytihng other than whether he can squeeze some treansfer funds out of Doug Ellis?
 
 
Sauron
07:52 / 17.11.03
Any thought to the colour the most succesful team in the history of European football plays in?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:07 / 17.11.03
I'm not sure one could put forward a thesis that all teams that play in white are currently playing apallingly, or have been historically awful, nor I think has this thesis been advanced at any point in this discussion. One could hardly have failed to notice the historical glories of Leeds winning the League Championship, Totthenham Hotspur winning the Double and Tranmere Rovers kicking ass and taking names in the Welsh Cup in 1936 and the Birkenhead Senior Cup pretty much passim. Not unless one were even in the annals of ill-informed football discussion a startlingly ill-informed football discutant.

Real Madrid have indeed frequently been successful at playing football, and they do indeed play in white, but their omission from the current discussion (of teams that are shit, a set that Tranmere have volted back into after the weekend) seems to suggest that they are not considered generally to be on the treatment table. I'm not sure what this has to do with the thread.

However, Real Madrid might be an interesting case. Does Fiorentino Perez' policy of "Zidanes and Pavones" have legs, or does it fail to acknowledge that the youth team is simply not turning out players of the required quality? More broadly, is the team going to suffer, as it did in Sevilla, from the absence of any players in positions Perez does not find interesting? Apparently, Carlos Queiroz quite simply had no fit full backs for that game, a situation even Manchester City would be unlikely to suffer (although one might argue that by playing Richard Edgehill they were doing the next best thing).

The case of Beckham is an interesting one in here. There is a proud tradition of players thought of as technically gifted but somewhat lighteight in England, Vinny Samways being a recent example, being respected in spain not for those technical gifts (which seem commonplace) but for a "bulldog spirit". Beckham seems to be slithering into a holding midfield role (probably for the best, given Figo's power in the dressing room), but is replacing Claude Makelele really the best use of him, and can he do it without having to curb the accurate crossing that his game was so often built around at Man U?
 
 
Sax
19:15 / 17.11.03
Haus, has your rather wonderful knowledge of the beautiful game ever got you out of a kicking in a rough pub? If not, please don't answer; I have a rather cherished mental image of you confounding some tombstone-browed meathead with your encyclopaedic footy nous and I wouldn't want to ruin it.

On a side note, Wigan Athletic on the season they made their kit predominantly white (with the more usual blue and, bizarrely, some green) they began to plummet south; now we're Premiership bound (read it and weep) blue is, of course, the colour.
 
 
Fist Fun
19:08 / 18.11.03
This thread has gone off topic. It should be used to laugh at,erm,I mean discuss the plight of Leeds United. They're a young team...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:09 / 18.11.03
...and, with preternaturally acute timing, Jody Morris is rearrested. It's all getting a bit bad, really...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
17:56 / 19.11.03
murrghgh.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:11 / 19.11.03
Oh dear. We broke BiP. If it's any consolation, I've just seen Wales crash out of the play-offs, an experience all too familiar from Tranmere's brief nosebleed period in the upper reaches of the Nationwide.

Although I thought the Sun were misstating the case by describing Morris as a "Leeds star". He was a free transfer who has failed to live up to his early promise and would not have gotten into a better side, as evinced by his failure to break into the Chelsea side even before it all got Russiatastic.

Meanwhile, more managerial shenanigans. It looks like Eddie Gray couldn't take over, even if he was wanted, and it also looks like there is now a clear time limit for finding another manager (or another caretaker, which would surely be one for the pub quiz). Gordon Strachan? It seems mad to leave a reasonably stable if pretty stagnant club for a club at the lower end of the table and so cripplingly in debt that there is unlikely to be any serious money available to reinforce a limited squad; it seems the mystery benefactor is only proposing to bankroll finding a new manager, not the club as a whole.

And speaking (as we were by implication) of overweight, overpaid and undermotivated strikers, is this finally the wend of the road for Duncan Ferguson, rather comcially enjoying perhaps has best spell in a blue jersey since rejoining from Newcastle? I'd probnably put him behind Rooney and Radzinski and possibly also Jeffers myself, but what can you do with him? Who would want a permanently crocked striker with a history of violent conduct? Apart from Southend United, that is.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
21:42 / 19.11.03
re morris, well yes, he's been pretty pointless/surplus for months.... even by our (plummeting) standards, he's hardly a star.

And god knows where the Strachan rumour came from. Witness the power of leeds fans' wishful thinking.... ditto all this bumph about some secret sheikh doing an Abramovich on us...

I wouldn't exactly call 1-0 crashing, Haus. You were weak in the first half but but there was some sprightly attacking play later on from Giggs, Koumas and Earnshaw.(why wasn't he on much earlier, btw?) Mind you, you escaped from that penalty... And I guess you could argue that players of the calibre of Giggs and Speed should have risen more to the occasion

Has anyone else been watching the 'The Money Programme' series on football's finances? very interesting and depressing listening to an economic overview of the 'industry'.

Hey, reckon we could tempt Colly away from Southend?

yeah, i'm joking.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:00 / 19.11.03
Collymore and Viduka could make up the most recalcitrant strike force ever...

