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The Filth #12

 
  

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Warewullf
21:40 / 20.08.03
Arse. I meant Ned's house.

Really.

I don't think Hughes really cares about Status Q.

Ok, but he is working for The Hand now, so maybe it was a mutially beneficial operation? The Hand gets rid of an anti-person and Hughes gets to kill Sharon and maybe Greg/Ned while he's at it?

Actually, did The Hand send Hughes to kill Greg/Ned or not?
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:47 / 20.08.03
Sharon Jones:
Sort of disapointed that this charactor who could have had such an interesting story parralleling the Macro/Micro dynamics that seems to be at the heart of The Filth has prettymuch been relegated to little more than a sort of walk-on role. She was one of the very first charactors to appear in the series, killed, resurrected, the killed again. With most of the interesting aspects of her existance left to either a third person's discription or between panels/pages activities and assumptions...

I would have rather read about the society with-in her body along with shorter vrsions of the prolonged "ship-of-fools" and "black sperm from hell" storylines...
 
 
the Fool
00:38 / 21.08.03
more on Sharon...

Would killing Sharon actually do anything to the I-Life driving her? Wouldn't they just jump ship and invade the superior Thunderstone bioship? Combat the Hughes viromeme for control? Or disperse into any number of alternative bioships - cats, rats, insects, bugs, bacteria - until another suitable bioship crossed their path?
 
 
diz
03:59 / 21.08.03
Would killing Sharon actually do anything to the I-Life driving her?

i was kind of curious about this, too.

here's another question:

i think we've sort of accepted that [Greg/Ned] is in some sense the Qlippothic aspect or aspects of King Mob, or maybe, more accurately, Greg Feely, Ned Slade, King Mob, Kirk Morrison, and Gideon Stargrave are all different fictionsuits worn by the same player (GM's version of Moorcock's Eternal Champion? especially considering the Stargrave/Cornelius issue...)

anyway, totally off on a tangent here. here's a parallel i found interesting:

King Mob, speaking of John-a-Dreams: "John could walk through a police stakeout waving a severed head and a bag of heroin and nobody would know he was there unless he wanted them to. He did everything better than everybody. Public school bastard."

Miami, comparing Hughes to Slade: "Spartacus Hughes, educated at Eton, Magdalen College, Oxford honors graduate, superb marksman, martial arts expert, sex god. He was better than you at everything there is, Slade. But you were always funnier, that's what we all miss"

is the relationship between [John-a-Dreams/Quimper/unnamed grey alien/possibly etc.] and Spartacus Hughes similar to the one between [Ned/Greg] and KM?

if so, what does that mean?
 
 
--
13:58 / 21.08.03
Well, John A'Dreams is against status quo when we first see him, yet when he reappears at the end of Volume 3 he's with the Outer Church.
 
 
finger n' thump
14:45 / 21.08.03
so now everybody's humping the filth/invisibles cross referencing meat stick.
you're just a bunch of one-eyed kings.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:18 / 21.08.03
Talk like that will make me dead you with my bang stick so Zing! I wonder if a human being driven my I-Life can really die, I-Life was made to love cancer cells, so perhaps it can repair damaged bones/organs. Otherwise, Tony is missing, so presumerably the I-Life can repair him, they have the technology... And based on the fact that right back in issue 1 (IIRC) I-Life was described as little machines designed to get rid of cancer cells through love, or something similar, I wonder what they're going to do to The Hand in the last issue. I'm never right about these things but if Mother Dirt and/or Le Pen have been going potty over the last few issues because they're a cancer maybe I-Life is going to love them back to health.

And something else. Where is Ned (as opposed to Greg)'s flat? Is it in the 'real world' of Greg's flat, or is it in that otherworld that The Hand is based in? If the latter, did Greg tell Sharon how to get there, was she intending (or did she actually succeed) in infecting The Hand with I-Life already?

And we're assuming that, based on the last few pages of this issue that The Filth has some intimate relationship with Greg. What if it's with Tony? The shit has gone down and the Hand has gone crazy ape bonkers since Tony died, Sharon infected Tony with I-Life and from a cats perspective Greg's hand holding a pen would look like a Giant Pen...
 
 
diz
17:20 / 21.08.03
I'm never right about these things but if Mother Dirt and/or Le Pen have been going potty over the last few issues because they're a cancer maybe I-Life is going to love them back to health

i hate to be a downer, but this is supposed to be a Qlippothic journey and GM has called it a "hymn to the immune system" or some such. this might end up being a really pessimistic book, where the i-life approach ultimately fails and the Hand and Status Q are vindicated in the end...
 
 
diz
17:28 / 21.08.03
oh, and this may be stupid but:

Le Pen. Giant pen.

Connection?
 
 
Mr Tricks
18:13 / 21.08.03
In the previous isse Greg put Sharon in a Cab with the Cat Box... presumeable sending her to Ned's apt where he would Meet her later...
 
 
Eskay Uno
19:05 / 21.08.03
I doubt that we've seen the last of Tony, Sharon, or those I-life critters, but I wouldn't be too surprised if we did.

