Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Conversation >

Liquid shit thrown at WTO riot cops in Cancun

Page: 1(2)

12:16 / 26.09.03

and in war, you would think long and hard about whether the boche really deserved that tommy steel, wouldnt you?

12:19 / 26.09.03

sory, mr j, i missed your post.
yes, i agreee.

if you go to a protest wearing black and throwing shit, you should expect to meet some resistance.

13:35 / 26.09.03

'Nesh, i shall say this once only: stop taking the piss or I shall leave Barbelith. And you can keep your dirty tartan jism out of it - and me - thank you very much. Just 'cos you think a cop wee-weeing on me is sexy does not make that incident a paradigm of community policing and you know it.

Ever since I get mugged by a black guy, I can hate niggers as much as I want and brush accusations of racism lightly aside... because I know about black people, I know about them like you never will!

Now Jack Fear, that's almost Godwintastic and certainly defamatory. Though i have been verbally abused, threatened, suffered 2 (attempted) muggings, and 2 unprovoked assaults from black persons in my three years living in a predominantly black area, to the best of my knowledge it hasn't made me racist. I still have black friends, collegues and lovers, and judge folk as people, not as skins. Racism is a pigment of the imagination and all that.

As for the 'cops are people, too' meme, well, I have cops in my family and I myself have worked answering emergency calls and know what it's like to be on the end of three 'fuck you pig we're gonna come and fuck you up' type calls before breakfast. But I still believe many cops to be both stupid and biased. And anyway, shit always gets thrown at cops at the more spikey demos, usually in the form of manure from their own horses. It's a tradition, like turkey at thanksgiving or the aroma of pine needles at Christmas. And I for one would be sorry to see such a tradition eroded.

it sounds suspiciously like gut-level, reactionary, knee-jerk bullshit, to me.

I never said it wasn't! Sympathy, and lack of, seem to me to be in the realm of emotion, not reason. Why do you guys keep expecting me to apologise for being human, huh? "I am what I am, and I can't be no ammer." I'm still having nightmares from the last demo and it was weeks ago! (Though I note the police are now the ones in the dock for using the terrorism act on those of us unlucky enough to get caught, ha fucking ha. Winning that case would be far better than seeing 'em get shit flung at them.) But anyway, stop picking on me, all of you, I think I've got PTSD and that's not funny.

13:40 / 26.09.03

Come on Bill! White wee-wee is sexy!

14:11 / 26.09.03

It's a matter of taste.

(off topic) I take it you're still, er, coming on the demo tomorrow then? (/off topic)

15:14 / 26.09.03

On shit-flinging:

my guess is that including anarchists in the equation in the above picture probably is unnecessary. The main body of protesters in Cancun consisted of subsistence farmers and other peasants who have their income, lifestyle, homes and lives threathened by actions of the WTO.

A lot of them (can't remeber the amount) were from India, mainly from the Karnataka State Farmer's Union (KRRS). They have a very long tradition of protest against both genetically engineered organisms and global trade institutions like the WTO. Often their totally pacifistic, Gandhian protests have involved disgracing or "de-masking" the object of protest. Laughter-demonstrations, with thousands of people laughing at the absurdity of an institution, for instance. Burning Monsanto crops publicly. And yes, covering the entire facade of Monsanto buildings in india with sprayed-on cow shit.

Of course, these farmer's organizations tend to be marxist-leninist or maoist, and my guess is that the KRRS includes these tendencies while keeping a general attitude of gandhian practices.

Not dreaded anarchists.

15:40 / 26.09.03

Ever since I get mugged by a black guy, I can hate niggers as much as I want and brush accusations of racism lightly aside... because I know about black people, I know about them like you never will!