Earnshaw is sparky, isn't he? I'm not sure why we went for Johnson playing behind Hartson insteead of him - I suspect it was Mark Hughes showing caution, but Earnshaw is IMHO a more effective player, especially against slow defences. Ah well. Ours not to reason why, kind of thing.

It has put more fuel on the fire of my crush on Jason Koumas, though. Such a lovely player...
 
 
Fist Fun
19:07 / 20.11.03
There might be something in this white shirt thing after all. Six nil. Ouch. I blame Leeds United.
 
 
Bear
19:32 / 20.11.03
That was terrible. All the worse living in good old England...

I also blame Leeds Unt.
 
 
Pemulis / Dee Vapr / Hungrygho
09:31 / 21.11.03
Hmm. One has to question whether Leeds will perform the task that West Ham failed to acheive last season, considering the abundance of talent they had at the time (Cole, Carrick, Defoe, Johnson et al). Sorry, Bengali, but I do gain a measure of joy of seeing the little crushed faces of my colleagues every monday as they try the splutter the words "Good.. Result.. again... Darren" and retreat back again into their cubicles. It's a measure of the good grace of the local Leeds fan that they seem to hold me know malice when I make my hated alleigance known (Chelsea).

Still. Hmm. Division One beckons despite everything. Would put a healthy amount of money on it.

As an aside - Bryan Robson - Bradford City - WTF???
 
 
The Falcon
12:39 / 21.11.03
Lee Wilkie?!

LEE WILKIE?!?!

No. Big Silky is a confidence player, and will probably never be the same again. And any defender that can make suicidal mistakes against my team, Aberdeen (read, 'shit',) as Chopper W. did during an attempt to break both of young Chris Clark's legs last season isn't really going to be able to hold up at a level that is, I think, somewhat beyond him. Good as he was last Saturday.

*sigh*
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:25 / 01.02.04
Time to revive this thread as things go a bit funny for Leeds in a slightly different direction. There now seems to be a genuine possibility that they will be able to find new backers, and thus be able to renegotiate their debts from a position of comparative strength. The players have agreed, possibly shamed into doing so, to take a wage deferral, and it looks clear that they will at least complete their fixtures. Meanwhile, they have managed to make it to the end of the transfer window without losing any more of their crown jewels, confounding reports that Smith, Robinson, Milner and Viduka might be out of the door. (Unless Viduka has made a last-minute escape to Middlesbrough..)

However, even these players may not be enough to keep them in the Premiership. They *really* need to be picking up points against mediocre opposition, not losing 3-0.

Possibly their failing, ultimately, is the sheer imbalance in their team - Ferdinand and Woodgate have just not been successfully replaced. Matteo is being used in midfield to shire up those failings, Kilgallon is raw, and Duberry has never really convinced since that exciting start for Chelsea way back when. Without the assurance of a firm central defence, the midfield can't play with confidence and the strikers are starved. It's not good.

And if they are relegated? Players like Smith, Viduka, and Robinson will have to be sold - they will insist on it, and the club will have to offload them cheap just to get them off the wage bill. But what about a player like Seth Johnson? No other premiership club, or First Division club, is going to pay him the wages he is getting now. So, he has no incentive to leave Leeds, even if they want him after such a fizzling career at Elland Road. And his wages would be a real drain on the club. Seen in those terms, Reid's decision to sign loan players rather than free agents actually makes a degree of sense, altohugh nothing else much seems to..

(Sorry, BiP. Oh, and welcome back)

Oh, and on one of our side-threads - who thinks Wales should go through instead of Russia after Titor Yegov's suspension for drugs? I'm torn - I would love to see them go through, but it does seem tough on the Russian players who weren't using performance-enhancing chemicals. Then again, maybe a good head of peer pressure would be useful to keep dressing rooms clean, or cleaner - you know, you may not take drugs but if you turn a blind eye while somebody else does you may lose your winner's medal...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
11:57 / 02.02.04
actually, in transfer terms, it could be worse (in football terms I fail to see how it could be) as we've held, inexplicably, onto smith and viduka(now we'll see if he deigns to play now he's got no clubs to impress) and have Robinson till the end of the season.

BiP(-Proud Winner of the 2004 World Straw-Grasping Championships)

(and Haus, thanks so much for the welcome back.)
 
 
nedrichards is confused
15:13 / 02.02.04
Re: Teams in white, does this mean that England's Euro 2004 campaign is already doomed? If so are we finally approaching saome sort of unified Persil theorem on why teams that play in white from these isles are shit?

As for Leeds centre backs, how much did you get for the combined forces of Woodgate and Ferdinand? Close to £40 million as I remember. It seems slightly absurd that Duberry is the replacement for that sort of Real Madrid like cash.

