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Revolution Revisited - Revolution, Society, and Message Boards

 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:05 / 22.09.03
Revolution is a word which Barbelith is almost drowning in at the best of times. It's also a word which has been sacred to followers of Marx ever since he proposed the notion of Historical Materialism: the Marxian world view which suggests that human history is a series of stages divided by revolutionary moments, and culminating in Socialism. For Marx, each stage of human history was defined by the economic relations therein, and the revolution represented to violent toppling of the ancien regime by a new class installing itself in the top slot. Hence Feudalism was to be overthrown by the Bourgeois, and Capitalism in turn would die at the hands of an informed and matured Proletariat - a motivated, aware entity created by the oppression by Capital.

This picture of revolution made it a thing of structural inevitability. Lenin wrote that revolutions are not made, they come. Curiously, however, Lenin was also responsible for trying to make one - he and his Bolshevik party misled a Russian peasantry desperate with famine and bloodshed, and attempted from their despair attempted to create a (pre)Communist state in which cadres of revolutionary elites could compensate for the absence of a mature Proletariat and people could be educated to the benefits of Socialism without ever having to pass through the intervening Capitalist stage.

Any number of people have tried the same trick. Mao and the Chinese Communists took a war of self-defense against Japan and created from it the slow-burning Chinese Revolution which culminated in the 'Cultural Revolution' - one of the most bloody episodes of modern statehood, in which thousands were slaughtered in an attempt to edit China to conform to Mao's 'sinified' Marxism. The French Revolution, on which Marx based his analysis, isn't nearly as clear-cut as he'd have you believe.

In fact, it's very hard to find a cold, hard 'first case' which demonstrates what a revolution is or should be. And since the lifespan of nations is longer in most cases than that of people or even theories of political action, it can be a little hard to say when it's late enough in the day to judge the success or failure of a revolution, or even whether it deserves the name.

Looking at the name, there's an incredible aspiration: not rebellion or coup d'etat, but revolution. The overturning of the world, the establishment, not of a new guard, but of a new paradigm. Popper and Kuhn's work on scientific change gives a lead in this direction: revolution is change of a fundamental kind.

The problem obviously is that everyone is a product of their time, and so too are the ideas we seek to actualise in political action. My personal picture of 'revolution' at the moment seems ambitious to me. I believe that there are several genuinely revolutionary thoughts - examples:

Non-violence - history is the map of the aggressions of states and peoples against one another. Even the internal social histories of countries and communities carries this sense. We strive to avoid it and we strive to protect ourselves from it, and the consequence is more of the same, because we are prepared to use the means of violence to assure our peace. It is contradictory and futile. It is also possible, however, that pacifism is by now impossible - that any culture which genuinely eschewed violence or at least power would be erased. Non-violence, therefore, has to be a personal choice - something else of which I approve.

Science and Medicine - the possibility of advances in longevity and life-preservation - from the bizarre and far-fetched Alcor, which might best be described as a 'lifeboat option', to the more realistic goals of biotech companies seeking cures for age-related infirmities, I believe that science has the possibility to transform our world. Again.

I'm not sure I believe that anything short of this level of radical change can produce 'revolution'. It's certainly true that there are smaller changes, strands, which could provoke considerable upheaval - the alliance of the developing world at Cancun proves that. But while that may produce a more equitable version of the world, it probably won't produce a radically different one.

The next question is whether that's a good or a bad thing. It's possible that genuine revolution is a terrifying disaster. It's also possible that minor revolutions such as new political arrangements are doomed to spiral into violence, or at least to replicate the situations which spawned them.

Barbelith itself is, in a sense, a minor revolutionary arena. Tom's attempt to generate a self-moderting community, with power distributed, has in a way become a prolonged and fascinating experiment in society and communities and their governance, of which we are all a part. One way of looking at this board is as a model for the real world. It's not impossible to imagine transfering the lessons of Barbelith to real life, certainly the dilemmas we face here are familiar. Looking at Barbelith this way, the project is an attempt to find a way of self-governing which is both free and safe - and if successful (and scalable) this would be a significant political advance.

