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Test Question: The Girl, the Boy, The Funeral

 
  

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We're The Great Old Ones Now
19:26 / 28.08.03
By way of preface: if you actually know what this question is about and what the possible answers are, I'd appreciate it if you didn't reveal that for the moment. So:

A young woman attends her mother's funeral, where she meets for the first time an attractive young man she finds very attractive. They do not exchange numbers, and a week later she kills her sister. Why?
 
 
Smoothly
19:46 / 28.08.03
Either she discovered that he's her sister's husband, or she's so keen to get his number that she'll orchestrate another, similar occassion he's likely to attend. Or she's, like, mental.

I seldom read the magick, so this is probably the wrong sort of answer. But I'm drunk enough not to care.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
19:55 / 28.08.03
Oh my God, that's a bit disturbing.
 
 
Smoothly
20:02 / 28.08.03
Hmmm. Not as disturbing as the fact that I said 'Or she's mental.'
Hope this isn't another personality test.
 
 
000
21:11 / 28.08.03
This is easy.

The young woman's mother had had a boy that only managed to live for three days; this was when the two sisters were on their onset to puberty, and sadly, as the boy was born prematurely and given the fact that the hospital she was in didn't carry advanced enough incubators, it was alost cause. This threw the mother in for aloop, but not as much as when her husband died in a bizarre work accident a year later, and this in a new city no less where they didn't know that many people. In order to function, and in order to manage the two sisters' wellbeing, the mother adopted a survival mode and struggled on through life, setting aside her personal grief to be able to stay strong. Now, the plot device of the prematurely born boy carries an extra significance because when the mother later found a new partner, she unexpectedly became pregnant. This was three years in, in the new relationship, and she felt that she wanted to have another baby, perhaps in order to quench the gaping emptiness she felt when the boy and the husband died within the space of one year. But the new partner didn't desire a baby, so they parted ways and the partner left for a nearby country where he could build up a new life for himself. Alone again, she considered her options and asked the now adolescent sisters if they wouldn't mind having a new brother or sister. Luckily, they were happy. But the cruel part is this: the mother had a miscarriage.

Fastforward to 8 years later, and she had now been together again with the ex-partner for a handful of years. She too had moved to the nearby country, possibly in an attempt to escape the failure of conception. Her daughters now in their twenties, and well, she now found that she had too much time between her hands; in the past she had someone to worry over, her eldest daughter was a notorious wild child, and had often tangled herself into deep trouble. Her worry was so exact that at night, whenever a car passed by her house, she would rise from the bed to check if it was the police coming with bad news about the eldest daughter. But now that the eldest had found a relatively quiet corner for her life, she no longer could set aside her own hurt, and this is where the loss of the baby, husband and unborn child came to haunt her; so much, in fact, that she took to anti-depressants and pointless alcohol binges alone, partner in bed. This continued on, until the mother died mysteriously.

The fact deeply unsettled the eldest daughter, and she blamed her younger sister very much for never having said that the deceased mother's only way of living had deteriorated into worrying about anyone; and when the eldest sister confronted the younger sister about this, things got out of hand and the elder accidentally killed the younger.

Sob, sob.
 
 
000
21:20 / 28.08.03
(& sorry about the typos and badly phrased sentences; but the answer was so ingrained that I didn't even bother to check for mistakes, you see)
 
 
MissLenore
22:20 / 28.08.03
She'll see the cute guy again at the funeral?
 
 
w1rebaby
22:23 / 28.08.03
I know the answer, but one of you above is officially a psychopath.
 
 
000
22:36 / 28.08.03
Could you provide firmer clues?
 
 
h3r
23:56 / 28.08.03
further clues? for what? you already figured it out!

oral surgeon, I hereby give you medal. And we shall create the "oral surgeon creativity" award which barbeliths will receive whenever they show extermely&wildly-beyond-average-effort in educating and enlightening the audience!!!
 
 
—| x |—
04:44 / 29.08.03
I could write you an infinite number of responses to this. Each would have its own mood, motivation, and reason—or none at all! I would also imagine that any response I make, any story I spin, would be spun based on my own mood and milieu—from what I ate for dinner tonight to what ambient sounds float through my window, from what country I live in to my own family’s history, from where I went to school to my current interpretation of that incident in grade three, and from etcetera to ad infinitum.

Which would be “correct”?
 
 
mixmage
08:06 / 29.08.03
Isn't this game called "conundrums"?

