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Why did you get into magic?

 
  

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Gypsy Lantern
18:24 / 20.08.03
I think it's one of the most interesting questions you can ask someone. I'll start.

I got into magic because I had an inkling it would work. I reckoned it was worth a try. One of the first things I did was accurately predict 3 winning horses for my dad at the racetrack. He gave me ten quid for it. This stuff was obviously worth persisting with.

I’ve always drawn pictures and written stuff, and I think that this activity is intimately connected to magic. One thing led to another, as I think it often does.

I took more than my fair share of dubious substances when I was a kid, and saw weird fantastical stuff behind the chipped paintwork of the world.

It’s been incredible, scary, fun, extraordinary, fascinating and mad as a bag of spiders. Right now I want to consolidate what I’ve learned and experienced, and discover more.

Your turn.
 
 
LVX23
18:28 / 20.08.03
LSD & Cosmic Trigger 1.
 
 
cusm
19:57 / 20.08.03
I didn't get into magic. It got into me.
 
 
Warewullf
20:14 / 20.08.03
Thought about getting into magick, found an excellent book on witchcraft, changed my life, began to see signs and portents everywhere including one great big slap in the face from the universe when I first got started.
I was walking along, thinking about magick and if it really worked or if I was just deluded when a purple car drove past with, I swear this is true, a shiny silver sticker on the back that said "Magic Happens".

Well, I ain't gonna argue with a sign THAT obvious!

Definitley the best thing that's happened to me as it's given me a spirituality that was sorely lacking in my life.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
20:23 / 20.08.03
Purely aesthetic reasons.
 
 
h3r
21:04 / 20.08.03
yeah cusm nailed it. it got into me.
or lets put it like this: we're all in its universal system, and once one becomes aware, the tendency to learn more and "use" it evolves: we "get into it". consciously.
my awarenessof this system I inhabit was triggered by my first LSD experience i think.
 
 
Ria
22:40 / 20.08.03
weird. taking LSD has lessened my respect for the occult not enhanced it. as well as grounding me more in mundanity. during the most deep/serious trip so far my efforts to break out of consensus reality with magic seemed so absurd. children playing games.
 
 
h3r
22:55 / 20.08.03
for me Magick is not really about breaking out of the "consensus reality".
"children playing games" kinda sums up my definition of life.
its more fun to play the game when one knows the basic underlying rules to the "game". Magick.
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
00:23 / 21.08.03
Damn you, cusm. I was going to say those exact words.

Right before I was going to say exactly what Boy in a Suitcase said.

My new answer: I was looking to learn some card tricks and grabbed a book from the wrong section of the store.
 
 
rednever
00:56 / 21.08.03
Another victim of LSD and Cosmic Trigger here. Also The Invisibles, and Grant mentioning "Condensed Chaos" in an Invisibles letter collumn in Vol. 1. This was back in 1995. I've always flirted with magic, but have never been able to make the full commitment. I've been working on changing that lately...
 
 
SMS
03:07 / 21.08.03
I needed to figure out why people believed this stuff, so I thought the simplest answer would be that it was true. I tried some of the basic sigil things, with absolutely no success, and tried something like summoning with minor success. Mostly, I found that magic worked if I was trying to change myself, which is what I do almost exclusively now. I've never experienced anything that couldn't be easily explained scientifically, but it has had an impact nevertheless.

I got into magic to help me understand people.
 
 
illmatic
08:18 / 21.08.03
Personally, I find all the one line answers a bit, I duuno … boring? C’mon – expand! How did magick “get into you”? I’d like to hear more accounts of people’s anecdotes and experiences (normally the most interesting bit to read in occult books).

