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The demonization of America?

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We're The Great Old Ones Now

15:27 / 25.02.02

With you there. It's been said before in this thread (by Crunchy, I think) that the US is, of course, no one immense monolithic thing, but a network, and hence our use of 'America' is really a rather unhelpful shorthand for various different cultural and political entities.

17:29 / 25.02.02

Hey, their may be hope for America! Michael Moore's brand new books "Stupid White Men," is the best-selling hardcover non-fiction book at Amazon.com.

04:43 / 26.02.02

...did a thread ever get posted about recommendations or ideas relating to world policy? With all of the "demonization" going on in the thread, I'm set to be curious on what people around here think might be a few strides in the right direction...

Also in reaction, I have to say that a very good point was brought up...basically...reactions to problems never seem to be thought out well enough by the US in general. Many times it seems that the policy that is enacted in oftentimes ignored or never revisited after it has been considered. I think if you want to get your place as the "leader", you need to maintain (however difficult) a position that is consistant and comes from not being afraid to ask the rest of the world how things should be approached.

13:12 / 26.02.02

Cherry - why are you loathe to use the word "patriotism"?

Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?

13:19 / 26.02.02

Or loath? Or even loth?

We're The Great Old Ones Now

13:50 / 26.02.02

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" etc.

20:19 / 26.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Slim:
There are also a hell of a lot of religiously-inspired terrorists operating in that area that have nothing to do with the US. Look at the terrorist attacks by Pakistani groups in an attempt to destabalize India.

There are non US-funded terrorists, yes. The important note is that the current target "evil" one was funded by the US, and therefore the US should actually acknowledge this publicly and blame themselves more than the Afghans, Iranians, North Koreans, etc.

(Thread Rot: Has anyone seen Rambo III recently where Stallone fights alongside the Taliban?)

11:23 / 27.02.02

quote: The important note is that the current target "evil" one was funded by the US, and therefore the US should actually acknowledge this publicly and blame themselves more than the Afghans, Iranians, North Koreans, etc.

Im not sure that I agree with this. Certainly, the US is culpable to some degree for funding the Taliban, say. But they clearly didn't want or expect the September 11th attacks. To say that they are to blame, is a far too extreme position in my view. It obscures some of the real issues and is easily dismissed as anti american by US supporters.

I think that the real issue in Afghanistan is that the US - with a genuine grievance - acted without the support of international organisations. The "war against terrorism" is really a war on those who oppose the US as US opposition to any kind of international law (to which it might itself be subject) is blocked.

12:06 / 27.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Barry Auckland:
(Thread Rot: Has anyone seen Rambo III recently where Stallone fights alongside the Taliban?)

No one has, as the Taliban didn't come into power until long after the Soviets had left, and the US stopped sending money in by the shovelfull.

18:07 / 27.02.02

quote:Originally posted by MJ-12:

No one has, as the Taliban didn't come into power until long after the Soviets had left, and the US stopped sending money in by the shovelfull.

My mistake. Posting without sources.

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

15:19 / 03.03.02

Rambo was fighting with the Muhajadeen (apologies for the misspelling). However when the war started in Afghanistan both America and Britain supported previously pro-soviet forces. Sure this is old news for you all but bin Laden was a finacier and recruiter for the Muhajadeen and worked closely with the CIA against the Russian presence. One of bin Laden's biggest problems with the US is that after the fall of Communism the CIA pretty much dropped him. Basically in it's early days the American Govt. helped finance Al Quieda (again apologies for spelling).

I really do think this a amtter of scale and openness. Americas is no better or worse than any other 1st world country. Certainly no better than Britain. We had our Vietnams (though we kept them quieter and never apologised for the atrocities committed), we went far enough to finance terrorist organisations on our own soil. The differance is as I've said the scale that America operates on (I believe very well illustrated by Tom earlier in the thread) and the fact that they keep on getting caught at it (I mean they televised Vietnam). I do think their is a tendancy to demonise America especially amongst the liberal pseudo-inteligentsia but they are no better or worse than any other nation.

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