Have you ever been mugged by a black man Jack?

in the last couple of posts I've read of yours I've almost notice a sort of convenient use of "race" in the forming of hypothetical examples in an arguement... kid in somila with his legs blown off being another.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or anything but I've been finding this er, cavalier use of "race" concerning, and I wanted to draw your attention to it in the even it was unintentional. It may well be you decided to use it in this case to draw a more emotional attention to the flaw in broad-stroking all of those people pictured in riot gear as cops above all else. In which case you've done so effectively.
I did however want to point out what I'm noticing about this abstract use of "race." This thred seemed as good a place as any.

That aside, I agree with both you an Ganesh in terms of the pit-fall in such a broad generalization.

Bill Posters:
Were you refering to the Oakland (california) docks protest and police assault of about 6 months ago when you said...
(Though I note the police are now the ones in the dock for using the terrorism act on those of us unlucky enough to get caught, ha fucking ha.....?

15:41 / 26.09.03

...but we don't know what the situation was, do we? The cops could have raided a bunch of non-threatening protesters and started beating them, and the shit-throwing could have been in retaliation! Shit like that happens!

...if it was unprovoked, I feel sorry for the guys with shields. I can't hold a grudge on the Mexican police, even though they've extorted money out of me in the past.

16:39 / 26.09.03

Bill Posters: Were you refering to the Oakland (california) docks protest and police assault of about 6 months ago when you said..."Though I note the police are now the ones in the dock for using the terrorism act on those of us unlucky enough to get caught, ha fucking ha".....?

No Mr Tricks, I hadn't heard about that one. I'm UK based, and it was an anti-arms fair demonstration / action, details and links to press articles all in this thread here should you be interested. Also, there's this i've cut'n'pasted:

"The Metropolitan police used anti-terror searches to intimidate, disrupt and deter protest at DSEI. Liberty will challenge these police tactics in the high court judicial review on the 2nd of October, 2003. To show support, arrive at 9am outside the Royal Courts of Justice on The Strand." Liberty's site is here. Basically, we have the audacity to question the use of the term 'terrorist', and accompanying legislation, with regard to a bunch of predominantly peaceful protestors like myself.

16:57 / 26.09.03

It may well be you decided to use it in this case to draw a more emotional attention to the flaw in broad-stroking all of those people pictured in riot gear as cops above all else.

Ding ding ding ding!
Johnny, tell Mr. Tricks what he's won!

17:41 / 26.09.03

the stakes are low if I'm winning by stating the obvious JACK...

still, I'm curious about the use of race in dialog and discussions by enlightened (presumably liberal) "whites."

maybe a pet peeve or nitpicking especially in this thred... perhaps food of another...

So... what to I get!?

17:45 / 26.09.03

BILL:
word on the Oakland incident here.

18:22 / 26.09.03

Bill: i shall say this once only: stop taking the piss

Surely you were taking the piss? In. The. Face. From. A. Cop.

(Sorry)

19:00 / 26.09.03

Tricks: Didn't reckon I was talking about "race" per se, but rather about the Us-and-Them mentality—of which racism is an extreme form; a knee-jerk aversion to the cops is, I would argue, a manifestation of the same mentality, applied to another target. Both involve a shutting down of empathy, a tendency to judge individuals first-and-foremost according to their (racial / religious/political / socioeconomic) affiliation, an assumption that all members of a particular group are (a) all the same and (b) somehow less than human, a tendency to judge all individuals of a particular affiliation by the actions of a minority...

That's what I appear to be saying, because that's what I'm saying.

I'm not sure what you're driving at, actually, but your vague insinuations are pissing me off, frankly. If you've got something to say, come out and say it.

If you believe my rhetoric is inappropriate, or reveals some sort of hidden racism on my part, muster your arguments and let's thrash it out—perhaps in a Head Shop thread: that seems the right place...

You win a year's supply of Rice-a-Roni (the San Francisco treat), a case of Turtle Wax, and a month's worth of Afro-Sheen (with the Don Cornelius seal of approval).

20:20 / 26.09.03

Well, do forgive me for pissing you off Jack... not my intent.

