BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Pedantry (or 'The Self Rotting Thread where NMA asks for trouble.')

 
 
Not Here Still
13:52 / 30.08.03
From Bartelby online:

pedantic

SYLLABICATION: pe·dan·tic
PRONUNCIATION: p-dntk
ADJECTIVE: Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules: a pedantic attention to details.
OTHER FORMS: pe·danti·cal·ly —ADVERB

SYNONYMS: pedantic, academic, bookish, donnish, scholastic These adjectives mean marked by a narrow, often tiresome focus on or display of learning and especially its trivial aspects: a pedantic writing style; an academic insistence on precision; a bookish vocabulary; donnish refinement of speech; scholastic and excessively subtle reasoning.



So I've been fascinated recently by watching the ongoing Hutton inquiry saga, and I've started to think about pedantry. Much of the important parts of the inquiry's revelations, it seems to me, hang on minor, pedantic points about language and actions - the dossier was not 'sexed up' it was 'presentationally analysed' etc.

Which got me thinking of the wider question of whther pedantry is a good or a bad thing. Sometimes, nailing down the details of an issue and picking up on the slightest details is vital; sometimes, its overuse can kill interest in the very subject under discussion.

It's also something which dogs Barbelith; certain posters are routinely accused of being pedants, an accusation of pedantry can kill a thread stone dead as a flame war starts up, and pedantry has both illuminated and entertained on threads here.

So is pedantry a blessing, a curse, or a bit of both?

ps: The sub-title of this thread is in recognition that people can get drawn into personal battles when discussing subjects like this. Please try and avoid this, or take it to the Conversation. And I'm also aware that some funny fucker will probaly go through each post with a fine toothcomb; again, if this can be avoided, it'd be nice....
 
 
bjacques
15:30 / 30.08.03
A pedant writes:

It's a blessing when picking away at a tiny fact that is really founding premise of a major questions such as, well, war and truth.

Another pedant writes:

Etymologically and entomologically, the Dutch word for a nitpicker is mierenneuker, or "ant-fucker."

A third pedant writes:

Am I and the immediately aforementioned pedant really the same as the pedant named at the beginning of this post?

Mmmmmmmm, coffee...
 
 
bjacques
19:43 / 30.08.03
Thread-killa'!!
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
17:44 / 31.08.03
It's always someone else who's being pedantic. Just as it's always someone else who's being patronising, pompous or arrogant. It's one of those things people only ever attribute to themselves if a) they're paranoid about appearing so, and want to preempt others, or b) they're paranoid about appearing so and wish to ingratiate themselves with others by being 'aware of their faults'. But it's remarkable how many people who, to hear them talk, are very humbly aware of or acknowledge being pedantic but who will descend into sullen silence or defensive posturing when someone breaks through the bluff and points out that they actually suffer from being a pedant.

Also, pedantry is only annoying when someone else is doing it. When you're doing it, it's a rational part of daily discourse. And everyone else just suffers from sloppy thinking. Which someone should correct. And if not me, then who?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:38 / 31.08.03
I'm with Jack on this one. When somebody else does it, it's pedantry, when you do it it's pellucidity.

"Pedantry" is also one of those easily-thrown accusations, like the ever-popular "rhetoric" or "hypocrisy", that can be used as an emotional sound effect largely divorced from its meaning - that is, when one says "you're being pedantic", one is saying "I do not like the way this is going/this sort of discussion/you". Since it is largely a subjective term, it's very hard to defend either the accusation or the accused.

Where an accusation of pedantry is often more demonstrably valid is where it is pulling a discussion away from its subject. For example, one could argue that in the Hutton Inquiry the niceness of the distinctions being drawn are attempts to drag the line of questioning away into a discussion of the difference between "sexing up" and "presentational analysis" rather than into the actual facts of what happened.

However. The Hutton Inquiry also highlights one of the important aspects of what can be identified as pedantry. Being arguably pedantic, I would offer that Webster, the dictionary Bartleby appears to have consulted, is not a terribly good source; the Concise Oxford offers as a primary definition of "pedant" a person who insists on strict adherence to formal rules or literal meaning at the expense of a wider view. In the case of the Inquiry, and of law in general, there are a set of formal rules which have accreted and grown massive over time with precisely the aim of locking down literal meaning. In those terms, for example, it becomes terribly important whether what happened could be described as "sexing up", because if it can the BBC was justified in supporting Gilligan's report and if it cannot then Gilligan's report should not have been stood by. One might note further that the discussion largely fails to take into account the fact that the term was used, IIRC, in a brief statement at the beginning of the Today programme and had been dropped by the time the main report was delivered - thus, by insisting on it as the locus of its complaint, the government was failing to address the wider view of how the event was reported. Since people's careers (and in one case so far, people's lives) are hanging on these questions, however, a degree of obsessive precision in definition seems necessary and desirable - just as a distinction between murder and manslaughter, although the victim remains as dead, has significant repercussions outside the act of definition itself.

Which means, probably, that pedantry, as defined, is *designed* to be a bad thing - nobody has ever been called a pedant with admiration, to my admittedly limited knowledge - the sort of scrupulous examination often accused of being pedantic may or may not be; the problem is, it is rather hard to identify with a neutral eye what is or is not pedantry and what nice, neat and ultimately necessary distinction.

Personally and generally, if somebody seems to me to be being pedantic, I try to assume that I do not yet understand where they are going or what point they are making, and see where it goes. The temptation not to do this when an opinion is not one's own, and thus the path murky, is of course often great. That comes down to how far one is ready to trust other people, and how much or little one feels a statement or argument should admit of scrutiny.
 
 
Quantum
13:12 / 01.09.03
I'm an ex-pedant (sometimes not so ex) and I think motivation matters quite a lot. If someone is just anally retentive and wants to get things right, or has a particular bugbear (e.g. double negatives "I ain't done nothing") then they deserve sympathy. If they are appearing pedantic by insisting on accuracy and clarity (e.g. in an academic journal) then fair enough. If they're derailing a conversation to try and prove their intellectual superiority, they deserve a fat smackdown.

The converse is also a problem though, plenty of times people say to me 'Well, you knew what I meant' after I successfully guess their meaning from the surreal haiku they mutter. There's a balance to be struck between tolerance for informal discourse and totally ignoring conventional meaning, with pedantry at one end of the scale and grunting and gestures at the other.
What is labelled pedantry is often accuracy in language.
 
  
Add Your Reply