So is it possible to generate a system to handle governance? Or is the lesson of the last decades that systems - the WTO, the World Bank, the Soviet Communist Party, US Constitutional Democracy, and so on - cannot control the ability of individuals to restate them in such a way as to defeat their aims?

What really counts as revolution? And when is it necessary or even legitimate (Lenin's October Revolution, for example, may have been a monstrous crime against the fledgling democratic government arising in February 1917)? When is the risk inherent - for most revolutions do not provide what they promise - an acceptable one?

And what does all this mean for Barbelith, and for the individuals who compose this community?
 
 
Lurid Archive
14:31 / 22.09.03
Not really sure what you are asking, Nick, and I doubt I'll do your opening post justice but I'll be the first to pipe up for the predictable cry of evolution over revolution. In particular, I'll respond to this

It's certainly true that there are smaller changes, strands, which could provoke considerable upheaval - the alliance of the developing world at Cancun proves that. But while that may produce a more equitable version of the world, it probably won't produce a radically different one.

So I spent last weekend with some people from my family's home town in southern Italy, which they described as "Third World". An exaggeration, perhaps, but less so than you might think. It is within living memory that child labour was commonplace and that the mafia was the extent of the law. Hell, I'm not sure they have running water available all day to everyone - they didn't when I was last there. But these things are changing. The place is clearly progressing, with access to a welfare system, the rule of law and so on. Some of the people are travelling and enjoying the benefits of being part of europe.

If I look around me in Spain, it is easy to forget that this country has had democracy for less than thirty years. In Catalunya, people now have the right to speak their own langauge. The change is huge and though you might put this down to the "revolutionary" event of Franco's death, I suspect that the influence of surrounding europe has as much a role to play.

My point is that we shouldn't dismiss the gains and strengths of our society in mature western democracies, which have often increased slowly and gradually. If you but look on your doorstep, you'll see that these slow changes have produced some radical outcomes over the course of a few generations. Even in the UK, can you really describe the changes over the past century as other than radical? Sure, its too slow. But it is a mistake to let impatience dictate our politics.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:45 / 22.09.03
Quite so - but does that mean that the notion of Revolution - of violent (either physically or figuratively) social change is either outdated or undesirable? What is the Revolution people talk about? If Evolution is doing the trick, does that mean that Revolution is a dangerous dead end?
 
 
SMS
14:56 / 22.09.03
One of my friends mentioned a while back that he thought it was ridiculous that people could be good at doing taxes. I tend to agree with him, and I wonder how much revenue the government would lose if they stopped changing the tax laws every few years and let the population actually figure it all out, so that everyone could be good at taxes. There's an idea that it doesn't matter if a new tax code is better than an old tax code if the population doesn't have time to figure out the new one.

Revolution on a larger level can be seen the same way. For instance, we now have a good store of theories on international affairs when it comes to the nation-state, but there's talk of the nation-state structure of the world coming to an end, anyway. If it does, even within the next couple of centuries, then the truth of many political theories will probably remain untested, and certainly become irrelevant.

I think this kind of sense is the reason that revolution can meet so much resistance: I'm just now getting the hang of living in the old world; now you're saying it's going to be replaced with something completely different.

As Arthur Dent said,
"As soon as I reach some kind of definite policy about what is my kind of music and my kind of restaurant and my kind of overdraft, people start blowing up my kind of planet and throwing me out of their kind of spaceships."
 
 
grant
20:47 / 22.09.03
Mao and the Chinese Communists took a war of self-defense against Japan and created from it the slow-burning Chinese Revolution which culminated in the 'Cultural Revolution' - one of the most bloody episodes of modern statehood, in which thousands were slaughtered in an attempt to edit China to conform to Mao's 'sinified' Marxism.