Used to play it all the time. The person who sets the scene can answer questions, but only with Yes, No or Irrelevant.

Game on?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
08:17 / 29.08.03
Any more answers? Or shall I explain?
 
 
Sax
08:25 / 29.08.03
I think smoothly weaving's right, and if so I'm never coming to Barbelith again because ze's obviously a nut-job.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
08:44 / 29.08.03
I think the time is ripe for explanation!
 
 
No star here laces
08:46 / 29.08.03
the young guy is either an undertaker or a vicar...
 
 
No star here laces
08:47 / 29.08.03
Alternatively the girl if *&^%in homicidal and it was her that killed her mum in the first place...
 
 
Spaniel
08:58 / 29.08.03
Here's a conundrum.

So you're at a party. It goes on for an indefinite period of time. The only respite comes in the evening when the partygoers retire to recharge for another day's revellry. Here's the thing, if you're invited to the party, you'll be issued with a black or a white hat. A white hat means you can stay, a black hat, that you go and never return, asap. Now, the catch: you NEVER get to see your own hat. Not when it's put on your head, not in a reflection, not EVER.
So then, how do you know whether the organizers want you gone? No one is going to tell you you've got a black hat on your head, they're far too polite. No, it's up to you to discover what coloured hat you are wearing and make the appropriate decision.

Okay, so you're at the party, you're wearing a black hat, and so are three other people. How many days does it take you and all your unwanted buds to work it out and bugger off?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:28 / 29.08.03
I'd appreciate it if you would start a new thread for the black hat problem, please. It's an IQ test type thing (and you've missed something out, deliberately or not) and this thread is about something else all together.

My question is a much-quoted 'psychopath test'. Allegedly, over ninety per cent of killers in prison who were regarded as psychopathic gave the same answer - that the woman wanted to see the guy again, and if he came to the mother's funeral, he might well come to the sister's.

Whether or not it's a genuine test - and Urban Legends says no, but I don't think that's definitive - it does approach the question in a way which tallies with some of the work on psychopaths being unable to understand moral values or empathise with others. ('Nesh, any time you think I'm talking out of my ass here, you just jump right in.) Serial killers are actors with a natural penchant for performance. Henry Lee Lucas described being a serial killer as "being like a movie-star . . . you're just playing the part."

2

The only person I've known to get it right apart from Smoothly Weaving is a pal of mine who is on anti-psychotics because he's a danger to himself. So how 'bout it, SW - you going to run amok?

The interesting thing to me is the format of the question - it looks to most people as if there's more information needed to solve the puzzle. The point is that there isn't. (GreenMan, are you reading?) This is a test which looks to see whether you naturally view other people as objects to be moved to suit your convenience, or whether you look for empathic logic - jealousy, money, revenge... But the point is that the 'normal' mind sees other humans as 'like self' and attributes motive. The psychopath (in the question) sees them as furniture.
 
 
Kauna
09:28 / 29.08.03
You ask somebody wearing a white hat how many black hats they can see. If they can see the same number as you, then you've got a white hat. If one more, you've got a black hat.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:44 / 29.08.03
Brilliant. Now please take the hat conversation elsewhere.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:02 / 29.08.03
Surely people who are good at riddles and logic tests would be able to answer the test accurately? It's simply a matter of perspective- I can't solve riddles, I find them too confusing but I'm sure there are people who would be able to work that out without an inkling of psychosis about them.
 
 
Ariadne
10:07 / 29.08.03
I agree with Anna - it's just a fairly obvious answer, without it meaning that that's how I think and that I'd happily kill to get to see someone.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:07 / 29.08.03
I'd heard this one before- I honestly can't remember how I answered. (Now, do you believe me? Heh heh heh.)

On a similar note, Mr Vega, (and in fact Ganesh may be the best placed to answer this query) as to whether it's an urban myth or not... is "do you have a special plan for this world" similarly a question actually asked to determine someone's mental state? Cos I've heard that as well, and wonder if there's some kind of resaource where, if indeed these things are genuine, you can find 'em all!
 
 
No star here laces
10:40 / 29.08.03
Vega mate, that test is bollocks. given the information present in the test the only logical conclusion is that the girl is psycho and wants to see the bloke again. That ain't the same as the testee being psychopathic because ze sees this...
 
 
that
11:05 / 29.08.03
Yup. I agree with Anna de L, Ariadne and 'Laces.
 
