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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Carnivale

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00:35 / 23.09.03

Is anyone else watching this?

As I said in my summary:
Carnies, the Dustbowl, Depression and Good vs Evil. And that dwarf guy who's in all of David Lynch's movies. On HBO.

Plus a bit more besides....

I usually don't love TV shows. This is the first one in a long long time where I've been too drawn into the plot and the action to feel the need to snark about inconsistencies or bad dialogue -- even though there are probably both. I am way too intrigued, and after just two episodes, found myself desperate to know what happens next.

01:52 / 23.09.03

I so, so badly want to see this series, but I haven't got HBO. I'm this close to seeing how much it would cost me, I long for their shows!

02:25 / 23.09.03

This show is great. I heard some of the best mind(s) behind Deep Space Nine are behind this show. And there isn't a character I don't like. Does anyone want to place bets on which one of the two are the (good/evil one) I honestly think the boy's the one that's gonna end up evil. I trust that suacy, blind mind reader.

14:10 / 23.09.03

And Imp, you got a good look at the Gekko dude? I saw a picture of him on a poster for the show, he looks pretty Gek-like

Keith, like a scientist

14:27 / 23.09.03

yeah, this stuff is great. i love how slow and and vague it is. i confess i'm not too clear on the tarot significance of the show yet...there appears to be some sort of tarot symbolism/tarot "game" being played, though.

i'm curious about which is evil and which is good, though. it seems to be following some sort of Revelation plot line, though, with the priest being the role of the Anti-Christ (gathering followers, etc). The boy looks like he will be used, but is ultimately good. It seems too obvious, though, so, you're probably right, they are reversed.

14:38 / 23.09.03

I'm going to be really disappointed if it comes down to something as simple as the Young Man being Good (or Evil) versus the Preacher being Evil (or Good).

I forgot to mention yesterday how freakin' cool the opening credits are. I love the way they twist in and out between Depression era photos, Renaissance-style paintings and tarot cards. It's very clever. (And I think the Renaissance-era style may be relevant at some point in the not-too-distant future)

Does anyone know how many episodes it's supposed to go for? I heard twelve, which seems astonishingly epic for a series like this. And also means I'll miss the entire climax of the show, since I'll have to go back to London before it's over.

Keith, like a scientist

15:19 / 23.09.03

yeah, 12 episodes is correct...this might be only a first season, though...which seems odd.

i agree, the opening credits are fantastic.

and I, too, will be disappointed if it's just Young Good Boy vs. Older Bad Preacher

i did read something about this series, though, that they say the 2 main characters don't meet for the entire first season...

15:36 / 23.09.03

young boys in renaissance art = death because hades was the youngest of the three brothers who overthrew the titans

15:37 / 23.09.03

oh, and this show sounds good

Matthew Fluxington

16:07 / 23.09.03

I couldn't make it through the first episode. I was tired, but also completely bored by it all. I just can't get into this. Carnies, midgets, preachers. The "magic" and "good vs. evil" stuff really loses me too. I think HBO is making a big mistake - they're programming is at its best when it's true to life and extremely modern, going with a fantasy/period piece show is really not playing to their strengths in the least.

It's only one season (13 episodes) so far, but if it is successful (which it probably won't be) it'll be back just like all of the other HBO series .

17:18 / 23.09.03

Strange to see "The Kurgan" from the first Highlander movie as the preacher.

13:48 / 24.09.03

I got over the Kurgan thing years ago when he played the main character in Earth2. He looks soo different now.

I just saw the first episode last night. Im still no sure. I like the look of the show. Something about it reminds me of O Brother Where Art Thou? I dont like the main character but I like the fact that I dont like him. The tarot reader is so far my favorite character now Im just waiting for the midget to start talking backwards...

14:47 / 24.09.03

Just to throw this in: the preacher, Clancy Brown, provides the terrific voice of Lex Luthor on the Superman and Justice League animated shows.

17:11 / 24.09.03

Well that just took all the make belief out of my superhero cartoons.