For me, I think I’d always had an odd philosophical-experiential twinge to my character. I was absolutely fascinated with acid, altered states, the rave scene, very utopian. When I was 18 or so, I was going through that stage of trying out loads of ideas to see what fitted. As part of this, I read a lot of fanzines (pre-net), I had the idea that non-mainstream publications would have more interesting ideas in them. As part of that I read an interview with a couple of guys from TOPY and wrote off to them. Around this time, I was reading William Burrough’s bio “Liteary Outlaw” and there’s a strange scene in there detailing the bizarre consequences of experiments with mirrors in a hotel in Paris. I couldn’t believe this weird scene in such a (relatively) straight biography. I mentioned it to one of my correspondents, and he said “sounds like Austin Spare’s Death Posture… check out Liber Null by Pete Caroll”. I did so, and found it so compelling and fascinating, I had to give it a go. Fuck all results worth speaking of at first, apart from some success with meditation, but when they did come, kinda blew my socks off…


For me, I guess the core reason was "fascination" - things firing my imagination and integrating that with my angle on approaching the world.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
08:44 / 21.08.03
Personally, I find all the one line answers a bit, I duuno … boring

Glad you said it before I did.

This is one of the most important and fundamental questions you can ask someone who practises and it deserves a proper answer. Almost everyone has a fascinating story to tell.

I suppose it was Goddess worship for me. I'd been surrounded, from a young age, by Christianity and Judaism. Christians will always argue that God isn't male and it's easier and accurate to call a genderless creature 'him'. I never bought it and I just couldn't bring myself to bow down before some almighty male figure and grovel. The father and the son made me feel inferior and angry... understand this isn't necessarily how I perceive the religion now but at the age of 12 it was all I saw. So I turned away and found something with a strong female deity and no denial of her sex. At the time I think it's all I could do because I didn't feel godless and never have.

It felt like I was fulfilling my fate- I'd been thinking about it for years. I remember wondering at the age of six what possessed people to bow down before this big, cruel and misogynistic man. In church I would visit Jesus but it was always Mary who did it for me because I had nothing in common with this bearded man on a cross. I swear it was a knock on effect from He-man vs. She-Ra. She was always weaker and they didn't show her programme as much and I absolutely knew there was no way I was letting that happen to me. All I saw was male dominance, all the strength was male, the girls could never pack a punch as well or wield a sword properly. How the hell was I meant to react but turn to the only strong female model, the magick just came hand in hand with it. The boys always won but I couldn't let that happen for myself, I had to change and as the whole nature of the feminine changed for me the world changed around me. It's very different now and I'm glad because girls should not have to develop matriachal ambition before they get in to secondary school.
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
09:00 / 21.08.03
Lemme break it down for you hip cats.

I was in a department store in Arizona once as a very young boy. I spotted a pair of plastic silver six-shooters. The things held me in their thrall and I briefly imagined myself as a cowboy. No, I didn't imagine I was a cowboy, that's not right. I was a cowboy.

That's about as magical as it gets.

From there I fought psychic wars with monsters, ate spooks and levitated around in my astral fighter plane. Sometimes I tuned in with vibes that I didn't quite gather and still don't. Sometimes I just sat in front of the mirror and watched the light flickering around my skin.

I've never been interested in reading about magic or learning how to do magic. I didn't grow into it, I wasn't drawn into the mysterious world of the occult. It was just something that was done and that's how it went. Like breathing, if you want.

So that's my grand old story.
 
 
Secularius
11:18 / 21.08.03
Well I haven't really gotten deeply into this magic thing yet. But the reason I got interested in these things, and the reason I'm here, is that I had my own VALIS transmission/gnosis or what you call it. It just happened all of a sudden at a very hard time without any effort on my behalf. I had a stream of ideas seemingly out of nowhere, that I didn't recognise as my own, and felt the strong urge to write them down. Also my perception of reality was altered, I discovered patterns in people's behaviour and felt more alive and firmly situated in the Here and Now. The future and the past were utterly meaningless for me at that time.

