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The Filth #12

 
  

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17:48 / 13.08.03
All I can say at the moment is, wow... It'll take some time for me to assimilate all this.

Glad to finally know exactly where the Crack came from... Looks like Cam was right about the giant hand writing the suicide note called existance. Nice to see Secret Original return too.

This all ties in nicely with Dr. Soon dying on the I-Life planet she had created... And the whole sour milk sea thing literally being formed from sour milk was great. The fallen trash container at the end pretty much sums up the series... Grant wading in qliphoptic filth. Even Feely wanting to be James Bond makes sense.

Still, Sharon Jone's existence in the series still seems trivial, especially as to how quickly they did away with her.

Kinda sorry to see Cam go...
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
01:40 / 14.08.03
I'm interested to see how it'll wrap up from here...
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
01:45 / 14.08.03
1 more issue, then, BANG! Reread the whole seris to see if I can understand the plot and not just the philosophy! WHOAT!
 
 
illmatic
06:40 / 14.08.03
Does anyone know if The Filth is coming out as a graphic novel at any stage? Haven't brought them and kind of regret it - is it worth hanging on till a graphic or should I just scrounge them off someone?
 
 
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13:39 / 14.08.03
I'd say scrounge, but then again I'm the impatient type (explains why I just ordered the last 12 issues of Transmet rather then wait for them to be released in graphic novel form). Of course when the graphic novels come out I'll get those too: Ditto for "The Filth".

Damn, I forgot to put a summary on this thread.
 
 
the Fool
21:26 / 14.08.03
The individual issues are also worth getting for their really pretty covers. I loved the whole 'fever dream' feeling of this issue. Collapsing levels of reality folding ontop of one another.

It actually reminds me a bit of the 'dreamness' you find in David Lynch films...
 
 
--
22:43 / 14.08.03
H'mm, I'm surprised more people haven't commented on this issue so far. My guess is either they haven't read it yet, or we're continuing the thread of less and less Filth responses each issue.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
00:28 / 15.08.03
I think the Filth has trodden a very weird line between funny and disturbing. More laugh out loud moments than any Morrison comic previously (except mebbe Big Dave) but also a sustained level of pathos. I dunno,it's definitely a more stimulating read than 99.2% of what's available and for that we should all be thankfull. It does feel like the comedown from the Invisibles tho doesn't it?
 
 
The Natural Way
09:01 / 15.08.03
I'm sure I'm going to enjoy this one.

Will add to the thread once I've read it.
 
 
finger n' thump
12:29 / 15.08.03
I didn't understand any of it. therefore:
no comment.

The Filth is necessary but inconsequential.
It's legacy will be, 'how not to....'
It is truly awful.
It may be the worst fiction-book I've ever read.

I am mean that as a compliment.
 
 
PatrickMM
14:10 / 15.08.03
The trade is planned, but not until 2004.

As for this issue, I think this is an example of why it's very difficult to read comics in monthly form. I've forgotten so many of the details of the series that it was difficult to connect everything together. Still, the art is incredible, and the concepts are great. Hopefully, it'll all come together on the reread.
 
 
quinine92001
01:48 / 17.08.03
Great issue. Very Mulholland Drive. Excellent transformation of Max Thunderstone to Sparticus Hughs, porntasche and all. Dark downward spiral mimicking Scott Summers anyone? Pen dipped in souring milk writing the suicide note of the world, we used to do these things as children just to be like spies. We used milk on paper as invisible ink, the message would be revealed once the paper was held to the light of a lamp. Favorite scene was when the comic book began writing itself and the Secret Original was confronted by his girlfriend. Poor Mercury...
 
 
Mystery Gypt
03:01 / 17.08.03
i feel less and less like commenting on this thing until its wrapped up... what seemed in the first few issues to be "crazy weird sci-fi of the month" has turned out (of course) to be a weirdly coherent -- make that ultra-coherant -- narrative. i need to see it all in completed form. [add obligatory "i despise fucking monthly comics format" comment here].

still, with the whole suicide note thing interpenetrating with the comicverse bit, can we discuss how its this aspect of the filth is NOT exactly like Flex Mentallo? how would people says his ideas on this front have developed?
 
 
diz
06:49 / 17.08.03
i'm somewhat frustrated by the monthly format also.

i've missed a few issues, i think, and since i've moved recently, i have no idea where the fuck any of my back issues might be, and this issue is precisely the kind of issue that makes me want to go back and take stock...

how long until the trade comes out? ~sigh~
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
19:25 / 17.08.03
I wasn't impressed, but those who are pissed off with me expressing my opinions will have known this already, right?