19:17 / 24.09.03

Dude! Clancy Brown is a preacher in the Dust Bowl? Hell I'd see it for that alone, much less the freakshow/circus factor.

Damn. Now I have to scrounge up pennies to get cable or somethin'.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

01:01 / 01.12.03

SPOILERRRRRRRRRRRR!

GAH!!
GAH!

Management....is...the FOETUS???

Christ. The entire season was a prologue, wasn't it? Now I've got to watch the whole damn thing again.

Oh, and way to change that one note in Jon Brion's score to Magnolia to avoid a lawsuit.

Other than that, creeeeeepy personified.

05:21 / 01.12.03

Umm... I had gotten the impression that this was a limited series of 13 episodes, successful or not.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

09:10 / 01.12.03

Damn. Really?

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

11:29 / 01.12.03

I've been hearing rumblings of a 2005 season two (in typical HBO style), and all the web documentation points to "season" as opposed to "series" finale.

Matthew Fluxington

11:40 / 01.12.03

Yes, it's a series, following the same format as Six Feet Under and The Sopranos. They were a bit cagey at first because if the ratings weren't high enough, there wouldn't be a second season. They weren't going to make any promises which may let people down, but yeah, it's a modest success and so it's going to continue.

12:26 / 02.12.03

In a recent interview on the HBO site, one of their supervising producers spilled the beans that the thing is plotted out to at least season 3.

Keith, like a scientist

12:11 / 28.03.05

Has anyone been watching this fairly spectacular second season? Care to discuss with spoilers flying wantonly?

Last night was the season finale, and it was quite amazing. Curious what others think.

Keith, like a scientist

20:45 / 28.03.05

Birdie! I know you were into this...
I'm going through withdrawal!

22:47 / 28.03.05

I loved this series when it was shown in the UK on FX289. They have series two but it hasn't started yet. Really looking forward to it!

Disco is My Class War

04:17 / 29.03.05

Carnivale was on here last year, but the network only said it was a mini-series (!!!) and I had to go online to discover that yes, the total lack of plot resolution has something to do with how that first season was a prologue.

Although I was hooked by the weird good-vs-evil plot, the sexual politics and relationships among the Carnies really made it stick. Like, for example, Clea DuVall and her various crushes. Also, I don't think it's as simple as "one will turn out to be bad, one will turn out to be good." We know the preacher is evil, but how bout his sister? Likewise with the blind German dude.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

07:54 / 29.03.05

So... is it worth forking out for the DVDs? From the little I've heard about it, and this thread, it sounds right up my street, and apparently fairly "slow", so watching 'em all in a row might be the best way to do it.
What say you, Barbelith?

12:20 / 29.03.05

I'm holding out on the dvd's for the time being personally. I adore the show, have seen all of both seasons and loved every moment of them but there's no confirmation on yet whether a third season is going ahead and I don't really wanna spend all that money if the show's about to be cancelled.

The end of the second a few nights ago was superb though, so much fell into place and at the same time has set up what looks like a really good story line with Sophie and Ben.

Apparently, Daniel Knauf, has said online that the whole thing is plotted out for 6 seasons and that it will work as 3 books (kinda) each being 2 seasons. That certainly seems to tie in with what's happened so far.
Another theory I've seen put forward is that each of these 'books' would be set in a different time period. The first being the mid 30's, the second being somewhere between the 40's and 60's and the third being modern day in the here and now. I've no idea if there's any truth to that but it's definitely an interesting idea which would, presumably, mean regular cast changes all round. Given that though, is it even feasible to make tv that way?

Keith, like a scientist

12:36 / 29.03.05

yay! responses!

Stoatie, yes, it's worth it, I think, but as sparky says...there is currently no confirmation on a third season. But the first two seasons are fantastic, especially this last season, when the revelations and turns started kicking into gear.

I read about the 6 season plot...I hope it happens. 2 seasons equal one "book" in his mind, and I like the theory that they are in different time periods....however, I dont' think it will go past Trinity, as that is the "end of the age of wonder" and the beginning of the "age of reason" in the story's mythology.