Trying to make sense of it all I found some similarities in such seemingly contradictory sources as Derrida & Deleuze, Einstein, Franz Kafka, Leibniz and Spinoza, Nietzsche, Soren Kierkegaard, Freemasonry, Plato/Aristhotle, Heraclitus, Ancient Greek mythology, taoism, yoga and the Dead Sea Scrolls. I thought I was going mad but when I read VALIS afterwards, and discovered Robert Anton Wilson I saw I wasn't alone. I also picked up one book of Invisibles I'd bought a long time ago and never really got into, and this time it made more sense. Afterwards I recognised the red thread running through my influences: They were all inspired by kabbalah or gnosticism, or both. This discovery reassured me that I had to research this further.

My research hasn't brought me any more mystical experiences, but I feel less dogmatic about my ideas, beliefs and identity. I tried some sigil magic to induce more self change, but felt kinda silly about it. I'm not going to try LSD since I didn't need any chemical enhancements for my previous experience. I'm an avid practitioner of yoga and enthusiastic about tantra but I haven't really jumped on the whole magic bandwagon. Or have I? Perhaps I could second that magic found me.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:51 / 21.08.03
Gosh. Could I ask for more detail on said gnostic relationship with Derrida or would that be bringing out the threadrot monster a little too much?
 
 
Secularius
14:18 / 21.08.03
Anna: There is definitely a kabbalistic element in Derrida's thought. It has been mentioned on more than one occasion in "serious" books on the Jewish Kabbalah, for example one by Gerschom Scholem (THE most prestigious scholar on Kabbalah) if I remember correctly. Also check out The New Kabbalah.
 
 
cusm
15:01 / 21.08.03
Ok, hip one liners aside, I basicly grew up with it in my reality. I had a dad who fumbled about with psychic stuff when I was young and talked about it alot, and I grew used to the idea of it all. I soon became infatuated with the idea of "making something happen", and would practice at trying to move things with my mind and such things frequently. Meanwhile, downstairs my crazy grandmother spent most of her days mumbling curses to both the living and the dead in an obsessive sort of way, and would occasionally see her father walking the halls. There was this one incident with a violently shaking bed requiring some holy water to put still again that I kept hearing about, too. And of course, the nasty spirits she would attract with her constant cursing would wander up to plague me in the night, causing me to learn the combat and banishing stuff right early if I wanted to get a decent nights sleep. This all somewhat countered by my old worldly great-grandmother who would pray Novinas (like Catholic spells involving Mary and a weeks worth of heavy praying, pretty heavy and effective) for all of our benefit, general needs, or what she thought we should be doing. Then there was the energetic puppy who was hit by a car who we buried in the back, but whose presence would continue to jump around making my skin crawl so bad I couldn't go into our back yard for about 4 years. And this all before the age of 12.

When I was finally reaching semi-adult sentience, it was no suprise to me that I kept meeting people who were into the magic in some way. Though it wasn't until I was 23 (fancy that) that I really got into the acid and accelerated my understanding of all the psi stuff you can't learn in books, and 2 years after that that I moved in with someone who had an extensive occult library which I devoured. Then there was the Invisibles and Peter Caroll. It was around this time that I started calling myself a magician, even though I had crafted my personal sigil in high school more out of instinct than really knowing what it was supposed to be for. I've only gotten around to reading Crowley in the past year, which has been a continual exercise in "well duh, I already knew that..."

And now I do runes, herd pagans about in circles, drum for voodoo ceremonies, and have children with pointy ears. All that and I still can't make objects levitate off my desk, though they occasionally fall over in the next room when noone is watching.
 
 
illmatic
15:20 / 21.08.03
Heavy stuff for a kid, though they say it "runs in the family" after all. Now I can see why. I remember meeting a guy at college who was psychic who had a "withcy" mom, who'd somehow passed it onto him. Not the case in my house, my dad was a devout skeptic, I wonder if I've picked up on this in the bursts of severe skepticsm that I get sometimes. I defintely remember trying to levitate things though...
anyone else do the looking into mirrors thing as a kid, trying to get through?
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
22:15 / 21.08.03
There's probably a story about actually trying to climb through a mirror, to no great success.

Methinks that my fear of not being able to get out again once I did go through inhibited me. That, and my mother would've been right angry with me if I'd managed that one.

