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The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Volume 2 Number 6

 
  

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Aertho
15:32 / 17.09.03
Can someone explain to me the scarfless picture of Mina Murray on the back cover? The date sets it at 1891, which makes me think it was either AFTER League v2 or AFTER Dorian Gray smashed his own painting.
 
 
penitentvandal
15:51 / 17.09.03
Er...isn't league volume 2 meant to happen in 1898?
 
 
FinderWolf
16:55 / 17.09.03
Out of curiosity, the quotes on the back covers are from the actual original non-Moore written texts, right (except when they're Moore-created characters like Campion Bond in Vol. I)? So I guess that the Mina quote at the end of this issue is from DRACULA?
 
 
Aertho
17:15 / 17.09.03
So if her neck was cool in 1891, then she's probably talking about Dracula, as that (I assume) was just prior to that date. It was then she met Dorian, then vol1? When does v1 take place? 189...?
 
 
Ganesh
01:44 / 18.09.03
Of course, if it's a painted portrait, she could simply have had the artist portray her with unmarred neck.

Intrigued to find mention, in the Explorers' Diary thing, of the Leap Islands. Disappointingly, however, these did not appear to be a modest utopia of dignified "woodlore folk" mercy-slaying their "worthless" with melee weapons, but a "more solid and real continuation of the wraith islands of Megapatagonia". Ah well.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
11:35 / 18.09.03
Still no explanation of the no legs thing, I note. Surely it can't just be an error? I mean - it is rather obvious...
 
 
Ganesh
11:46 / 18.09.03
Isn't it just that his legs are in shadow - and the falling leaves in the foreground?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
17:30 / 18.09.03
it may be his legs are in foreshadow.

look cumon to fuck - it's a cool illustration. he has not had his legged chopped of. it's a graphic.

that's the problem with annotations.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
17:33 / 18.09.03
it may be his legs are in foreshadow.

look cumon to fuck - it's a cool illustration. he has not had his legged chopped of. it's a graphic.

I'm a bit bored with the league now - that was gallus - loved it - but bored of moore's fascination with fiction teddy suits.

More league. Nah. they're dull. Hyde wasn't, but the rest are.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
18:39 / 18.09.03
WHAT A GREAT BIG STEAMING PILE OF POO WITH GIANT FLOATING TURDS ON!

No, only joking. I loved it. I'd always been worried about how Moore was going to fit in a climactic battle in the last issue but in a way now I have the full thing i really like volume 2.

Questions: Why is Nemo so against germ warfare?

How did the Government know it was going to work?

The mirror writing was when the Martian heard Hyde speak, 'can you hear me in there?' Of course, now i'm going to have to go back to issue one and see if that works for the rest too.

As for the legs thing, I think the colouring is probably slightly borked, and should a darker shade. Either that or Mina's taken them with her as a keepsake while she goes and hangs out with the women. Ay? nudge nudge. An island of women ay? Phwoar!
 
 
The Natural Way
13:08 / 19.09.03
Shut up, fickle yawn.

Nemo probably thinks germ warfare's cowardly.

In answer to one of the stupendously silly questions clogging up this thread, the martian adventure occurs weeks, if not days, after the League's run in with Moriarty. All happens in 1898.

So easy to check up! Annoying!

Damn, I hate the waiting between books..............
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
00:23 / 20.09.03
Ha fucking ha.

?

I honestly hadn’t meant it as a “Ho-ho, I tricked you,” kind of joke, moriarty.

…But on reflection, I can see how it might have been taken that way.

I’m sorry. Forgive me?
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
00:36 / 20.09.03
Mr. Hyde in LOEG was certainly a charming character. But I note a somewhat revisionist quality to his portrayal. As far as I remember, in the original story, the Dr. Jekyll/ Mr. Hyde dichotomy wasn’t psychoanalytical. Neither was it an Incredible Hulk-style “don’t get me angry” kind of thing. Rather, Mr. Hyde was a supernatural horror – the physical manifestation of spiritual evil. The dinner table chat in LOEG #5 seems to be inspired more by the many psychoanalytical commentaries on Stevenson’s short story than by the short story itself. The radically Cartesian metaphysics of Stevenson's concept have been rejected for something a bit more Freudian. Frankly, I found the original Cartesian version more thrilling.

The LOEG version of Nemo doesn’t strike me as all that faithful to Verne’s concept either.

My criticism is *not* "Moore has no right to re-envision these characters". My criticism is that the particular changes he’s made leave the characters less exciting. Wouldn’t LOEG be more fun with a Nemo that wasn’t so whiny and highly-strung?