I think that a lot of the sloppiness and inconsistencies some folks are complaining about are an important part of the high concept for the series. It's supposed to be messy, it shouldn't come together all neat and tidy-like. Next issue may not have many answers at all and instead be one last big confusing trip.

As for the world of the Crack... yeah, it seems right now to be the microscopic world of bacteria that surrounds and permeates all things, but there seems to be more to it than just that... Anyone remember that Morrison once mentioned he believed Gods were real and that he regularly travelled to another dimension to commune with them? That other dimension being the 2nd dimension, the world of lines on paper. In other words, write yourself into a story with whatever God you want to meet. Or, write yourself into a story to be the hero you've always wanted to be.

Could the Crack be a fictional 2-d universe? I think this has been mentioned before - Ned as Greg's FICTIONAL avatar , the super-spy adventures as real in the sense that they are stories he writes, etc. It doesn't seem too far fetched. All of Greg's mundane struggles and concerns get transformed into epic adventures through the power of his imaginative writing. Everything that happens in the 2-d world has an analogue in the "real"-world. Anyone from the real world can be a "character" from the Crack-verse because the characters are just types, suits, para-personalities used to contain elements from elsewhere (ideas, real-world analogues, etc.)

Perhaps Greg's grief got so intense that he attempted suicide and in his last hallucinatory moments, he gets lost in the fictional universe he created, a fictional universe which has taken on a life of its own, has become self-aware, and is trying to save itself by "waking" Greg up. Yes GM's done it before... guess we'll have to wait a few more weeks to be sure.

And what exactly does PARA-PERSONALITY mean anyway? Any etymologists out there? Para, in my understanding, can mean to hold or contain (or confine). This interpetaiton fits nicely with GM's whole fiction-suit concept, and it's also got a nice link to PARABLE - "a narrative of imagined events used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson". Aren't all fictional characters, in a sense, para(ble)-personalities? And anyone of us can be them...
 
 
Eskay Doss
03:03 / 22.08.03
Hmmmm... so then Secret Original's comic book universe is a story within a story within a story? And Ned/Greg is like S.O. and the Hand are like the heroes in the comic book universe? God, this conceptual stuff always gives me a headache!
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
03:30 / 28.08.03
I am going to point out a different grant parallel. SO breaks agains the walls of heaven. In NXM weapon XV speculates that when he leaves The World he will crash against the walls of heaven.
 
 
01
18:49 / 29.08.03
I would just like to say that Dimitri-9, the dope smoking communist chimpanzee assassin was the best thing about the whole series. The dialoge written for this character was some of Grant Morrison's most masterful. I would now like to share some of my favourite snippets with you.

"Don't be scared. Your life will be like the Soviet Union. Brief, glorious and not worth the shit on my ass!"
"I know who you are you anarchistic shit-bastard!"
"Shit in Lenin's briefcase!"
"...poor ass shit man."
"Human shit bastards!"

the brilliantly delivered quip, "Ass bastards!"

and my absolute favourite, this gem,

"...and I, comrade Ham... from the depths of my ass...I salute you, shit face."
 
 
Sexy Legendary
20:03 / 02.09.03
Couple of quick points:

Secret Original = Christopher Reeve as Superman.

Odd that Ned breaks Cameron's neck and that SO makes Moog suck his schlong when it appears that Spartacus seems to have done both to Sharon off camera.

The family of Dennis Potter keeps growing... altogether now...
 
 
The Natural Way
10:06 / 03.09.03
Of course! Reeve!

Still flying around in the fiction-verse, but shattered against nasty reality in this one! Ace! And nasty and unpleasant. God, the Filth rocks in its own horrid way....
 
 
FinderWolf
15:41 / 03.09.03
I liked how the American space chimps described themselves as "handsome" and how Dmitri hated and envied them for being such good-looking chimps.
 
 
Sexy Legendary
15:49 / 03.09.03
Fave Dmitri moment (and there are plenty of contenders, believe me) has to be:

"Shit chimp! Whoop! Shit chimp kill! Kill! kill for Khruschev!" from #2.

Had it on a t-shirt for a while, but the printing was well shoddy and survived approx 3 washes before Dmitri was gone. Wonder if the t-shirt saw any handsome space chimps before it shuffled off this mortal coil?
 
 
01
02:47 / 04.09.03
I demand a Dimitri monthly title immediately!
 
 
FinderWolf
13:38 / 04.09.03
DC's December solicits:

DMITRI-9 THE UGLY, UN-HANDSOME SPACE CHIMP ASSASSIN #1 (of 3)

Writer: Grant Morrison
Artist: Chris Weston

Spinning out of Morrison's insane THE FILTH, this trippy
miniseries tells early tales of Dmitri the human-hating
chimp's life as a KGB assassin and astronaut! Who killed
JFK? Oliver Stone didn't figure on a chimp in the grassy
knoll!! Dmitri makes the space race tragi-comic!! A
must have for Morrison fans!!!


(this is a joke in case anyone actually believes this shit)
 
 
--
14:32 / 04.09.03
What I never got is, if he hates humans so much, why does he speak like one, dress like one, and use human tools?