I think the glaring error is that Grant decides that Moog and wossername would be pissed off to discover that they are personalities implanted on other people, without any reason given. I would have assumed that The Filth would have made it part of those personalities that if they discovered they were false they wouldn't care. Sharon and Spartacus' fates were so crap, Sharon's especially as though Grant suddenly realised that he only had just over two issues left to go, and Spartacus, what was the point of all that in the end? A happy drone, working for Status Q? And Moog and Adam, that didn't particularly seem relevent.

I hope that the next issue reveals that Greg was the character from Doom patrol that invented Flex Mentallo, and the last 12 issue have been a fever dream of him fighting his cancer, which is what Mother Dirt is. I think that's the only possible reason for The Filth suddenly embracing Spartacus to fight Greg is if it's a whole Singing Detective thing, and would fit in nicely with the whole Grant recycling his old ideas again thing.
 
 
houdini
20:32 / 17.08.03

I have to say that #12 wasn't as good for me as #11 was.

SPOILERS.









While I really liked the revelation WRT personalities last issue ("Anyone can be Spartacus Hughes") and don't agree with Our Lady... that personalities could casually be modified to be accepting of this, I didn't think #12 came off in a satisfying manner.

The "flip-flop" of making Hughes spontaneously a Baddy as soon as Gregg became a Goody so's they could fight all over again seemed quite forced to me, and I'm not very convinced that it really arises as an organic part of the narrative.

Moreover, the whole ending was pretty dull. I would have to say it was almost predictable. And, no, that's not to say that I anticipated that exact scenario (I don't tend to speculate too much about what's going to happen in comics I'm reading) but that when it came along I thought, "Oh, he's going that way, is he?" rather than "Wow, didn't see that coming. What a neat twist."

That said, seeing SO blow his brains out rather than continue to spout the pre-canned dialogue given to him was very neat. I liked Spector's death scene. And I'm kind of glad to learn that Gregg's just been a looney-toon pervert all along. That's really more cheerful, let's face it, than that he's secretly been an elite uberspy (yawn).

All of which, of course, ignores the fact that Mozza still has a whole issue with which to stand everything on its head. Which, given that he could've just stopped the series with the ending of #12, implies to me that there's still a big reality-shift to come. I'm anticipating something akin to the last issue of (Morrison's) Doom Patrol, but prolly not so graceful.
 
 
finger n' thump
20:49 / 17.08.03
I'd be surprised if the realisation that gregg is just a perv is a revalation to anyone; Morrison has said several times, that this comic is about a man, his mind and his dying cat and how he deals with those three things; body, mind, other.
 
 
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02:35 / 18.08.03
I hope in issue #13 they say what the point of Sharon Jones is, because at the moment I still don't see it.
 
 
DaveBCooper
08:56 / 18.08.03
Well, I’ll cheerfully admit that I was having A LOT of trouble understanding what was going on here. Maybe I need to go back and re-read all my old issues to help with that, but as with New X-Men, I’m having trouble actually figuring out what’s going on, despite the clarity of the artwork.

My particular problem is with the page where Greg goes into the kitchen (about three pages from the end) when the doorbell’s ringing. In one panel, he has his left hand holding the pen (was the big severed Hand with pen in hand in previous issues left or right ? Just curious), and his right hand… well, it appears to be in the kitchen bin. Is he throwing something away ? The headache packets ? The notes he’s been writing ?
And then he … well, I guess he has some kind of pain in his stomach, it doesn’t seem too clear to me – the ‘action/impact lines’ are mainly behind him, if memory serves (don’t have the issue to hand), which actually made me think that someone/something was dealing him a blow to the gut. So much of the drama of that event was lost whilst I thought ‘what?’