Though I used to wish we had a wardrobe so I could go get some Turkish delight, but it was sadly not to be. That may not qualify me.
 
 
LVX23
00:01 / 22.08.03
They wrote:

Personally, I find all the one line answers a bit, I duuno … boring

Glad you said it before I did.

This is one of the most important and fundamental questions you can ask someone who practises and it deserves a proper answer.

My response:

Lighten up. Sometimes I feel like writing a novel, sometimes I prefer to encapsulate a response in a single witty rejoinder. Boring, perhaps. Improper, define "improper".

To fully answer such a question would require something near an autobiography. When I've more time perhaps I'll craft a less-boring andmore proper response.

Sheesh.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
04:24 / 22.08.03
I don't remember, or if I do I don't want to or something. Same thing when people ask me "how long have you been lucid dreaming?" I don't know. As long as I've been dreaming, I've been lucid dreaming. I didn't think it was unusual until I got to college and people didn't know what I was talking about. As long as I can remember I've been doing little bits of magic. It's always been around my life, I remember seeing ghosty things around the house and sleepwalking all the time as a kid, and my mom taught me to read at about 3 with an illustrated The Hobbit.

On the other hand, it was only this year that I've realized maybe The Thing I Want To Be When I Grow Up is some kind of magician. thing. Nothing special, was walking by my apartment wondering what I was going to do with myself and realizing I might have an answer for once.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
08:32 / 22.08.03
Boring, perhaps. Improper, define "improper".

Erm, why don't you lighten up- am I the only one who sensed a little hypocrisy in that post?

The thread asks a straightforward question, you didn't answer thus to an extent you gave an improper response. Deal with it and if you can't interpret what I say as a comment rather than a command than don't fucking respond to me. I'm not telling you to do anything I'm saying that it's immensely interesting to find out how people got in to it. I don't care what you do but this thread's intriguing enough without a load of flippant trash to screw with it. Thanks for making me rot it- about as far from what I wanted to do as possible.
 
 
pachinko droog
15:46 / 22.08.03
I think it started when I got into Burroughs during high school. After "Naked Lunch" and "The Ticket That Exploded" I read "The Job" and "Electronic Revolution", then found a copy of "Third Mind" which led directly to the Re/Search volume on Burroughs/Gysin/Throbbing Gristle. After that, it was "Here to Go" and finding out all I could on Brion Gysin, who became something of an obsession during college, along with Throbbing Gristle and Psychic TV recordings, and the films of David Cronenberg.

Strangely enough, I never got into TOPY. I did write them a few times, read the "Grey Book" and GPO's "Esoterrorist", but for some reason it just didn't *click* with me. Around the time I got out of college, I was reading Mondo 2000, and a couple of interviews that appeared in it (Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison) got me interested in comics again for the first time since I was a kid. Started reading Sandman, Animal Man and Doom Patrol, been hooked on Morrison ever since. What he was able to achieve in Doom Patrol and Flex Mentallo convinced me that comics could be used as a medium for magickal practice, The Invisibles only reinforced that notion.

I guess all along, I've been intrigued by the possibilities inherent in the combination of magick and media, whether in books, comics, music, film/video or what-have-you. Still am.
 
 
LVX23
20:31 / 22.08.03
Deal with it and if you can't interpret what I say as a comment rather than a command than don't fucking respond to me.

Again, lighten up. My original statement actually was the best way I could succinctly answer the question. I ate acid for the first time at 16 and had my whole preception of reality blown wide open. At that moment I understood that "reality" was not concrete but totally malleable, and that there were far more layers to it than I had imagined. I spent the next two years trying to figure out what had happened, mostly by skulking in my high school library reading whatever pharmacology and psych books I could find that would talk about LSD. After high school ended I tripped again (at Big Sur) and then got turned on to Cosmic Trigger. If you haven't read the book, then I could see how my response might have been interpreted as being flippant. I you have read the book, then you can see how my response might have been appropriate (or at least adequate). Cosmic Trigger actully gave me a roadmap to magick and mysticism and keeping your head relatively straight throughout it all. And, most importantly, it told who else to read. Wilson's advice let me understand that everything magickal or psychedelic or spiritual was all a condition of my brain acting essentially as a holographic reflection of Life. Life programs me just as much as I program life. And what fun it is!