Pedantic note: that's, as far as I've read, a really simplified version of what actually happened. (I've written a little about that period here.) Short version: Mao tries to create a Five-Year-Plan for China, it fails catastrophically, he's shunted out of power... but then launches a propaganda-based popular movement against his own former colleagues -- and is buoyed back into power, floating on the blood of thousands of intellectuals and "counter-revolutionaries."

The Cultural Revolution might be an interesting model to use, though, since it was populist and progressive (in something similar to the sense you're using "science and medicine" up there).

It also might have a more direct relationship to information -- especially as distributed on the web -- because it was, in the beginning, a propaganda game. The whole shebang started with a harsh review for a play. Think about that. The play was supposedly an allegory for Mao's misdeeds during the Great Leap Forward (the failed Five Year Plan), and the theater critic for a big newspaper in Shanghai was buddies with Mao. And castigated the play. In such a way that everyone was talking about it.

That became a social movement, then that became, well, street gangs beating up people with eyeglasses and lynching elderly Confucian scholars. A popular call to action.

It might also be worth noting that most historians say the Cultural Revolution only ended when Mao died -- he was the rock star that held it all together.

I'd say the moment it became an actual revolution, though, wasn't a political one. The politics were beside the point. It was more like an intellectual fashion, a social thing that resulted in a (minor) political change. It was like the nation of China changed its mind about things, and the body kind of got dragged along behind.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
13:04 / 24.09.03
Revolution sounds like it should be a fully realised political system: Trotsky’s “permanent revolution”. The word suggests something is revolving, going through a full rotation or turn of the wheel. But the conventional images of revolution are about The People “taking the power back”: just the one turn of the wheel, with everybody accessing areas previously forbidden them.

Whether we advocate or practise evolutionary or revolutionary means, that wheel is going to turn all the way round in time. Without any revolutionary change, the wheel keeps on turning, slowly and steadily. Individuals can see the change if they can peer down on the whole wheel from a mountaintop or a helicopter but otherwise they’re conscious only of the tiny incremental shifts the wheel makes. Each individual is making the changes that matter to them and it’s happening at a human pace.

Revolutionary change is evolutionary change accomplished in one sudden swift movement. It’s the roulette wheel spinning wildly, stopping in a new place but it’s always a gamble where that will be. It requires the passions of the mob to be inflamed or Gladwell’s “tipping point” to be reached in the transmission of a new idea before there’s sufficient social force applied to spin the wheel very suddenly and sharply in one direction or another. Individuals can easily feel the force of this revolutionary movement, whether or not they are themselves engaged in the process. The speed of change is definitely not “human pace” and anyone not running fast in the right direction, with their wits about them, will be crushed or left behind. All revolutions are violent juggernauts essentially.

I don’t think the Barbelith is revolutionary in this sense. I do think it encourages lateral “outside the box” thinking and contributes to the germination and spread of some new ideas. Our numbers are too few, and perhaps insufficiently influential, for us to be able to take these ideas forward to the tipping point. We might not like where we ended up if once we had “tipped”. Or we might be lucky.

I have a distinct aversion to “revolutionaries” of the rabid and dedicated kind. They are the theorists and rhetoricians who, before any revolution they seek is roaring ahead, have all the answers off pat, reducing every caution or question to black and white certainty. The individual human being matters not a damn to them. Ze is an irritant to the revolutionary because ze must fit neatly into the revolutionary’s theoretical framework or be found unworthy. Once revolution is under way, the Revolutionary moves swiftly to control the panic and chaos they have stirred up by installing a Reign of Terror. This is the pattern we have seen repeated time after time throughout history. In little time, the Bourbons and the Bonapartes or new proletarian czars with fine, imported Cuban cigars are running things again.

Plus ça change, c’est la même chose

I am definitely a gradualist. Call me a cynic.
 
  
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