It's really crazy the detail that has gone into this show in terms of a entire mythology. Knauf has names for all the different types of people (Avatars, Vectori, Usher, Omega, etc.).

Yes, the end of the finale the other night has setup a potentially fascinating storyline between Ben and Sophie. But...since it seems that there are those here that haven't seen everything, I don't want to spoil it.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

15:25 / 29.03.05

I have to admit, the idea of a Six Season Story sounds very promising, but I was bitterly disappointed in the Second Season. Every thing that was cool and mysterious about the first season seemed rote and unsurprising in the second. I guess I'm so bitterly disappointed because I was so very into the first season. Inhaled the whole thing in one weekend and could not pause between episodes. This season just seemed rote, a lifeless parade of "Creepy" "Imagery" and by the numbers plot progression. All the mystery was gone, and the answers left were pretty uninspiring.

Shall we retire to the Deadwood thread?

Keith, like a scientist

16:42 / 29.03.05

wow. except for a few missteps, I thought the second season only improved on the first season by giving us some answers and setting up the main storyline. i loved the slow progression of the ben/sophie story this season. my favorite part. and it only served to make the finale all that more bittersweet.

sad to hear you didn't like it as much.

i can't get into deadwood. i keep trying to watch and i just don't give a crap about anyone on the show. i like that the guy's name is swearengen, though. that's comedy.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

18:20 / 29.03.05

(Swearingen was his real name in real life, actual history-wise. And, not for nothing, Deadwood's got the most complex characters on television. Have you seen all the episodes?)

Um, on topic, on topic...

That plan to stop Clancy Brown, no spoilers, was completely idiotic.

21:10 / 29.03.05

That plan to stop Clancy was completely pointless you're right, but it was also I believe, quite in keeping with the calibre of the characters who hatched it.
Samson is the only one amongst them really with any degree of intellect (of note) but even he tends to excel when he has to react to situations and bluff things rather than when he has to plan ahead. That's what I reckon anyways.

(and to jump on board with the off-topicness here, Deadwood I love too. Swearengen is by far the best character on telly at the moment. (Apart from Woo, maybe - Here. Sweargun. Cocksucker.))

Overall, I find Deadwood faster, easier, far funnier and often more entertaining than Carnivale but it's the latter that I prefer overall. I just find the whole thing fascinating.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

22:00 / 29.03.05

See, I definitely found Season One immensely fascinating and, like I said, the prospect of this continuing on in such a unique timeline is also very interesting. But I think when Ben started off on his adventures in search of Scudsy, a fork was made in the road and I think the attempts to make the Carnivale interesting without Ben's presence took up too much time and didn't really allow for all the great subtlety (Fetus In Jar) of the first season because the storytelling was stretched so thin. The developments for Season 3 seem like that might be taken care of, as there are now stronger ties between Ben and the Carnivale. But there were some folks taken off the board that can't be replaced and will be sorely missed. I just could care less about the Cooch Girls. Someone like that Stone Dumb but Lovable Son Of Snakelady (what was his name, this is embarassing) was endlessly more interesting and a complete non-entity this season.

I can't really vouch for Samson's cleverness, but when you're crafting a climax that had been set up for two seasons I was expecting better. And don't get me started on the shoehorning of that Christ Imagery into the Climax's Climax. I was all "Oh, come on, he's not going to hide...oh, no way, well, The Voice Of Ford can't be that stupid...PFFFFF." The Christ Imagery had me at the Pilot.

11:56 / 31.03.05

I still haven't seen the final two episodes of season one, which I missed due to coming back to England before the show was over in 2003.

I keep picking up the DVD collection and putting it down again. Stoatie, you should get it and then I can borrow it off you... ;]

Keith, like a scientist

20:33 / 07.05.05

apparently this has been cancelled according to a source close to the production...

it's more or less official, HBO hasn't made an announcement, but the cast seem to know.

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