To extend the autobiography just slightly, and to hopefully appease Anna's honest and fair request to elaborate a bit, I would also contribute my passage into magick to my parents.

They aren't especially magickal in any traditional sense, but they do love nature and good music. Some of my earliest memories are of hiking the Sierra Nevada mountains, playing in amazingly lush forests in Oregon, and visiting forested native camps in Washington & British Columbia, totem poles and all. I feel these formative experiences really bound me to nature which, IMO, is a large requisite for real magick (at least White Magick). Similarly some of my other earliest memories are seeing David Bowie on the Aladdin Sane tour, the Grateful Dead in Santa Barbara in 1974 (I was 3 years old!). And according to my Dad I was even in utero for a couple of Dead shows, Jethro Tull, and possibly Led Zeppelin.

So, yeah, to return to my original post, elaborating slightly:

Nature, Music, LSD, Cosmic Trigger.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:04 / 23.08.03
Cool. Impassioned calls to lighten up aside, the longer posts are just more fun to read. Strange personal anecdotes and tall tales beat glib guarded responses any day of the week in my book. I’m not exactly going to be losing sleep over it either way, but it’s interesting to hear people’s stories y’know.

Also I think it’s quite important to be able to accurately answer the question – “why are you involved with all of this weird shit?” I think it’s a useful exercise to try and succinctly pin down what your initial motivations were, and I found that the process of trying to honestly answer the question threw up quite a lot of interesting stuff for me about the way I approach magic.

I’m finding it quite informative to see how other people have responded to this same process. Any more?
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
14:29 / 23.08.03
"Why are you involved with all of this weird shit?"

I find that to be a different question from the original, and at the risk of breaking down the social order, I'm going to answer it in this thread.

Magic has always been there. The craziness started to seep in when it wasn't in immediate reach. The moments when I felt disconnected and isolated, maybe intentionally, maybe not. Those times when I tried to deny what I knew all along, for whatever reasons I may have had at the time.

I've remained involved in this weird shit because I want to know what it's all about and this gives me an access card to one section of the Librarium Universalis.

Magic doesn't have all the answers, maybe it doesn't have any of the answers, but it helps you find some of the important questions. That's why I'm into this weird business and that's why I'm not planning on leaving anytime soon.

Well, that, and I'm still trying to find a way to successfully manipulate the cosmos so I can win more often at poker. Any suggestions?
 
 
Salamander
16:41 / 23.08.03
I can't remember why, one day I was just standing there and all of a sudden I was a discordian and magick was real and all the rest was real and it was just crazy man crazy. I honestly can say that it is a more entertaining way to live, and perhaps more tastefull as well.
 
 
Papess
21:59 / 23.08.03
I looked around at the way most people live and thought...

"This can't be all there is."


That and...I just really want to put curses on everyone that crosses me...and even those that don't!


MUHAHAHAHAHA!


...and your little dogs too!
 
 
captain piss
14:08 / 25.08.03
Teenage acid experiences…feeling like myself and two friends had become one person, and were able to talk through each other and read each other’s minds. Reading lots of Terence Mckenna (and listening to the Orb, obviously).

Later read the Invisibles – clung to it desperately during a lonely period following a move to London when I was 21, when each month’s issue was the biggest thing in my life. Actually, that seems a slightly absurd thought -“yes, without the bedrock of hyperspace and hallucinatory, mutating realities to cling to, I don’t know how I’d have made it through”. Read some of the stuff recommended by the author at the time but didn’t quite get what it was all about.