Maybe he has some kind of subconscious species envy or something...

A chimp obsessed with shit? The Chimpanzee Civil Rights groups should protest these stereotypes.
 
 
grant
15:19 / 04.09.03
Actually, that's all covered in the comic -- he was irradiated in space, then got patched up and retrained/brainwashed by the KGB. I think Dmitri only hates humans marginally more than he hates the American chimps. He's a cuddly bundle of hate.
 
 
Bingoboots
02:09 / 08.09.03
I have to admit that I couldn't remember whether issue 12 was the last of The Filth. I'm kind of relieved that Grant isn't going to leave us on such a disappointing note. Which isn't to say that he won't leave us on a disappointing note, just that he has one more shot to redeem the series.

Morrison has come up with such a list of fascinating/humorous/engaging characters, concepts and situations in this series... and then has proceeded to kill/destroy them rather than bother to develop them. This is certainly nothing new to Grant's m.o.; almost every time he creates a character for an established title, that character winds up dead by the end of his run (do you really expect Fantomex to survive past Grant in the NXM?). It looks as though Morrison has come to the point of self-parody on this subject, and The Filth (especially #12) is one big punch-line. What to do with Spartacus Hughes, Secret Original, Max Thunderstone, Dmitri, Spector, Mercury, The Bio-Ship Sharon Jones, Tony and ultimately Ned/Greg?

Why, kill 'em, of course!

And whereas I do find a certain level of humor in this self-parody, My problem with The Filth is that Grant seems to have created so much of it in order to do nothing else but destroy it. What good, utimately is a brilliant concept if you're not actually going to DO anything with it? Or is that fundamentally part of the theme of The Filth - lost potential, destroying the seed before it can even germinate? This would certainly fit in with The Hand's work to destroy any evolutionary advance in the world. But another part of the theme seems to be that of the repeating, cyclical pattern. Hopefully Grant will use issue #13 to explore this, and not just leave us stranded in a world where all creation leads to nought but an untimely death.

Or maybe in the end, the beginning says it all.
"Is best for wank, ih?"
 
 
The Falcon
02:38 / 08.09.03
I refute that. Everyone knows Philip Bond's Invisibles vol. 3 work "is best for wank". Ih?!

And Zauriel survived, dude. I'm still pretty fuckin' aggrieved about Aztek (in fact, you can my thread about it here.)

But we should let it go; or we could end up like this tragic Rom fan. And no-one wants that.

The concepts are mostly horrible anyway; to be experienced like a shit or vomit. Expelled from the body. This comic is fibre.
 
 
The Falcon
02:40 / 08.09.03
Oh shit; credit to Smile for finding that special link.

I cried when the football manager in Match magazine's weekly comic died, dunted on the head by a smashed goalpost. It just seemed so... senseless.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
10:44 / 08.09.03
Fave Dimitri quote:

"HEY SPARTACUS!

THERE IS A HOLE IN THE BOAT AND YOUR MOTHER IS A KGB ASS-WHORE IN THE DUNGEONS OF THE KREMLIN!

WHUUOOP"
 
 
Bingoboots
15:21 / 08.09.03
I have to agree about Aztek - loved the character, the setup, the possibilities... and then Grant kills him off. It wasn't so much that he died as how he died. If memory serves, it was a rather pointless couple of panels. Anticlimactic. The death of the possible-future-Aztek in "Rock of Ages" was much more meaningful, noble & beautiful. Sure, not everyone gets a noble death... but if it's a character of your very own creation for whom you had grand plans, you might wish to do more than unceremoniously toss him on the scrap heap. Or at least your readers might wish you to.

And (lest you think I'm on the wrong thread here) that pointless anticlimactic, empty ending is just what I'm talking about being epidemic in The Filth. But then, as I said, maybe fundamentally it's all about the pointless destruction of the emerging.
 
 
Baz Auckland
15:52 / 08.09.03
If Ned and Mercury and etc. were all para-personalities, does that include Dmitri too? How about those strange 'higher up' peoples like Nixon/Noxin and Man Green/Man Yellow?

...I think Greg mentions in one of the early issues that he didn't think chimps lived that long when he hears that Dmitri killed Kennedy...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:27 / 08.09.03
Yes, but Aztek was killed off because his ongoing series got cancelled. If it hadn't he probably would have survived. He was the Tasha Yar of the JLA, stupid, expendable...

In the end The Filth, a dash of Grant's De Sade obsession, his dying cat causing mental breakdown motif, some stuff that he did better in Zenith (you'll have to ask Haus about this one, I haven't read Zenith so don't know), his comics coming to life thing from Doom Patrol, Flex Mentallo, The Invisibles and every single fucking interview he's done since about 1995. In the end the only original thing is the talking monkey. I firmly believe now that Vertigo only published this because it had Morrison's name on it, and that's a sufficient draw in itself. Based on this and his recent issues of X-Men I think he needs to get away from comics for a bit and recharge his mental batteries and find some new obsessions.
 
  

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