…Hmm. Thinking about it, Moore seems to have gone out of the way to avoid presenting anything overtly supernatural in these stories. No flashbacks to the Count. Hyde re-interpreted as Freudian science-fiction. Talking animals the result of Dr. Moreau’s experiments.

…I liked Mina’s “oh that poor man” line – while in the distance, out of her sight, Hyde has been munching on the eyeball of a still-conscious alien.

And “an intermission now follows” – LOL! Moore must have been cackling at his PC as he wrote that.

…The quickness with which everything returned to normal seemed entirely realistic. One moment Bond’s sweating like a pig, squirming in fear. Next he’s back to his usual smug self. “It doesn’t matter. We’ve won.” The war ends like a bad dream. Everyone can breathe again, and go back to sleep.
 
 
penitentvandal
09:05 / 20.09.03
Well, the third volume is supposed to be all supernatural, isn't it? Mina and Allan vs the Great Old Ones, flashbacks of Dracula, et cetera. Also, that 'Allan and the Sundered Veil' thing was pretty freaky.

Maybe that's what happened in the last panel. The Old Ones stole Allan's legs, and now he wants 'em back...
 
 
jjnevins
15:09 / 21.09.03
"Mr. Hyde in LOEG was certainly a charming character. But I note a somewhat revisionist quality to his portrayal. As far as I remember, in the original story, the Dr. Jekyll/ Mr. Hyde dichotomy wasn’t psychoanalytical. Neither was it an Incredible Hulk-style “don’t get me angry” kind of thing. Rather, Mr. Hyde was a supernatural horror – the physical manifestation of spiritual evil. The dinner table chat in LOEG #5 seems to be inspired more by the many psychoanalytical commentaries on Stevenson’s short story than by the short story itself. The radically Cartesian metaphysics of Stevenson's concept have been rejected for something a bit more Freudian. Frankly, I found the original Cartesian version more thrilling."

The "supernatural evil" take on Hyde is just one of many different interpretations of the character. There is no one canon explanation for Hyde; one of the wonderful things about RLS' tale is that it admits of a number of different explanations, from the Freudian to the evolutionary. Moore isn't engaging in revisionism; he's applying one of the many different interpretations of Hyde that have been floated over the decades.

"The LOEG version of Nemo doesn’t strike me as all that faithful to Verne’s concept either."

Given Verne's conception of Nemo as an anti-English, anti-oppressor Indian prince--you need to read Mysterious Island as well as 20,000 Leagues to get the Indian part--I'd say that Moore's Nemo is one hell of a lot more faithful to Verne than most other versions.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
20:38 / 21.09.03
Well hey, Moore's Mina doesn't have much relationship to the character in Dracula, and his Orlando genderbends a lot more than Virgina Woolf's (presuming I'm not mixing my Orlandos) so I think there's not much point worrying how accurate they are. I seem to remember Peter David writing an issue of The Hulk about the relationship between Banner and the Hulk and comparing it to Jeckyll and Hyde, though of course Hulk was supposed to be the modern version of the story...
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
02:41 / 22.09.03
I don’t know, Jess & Lady.

One of the delights of reading Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, for me, was coming to the book with a head full of psychological treatments of what the story was about (split personalities, id versus superego, etc.), and finding instead a straight-up supernatural horror story.

I shouldn’t use the word “instead”, of course – the supernatural text doesn’t preclude a psychological subtext; and, in any case, if you insist that Henry Jekyll’s own account of his work, in his final(?) confession, was erroneous or even deliberately deceptive, then you can eliminate the supernatural element entirely. Let me re-emphasise that I’m not accusing Moore of “cheating” or “taking liberties” with Stevenson’s story; and I really don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade with some kind of petty attempt to circumscribe the permissible interpretations of the narrative.

Nevertheless…it may be just that my taste is particularly superficial…but I got a real kick out of the “mad science” account of Jekyll’s experiments that he himself leaves behind in the short story. I shouldn’t really have described its metaphysics as Cartesian in my last post; as far as I remember, Jekyll discovered that the body is “plastic” – a manifestation, or function, of the spirit – and when the spirit is altered, a new body appears. The dualism of Descartes seems to be present, but the relationship between the spirit and the body is different.

I remember when I first read Descartes, feeling giddy at the realisation that the philosophy that had made modern science possible was so bloody mad! I don’t mean “patently mistaken” mad, I mean bizarre, freaky, “Bride of Frankenstein” mad! “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde” gave me the same kind of kick. Like the religious neuroscience of Machen’s “The Great God Pan,” or the delirious, hellish biochemistry of his “Novel of The White Powder,” where, as in Stevenson’s tale, we’re told of science effecting the physical manifestation of the evil component of the spirit – except here in a separate body – and as a preliminary to sexual intercourse with that component! (At least that’s what I think Machen is getting at – my Latin isn’t up to much.)