 
Smoothly
11:13 / 29.08.03
Well, quite. What percentage of non-psychopaths gave the 'right' answer?
I just thought it was a traditional brainteaser of the 'think laterally' type. I'm quite partial to those and thought the only trap I might be falling into was in approaching a question, not explicitly presented as brain-teaser, in that way. I mean, the 'answer' might have been that there just isn't anything like enough information to explain why the young woman killed her sister and that anyone who even hazards a guess on the basis of the few facts given should never consider a career in the police, for example.

The idea that our answers suggest that MissLenore and I are psychopaths is ridiculous, and I'll kill and eat anyone who says otherwise.
 
 
illmatic
11:18 / 29.08.03
I got it right but just hadn't bothered to post my answer. (Yeah, yeah says everyone on Barbelith). Perhaps I was primed by reading the other thread. Seems logical to me though - the woman is a psycho and that's how she gets to see him again. I don't think this means I'm about to launch a spree of raping, pillaging and a'killing though. Though I may possibly be influenced in this by going to see that Pirate film this weekend.
 
 
rizla mission
11:43 / 29.08.03
Well I think the immediately obvious explanation is that cute guy is involved with woman's sister - hence his otherwise unexplained presence as a stranger at the funeral - and woman, clearly being a bit of a mentalist, gets jealous and gives sister the chop..

The supposed psychopath explanation sounds a little forced and, well, unlikely.

Which I suppose makes me a not-psychopath. Oh good.

Otherwise I agree with Laces - hearing people's responses to the question is kinda interesting, but it's got everything to do with how the answer-er interprets the motivations of someone who's established from the outset as being homicidal, and nothing to do with their own motivations.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:07 / 29.08.03
The point with the test - and as I said, I find it interesting because 'it does approach the question in a way which tallies with some of the work on psychopaths being unable to understand moral values or empathise with others', not because I think it's a magic psycho-finding bullet - is that it does contain all necessary information; so as soon as you start to say "the bloke is her sister's boyfriend, and she's jealous", you're off-target. At that point, you're adding to the problem to create a universe of comprehensible motivation.

It's more than likely that I prejudiced the question, looking at how I put it together, and yes, I am aware that the statistical sampling is not a particularly strong case - it's also true that if you compare human and banana DNA you get a better than fifty per cent match, but that doesn't mean we're all bananas.

And yes, Laces, I know that the test logically can lead to the supposed psychopath conclusion. If you read the answers above, however, and try it out on a few people, you'll see that most people don't approach it with that kind of logic; they look for human motive rather than seeing the protagonists as cyphers. The ability - predisposition? - to do so is part of what the question is alledged to measure.

The diagnostic tools for psychopathy (2) are predicated broadly speaking on the following traits:

lack of remorse or empathy
shallow emotions
manipulativeness
lying
egocentricity
glibness
low frustration tolerance
episodic relationships
parasitic lifestyle
persistent violation of social norms
.

The test question actually picks out quite a lot of this, which is one reason why I'm prepared to accept that it is, if not genuine, at least more intelligent than the average internet spoof.
 
 
illmatic
12:16 / 29.08.03
Thought it was worth sticking in a link to this thread on The Psychopath's Bible

Some interesting discussion on there.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
12:52 / 29.08.03
know that the test logically can lead to the supposed psychopath conclusion. If you read the answers above, however, and try it out on a few people, you'll see that most people don't approach it with that kind of logic

Where's your evidence Sam Vega? In order to be sure of that I think you would probably have to place this question alongside IQ results... not the final mark but the levels of capability that people have with the separate sections. As someone who falls down on the mathematical and logical questions on that kind of test I would never have placed that but in order to be certain that it was connected to a certain level of psychosis that would be necessary. On top of that you'd have to perform control tests on a large percentage and spread of the population and compare those tests to confidential psychological reports.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:56 / 29.08.03
Oh, God, look, I really don't care. I'm not going to fight a one-person rearguard action on behalf of a single question test. Obviously, I don't have the results of a massive sample test, because I'm not even sure this is more than a well-educated spoof. I do think that it pretty transparently probe the same areas as the vastly more detailed MMPI and PCL-R tests, but I'm not going to argue over it.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:42 / 29.08.03
I'm fucking with you Sam.
 
 
Sax
14:43 / 29.08.03
Really?
 
  

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