Also, is Bruno Cheyrou the biggest surprise this Premiership season? (only players who were shit before count, youngsters breaking through are not allowed). He seems to combine the ugliness and bigness of heskey (thus the bruno bit) with the delicay and finishing skill of such other renowed Frenchmen as Henry, Saha, Trezeguet and, er, Steve Marlet.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
15:27 / 02.02.04
Miliseconds after I hit post and picoseconds before the transfer deadline Spurs sign another small, quick striker with an eye for goal. Will the world explode in multicoloured unhappiness in Defoe and keane play at the same time?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:49 / 05.02.04
Robbie Keane and Jermaine Defoe woudl be a bit like pre-glamour Chelsea's fantastic line-up of Mark Stein with Gavin Peacock playing behind him - an attacking so small as to be able to slip between the molecules of the opposition goalkeeper's VERY BODY.

Ahem.

Leeds have indeed managed to hold on even to Robinson, and losing Bridges seems survivable, or perhaps just makes their plight no worse - would Gray have had many champions if he had dropped Smith or Viduka and lost, in a single game between now and the end of the season?

Not sure about Cheyrou - is he really the new Zinedine Zidane, or just enjoying a Heskey-like flurry of form before the dull greyish blanket of mediocrity descends once again?

Meanwhile, two thing have made me happy. One is the progress of Tranmere Rovers to a hotcup clash with (ahem) the mighty Swansea City, beating Premiership clubs and local rival Bolton Wanderers on the way. The other is the recent alliance between Leicester City and Kingfisher East Bengal, which shows massively more imagination than pooey Standard Liege...
 
 
Bed Head
14:11 / 07.02.04
So, nothing to do with the plight of poor Leeds, but still vaguely kit-related, and a happier subject anyway: does anybody else think that Cameroon’s current kit makes them look like comic-book superheroes? In a good way, I mean. They look fantastic, man. Especially Rigobert Song. I’d never noticed before how fabulously svelte he is..

There’s only one reason for FIFA to be making such a fuss about these clingy skin-tight superhero costumes: all the lost revenue if they catch on, because you can’t very well sell replica kits like these to flabby, beery-gutted football fans. Thank God.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:32 / 08.02.04
Oddly, it was recently suggested by big Sepp Blatter that women's football could be made more popular by the use of tighter shorts. This seems counter-intuitive, but possibly only because of horrible memories of the genital bacon-slicer effect visited upon English teams in the 1980s. Bad time for shorts...

And it might be rather cruel to force Jardel, say, to ply his trade in a slinky one-piece, as opposed to a steam barge.

Meanwhile, Leeds just can't seem to get a result. Tranmere *can* get a result, that result being 1-1, which seems to be all we ever get these days, and Spurs have just gone *mad shit* - 7 goals scored and 7 exchanged in the last 7 games? Have they considered getting Keegan in?

All very peculiar. Can Leeds still pull it off? Who else do we fancy for the drop? Man City? Would that be tragedy or hilarious schadenfreude? Will Charlton stay in 4th despite the loss of Parker? Will Liverpool be beaten out of European contention by Bolton? Will Tranmere lift the cup?

Well, no.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
17:35 / 11.04.04
had to dig this up. whatthehellsgoingon?

Just when I've (almost,probably,nearly, notatall) got my head around inevitable relegation, we win back-to-back for the first time all season. 5 goals in two matches, 2nd win against blackburn(HA!) brings us level on points with them.

I want Alan Smith's babies. Truly.

Would that be pretty?


Wolves are gone. Praying it's not us, but not convinced. Hoping, think it could be Blackburn. Which would be sweet

ahghghg. Too stressful for words.

But bless dear Eddie:

"We've got games at home and we should make Elland Road a fortress from now on"

Elland Road. Fortress. Ye-esss.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
18:14 / 11.04.04
Oh, and have to admit that I'm not that up on Tranmere atm(mid-tableness seems to be order of day, which i'd be ecstatic with, obviously), but the Spurs managerial fiasco seems to be endless and a 3-1 thumping by Everton isn't particularly good news...

On more football generalism, is the SPL a joke? Celtic seem to be cruising to *at least* a double. What of the often-mooted 'C&R join EPL' plan?
 
 
Bed Head
18:34 / 11.04.04
Leeds: ha, told you so. Although I reckon you can save your Shining Moment Of Absolute Truth for the Portsmouth game and then cross fingers Chelsea ease off at the end of the season. Which they probably will, what with The London French having wrapped it up this weekend. (Gah, etc)

But. Alan Smith’s surely got the best lips in the league. Like a peroxide Ian Brown. Who scores goals.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
12:43 / 12.04.04
The benefit of hindsight seems to show that although Cheyrou was having a Heskey-esque flurry of good form before returning to reassuring mediocrity Milan Baros is actually really good despite being knitted together from the body parts of other, better Czech footballers. And Pompey fans wondered where Patrick Bergers left foot had gone. IT REMANINED IN MERSEYSIDE YOU FOOLS attached to Lurch up front. Aside from that it's looking like a depressing retreat of last year for Liverpool given that we're going to have the 'who's got 4th spot' as the last game in the season *again*. Unlikely goal source to defeat us this year will be Laurent Robert (and/or Olivier Bernard) before Robert Mugabe buys Newcastle and turns them into the new Chelski.
 
  

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