Psychological readings of these stories are often fascinating; but I retain an affection and a taste for face-value craziness at the narrative level. We live in an age where many Roman Catholics will boggle when you explain to them what’s supposed to be literally happening in their Mass – where "magicians" will talk about their ritual operations in terms of psychotherapy – where the gods and goddesses have become mere “archetypes” or “symbols”…not really real.

So, to come back to Dr. Jekyll/ Mr. Hyde and the nature of his/ their condition – I relish some ambiguity about the matter; but explicit, Freudian-style deconstruction of Hyde’s evil just saps some of the fun out of it for me.

*Whew*

Now, as far as Captain Nemo is concerned…

The Nemo I have in my head from Verne’s writings is somewhat choleric, and possibly mad, but all the same a rather sympathetic – perhaps even heroic – figure. He embodied Verne’s sensibility and political views, to a degree (at least that’s the impression I get, particularly from “Mysterious Island”, but I don’t know anything about Jules Verne’s biography, to be honest).

In LOEG, on the other hand, a great deal of the humour is at the Captain’s expense – he gets humiliated in various ways, has to play the native man-servant in Volume 1, does the whole “Odd Couple” routine with Hyde in Volume 2, and he splutters and complains and bugs his eyes out all the time, so that you’re expecting him to any moment exclaim “Ten billion blue blistering barnacles!” or call someone a “bashi-bazouk!” and then slip on a banana-skin and fall on his behind. I’m exaggerating, I know; but when I think of Nemo in the LOEG world I see him sitting on the bed that’s too small for him in the boarding school of Vol. 1, his arms folded in a huff! Without denying Nemo’s genius and ability, Moore deconstructs his “madness” – portrays it as mere madness, as a rather mundane mental dysfunction.

I imagine that Moore’s socialist beliefs prevent him from embracing Nemo whole-heartedly, and that’s fine. The LOEG version of Nemo is often genuinely funny (especially if you play the “Odd Couple” theme tune in your head whenever he’s hanging with Hyde). It’s just that my dumb, fan-boy heart would cackle with glee to see the old, romantic version of Nemo fighting in the League.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:50 / 22.09.03
I didn't find Nemo to be a comic relief character in either volume - sure, he was unintentionally funny on occasion but I didn't think it was excessive. Although I do feel that Nemo is the only character in both volumes who didn't get developed very much (every other character got a spotlight moment or moments where Moore focused more on what makes them tick and what makes them interesting).

Moore's Hyde works if you believe that there is truly no 'Evil' with a capital "E", just misguided, miserable bastards, some of whom are just really angry and really good at killing. This goes back to Moore's "where is evil, in all the wood? Is aphid evil? Is tree evil? Is soil evil?" bit in SWAMP THING. I see this as Moore's take on why people get fucked up. Also, Hyde is like a genetic experiment gone wrong; he's like a wretched, deformed bastard child with no parents and he was a scientific mistake, really. And he knows it. (And Moore's Hyde definitely seems at least in some way influenced a tiny bit by Hulk, esp. in the 'becomes the monster when he's angry or agitated thing' - in the book, Jekyll had to drink the potion each time, right? I need to read that book...)

But to each his/her own - everyone's going to read things differently and have different opinions on this, of course.

Oh, and I think Moore doesn't use a PC - he still uses a typewriter, from what I've heard, and shuns computers and the Internet for the most part.
 
 
sleazenation
14:07 / 22.09.03
Moore doesn't really do technology at all from what i've heard - doesn't even have an answer machine...
 
 
DaveBCooper
09:48 / 23.09.03
Hmm, not sure about the non-tech aspect of things - the From Hell debate was conducted by fax, there was a comment from Karen Berger waaaay back in the earlyish days of Swamp Thing that Alan had bought himself a new word processor, and in the photo on the back of the recent George Khoury profile book Alan's sitting in front of a Packard-Bell monitor... I understand he doesn't use the internet, mind.
 
 
_Boboss
09:56 / 23.09.03
yeah he states definitely the winking cursor on the screen in the last chapter of voice of the fire. shame on thee if heeve not read voice of the fire
 
 
FinderWolf
12:59 / 24.09.03
I'm waiting for the new published version of VOICE OF THE FIRE to come out from Top Shelf later this year. I think it's a hardcover, not sure...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:06 / 04.10.03
No legs thing = I read it as Quatermain being past his sell by date, about to get blown away with the rest of the autumn leaves. Other than his head there's no definition to the body. Empty, ready to drift off.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:15 / 04.10.03
And having just written that and looking at the panel again, I've got the lyrics to Forever Autumn out of the musical going round my head.
 
  

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