What came next?..Lots of not-quite-following-the-rules experiments with things like..oh, invocation, evocation, sigils, dream work,…A few interesting things happened to keep me at it. More serious efforts with martial arts, the Alexander technique, Chris Hyatt’s “Undoing Yourself” book…
Also now jumping through the more formal hoops of western magick techniques like the middle pillar and LBRP, to see what that’s all about…

So it’s been a few years of wrestling with a slightly materialist background/sensibility, on the one hand, and conviction that “there must be something to all this shit” on the other. But why bother in the first place? Ah- you want me to answer the question (oops!) – errrm…possibly in large part a fascination with some of the people involved in magick.
 
 
LVX23
23:09 / 26.08.03
Why bother? Because magic creates a more interesting, more expansive reality. And it keeps me entertained.

Totally. My feeling exactly. There are many lenses throuogh which to view the world and it's ultimately up to each of us to put on the glasses. Magick is to me the most pleasurable, entertaining, rewarding, and positive perspective I've come across so far. Life is what you make of it.
 
 
Warewullf
11:29 / 27.08.03
Very well put, LVX23.
 
 
—| x |—
03:51 / 29.08.03
Left field was simply too boring and slow: this position for which I was made allowed my young mind ample opportunity to make various significances from clouds, the flight paths of birds, and the crackle of the high-voltage wires.
 
 
Quantum
10:46 / 01.09.03
Gandalf. No, seriously, wizards in fiction. As a child I read a lot, and mostly fantasy and sci-fi. I often wished I could fly, turn invisible etc. and was crushed when I discovered it was impossible. Everyone wants magic powers, right?
So I looked into it. I spent a lot of time daydreaming (a place where you CAN have magic powers) and read more and more, looking for something to indicate magic was real. Everything I found indicated magic was wishful thinking, and I went through a heavily sceptical phase, becoming a materialist atheist for my teenage years, believing magic was only real in stories.
Then I started studying philosophy. After scorning Cartesian dualism and gradually discovering what I believed (no objective truth, sense data are all we know, conceptual spectacles etc.) I realised the fiction/fact distinction might not be as reliable as I thought. The work of many philosophers, and Jung, and loads of Quantum physicists seemed to throw me into doubt. Maybe my literalist worldview was wrong, and the universe was a more complex and subtle place than I realised.
I'd been playing with the Tarot for a few years by then (my mother was a Tarot reader) and had read Castaneda, RAW and Leary, had researched Crowley & the golden dawn etc. but none of it was the fireball-and-flying-carpet magic I was looking for. So I settled for less.
Storybook magic is impossible in this reality (I reasoned) but magick (shaping the world to your will) IS possible, so I will have to lower my sights to that. I can't fly like superman, but I could get a hanglider. I can't become invisible, but I could make people not notice me. And in the meantime keep magic alive in fiction, storytelling and daydreaming, which turned out to be extremely handy magical skills in the end. If all the world's a narrative, it pays to be a storyteller.
So anyway I kept up the research, learned to read the cards properly, took a load of other ideas on board and played & ran some Mage RPGs, (essentially a shared daydream about having magic powers), as magic gradually drifted into prominence in my life. One day I realised I had a load of knowledge, magical skills and magical beliefs but virtually no conscious practice except the Tarot, and decided to call myself a magician to myself and practice when I felt like it.

I still felt as though only me, Alan Moore and Rachael Pollack really believed this stuff though, until I discovered Barbelith a few years later. This magick forum opened my eyes, and I realised there are loads of you out there, freaks like me who believe in magick. More power to you all.

Why did I get into Magic? I always had been and I just didn't know it. Oh, and listening to the Orb on acid, obviously.
 
 
7magpies
10:28 / 02.09.03
Imagination was my way in to magic. Imagination and the need to empower myself to reach the goals I have set for myself. It feels like a long journey and the best thing is that there is so much to learn (I found out about this web-site by sheer serendipity). I think that is the way I view magic: as learning tool which has taught me a lot about myself and other people.

Hey! I'm just a romantic at heart.
 
  

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