I understood where you were going with your use of the race analogy and like I said I'm curious about the use of "race" in such cases.

I'll assume the ...I've been mugged by a black man.. was rhetorical at this point. do tell if you actually have... or not.

I'd certainly bring up the discussion in the HEADSHOP the moment I've got a much more substanciative view/arguement to post. At this point what I have is a curiosity based on the vague occurrences I've notice it IRL and online (as in the case that's currently derailing this thread).

So I'll be waiting for my turtle wax. But will pass on the Rice-a-roni (I've can cooking a much better pot of rice for ages) and the Afro-Sheen...

15:11 / 27.09.03

Thanks for the link, Mr Tricks... nasty though things can be here in the UK, it serves to remind all of us activists on this side of the pond how damned easy, relatively speaking, we have it.

still, I'm curious about the use of race in dialog and discussions by enlightened (presumably liberal) "whites."

I still think bringing race into this is basically a variation of Godwin's Law.

Also, I think M Tricks is quite right to suggest (as, IMHO, ze is) that the fact that White Folks often invoke racism in such conetxts is a dreadful irony, just as is the fact that male (and thus sickeningly privilaged) male Barbeloids often compete with one another in debates about feminism to see who's the most feminist. Many women here would prolly feel that they would at least knew where they stood if us guys went back to arguing about who has the biggest dick, though far be it for me to speak for them. But let's face it, there are fewer women here than men, and very few black posters, at least as far as I'm aware. PC'ness is often perverted into a form of point-scoring amongst white liberals, and that's a normal and common behavioural trait of the Barbelith hippie-crit, one which often makes me furious.

Jack, a final point: some might say that there is a fundamental difference between blacks and cops, namely that one is not given a choice about being classed as black. As far as I am aware, cops do not spring from the womb fully-grown and decked out in riot gear. There is just a little itsy witsy bit more individual agency and choice going on in the latter case, isn't there?

06:02 / 28.09.03

Okay, now if these guys had carried a bucket of liquid shit down to the shops and lobbed it over the first cop they saw, this thread might be relevant. Because then you could say, well, you can't just assume all cops are bad, he could have been a nice guy who'd never hurt anyone and even agreed with a lot of what the protestors think. But no, they threw it at a specific group of riot cops during a protest where riot cops were hurting a lot of people. They didn't throw it at cops in general. They threw it at particular cops and it seems pretty good odds those particular cops were busily fucking people up at the time.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

06:04 / 28.09.03

What he said.

This is, by the looks of things, a confrontation, rather than an attack- both sides have specific goals, each wants to prevent the other achieving them. The cops are using clubs and shields, those guys are using a bucket of shit (or whatever it is). There's still room for debate on the ethics or whatever, but it kind of alters the dynamic more than a little, wouldn't you say?

08:28 / 28.09.03

But no, they threw it at a specific group of riot cops during a protest where riot cops were hurting a lot of people.

Do you have any proof of this? The riot cops in that picture all have their visors up, and there are multiple people who seem pretty calm about being less than a foot away from them. If the picture contained a pack of uniformed thugs beating innocent people with their batons I'd be with you. But it looks like they were just standing around until some random prick dumped feces on them.

However, if I'm wrong, please correct me.

10:50 / 28.09.03

A pic says a thousands words.

LJ Crimethinc community

LJ Guerilla News community

12:05 / 28.09.03

But it looks like they were just standing around until some random prick dumped feces on them.

As I pointed out in the LJ crimethinc thread that Rage posted, everyone looks like they're "just standing around" in stills from demos, unless they're actually caught running or hitting someone.

16:38 / 31.10.03

Basically, we have the audacity to question the use of the term 'terrorist', and accompanying legislation, with regard to a bunch of predominantly peaceful protestors like myself.

We're terrorists. It's official.

Bugger.

18:49 / 31.10.03

Page: 1(2)