Chris Weston and Gary Erskine are very good artists, I feel, but some of this series has lacked a sort of narrative choreography that carries the eye seamlessly from one panel to the next, conveying the action (as I say, New X-Men’s got this problem at the moment, and I think Bachalo’s a decent artist too). To be honest, I have this problem with Moebius’s art, too, so it’s not as if they’re in poor company….
 
 
FinderWolf
14:01 / 18.08.03
Awwww, man, why did Cameron Spector (wonder if she was named after Cameron Stewart) have to die all sudden like that? I liked her, she was cool. Maybe Cameron had to die because of what Kaballic sphere she represented?

Best bit for me was the box of "SCORN FLAKES" in Greg's kitchen.

I feel like this issue was kind of a bit all over the place without much seeming point to it. Altho' with Greg's suicide attempt, I'm recalling a line in a recent Morrison convention bit where he said that during the course of writing THE FILTH he felt inspired to jump out the window of an LA hotel and end it all. (The mention of this was not a direct quote but a rather tossed-off comment in a paragraph about his recent con appearances)
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:36 / 18.08.03
Well, the hand's tally, I've just gone back and checked and it was a giant left hand holding the pen. I'm not yet willing to believe that the last 12 issues were just a dream Greg had in between watching pets die, overdosing on aspirin and waiting for stomach cancer to kill him, if nothing else Hand policy seems to be imprinting these personalities on dying people presumerably so they don't grow to be a threat to the organisation. I presume that after dealing with Hughes (and I agree with what houdini said about that being a disappointment) Greg got caught by the Hand anyway and sent back to his little flat to die. Strangely humane of them considering that every other threat to Status Q has been killed promptly.

I didn't really see the point of the comic characters bits but then didn't like that particular thread anyway and saw it as a particularly mastabatory act on Grant's part. And what/how/why did Adam do anyway?

As ever, this has been yet another example for Chris Weston to show his stuff. His artwork continues to outshine Grant's scripts and I hope that when this is finished I'll get to see more of it.
 
 
PatientZERO
20:58 / 18.08.03
"if nothing else Hand policy seems to be imprinting these personalities on dying people presumerably so they don't grow to be a threat to the organisation. I presume that after dealing with Hughes (and I agree with what houdini said about that being a disappointment) Greg got caught by the Hand anyway and sent back to his little flat to die. Strangely humane of them considering that every other threat to Status Q has been killed promptly"

Seeing as how the lead detective banging on Feeleys' door looks suspiciously like Ned Slade, I'd wager you are correct
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
22:30 / 18.08.03
Well, I think that's a bit of a leap, seeing as it's one picture and at some distance from the back of the guys head, and looking at it now he could have a full head of hair, there's no way to tell.

Why did only Greg's hair grow back, and to the same sort of comb-over state of issue 1, why didn't he grow out a beard or 'tache?
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
03:37 / 19.08.03
Dave, as you’ve probably twigged by now, what’s happening on that page is, as Greg stands up to go to the door, all the paracetemol he swallowed starts to kick in, and he begins to lose consciousness. (He’s taken a good deal more than is needed to just cure a headache – he’s committing suicide, of course, poor old sod. Hence the note he’s writing, and his “I’ll see you soon Tony” line.) As his knees give way, he grabs the bin, and topples it over as he falls to the kitchen lino.


That second panel recreates the dizziness and loss of balance that precede falling unconscious very well, I think. Nice one, Weston.

For some reason, I didn’t get that Greg was doing himself in, either, the first time I read it. When I saw all the empty paracetemol packets I just thought “Oh, Greg must have a bad headache”! The “see you soon” line went past me. “Why’s Greg falling down?” Duh!

And for a while I didn’t cop that he was breaking Cameron’s neck in the previous scene.

I think maybe my subconscious was trying to protect me from the bleakness of this issue, ease me gradually into the horror and despair. There was hardly fuck-all jokes to dilute the misery this time.

The only thing I didn’t understand about the story this issue is why Mercury starts sucking S.O.’s cock in that scene. ?
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
03:45 / 19.08.03
When Tony died in issue 9, I thought that Greg had hit bottom. I expected that the remainder of the series would, ultimately, describe an up-turn in Greg’s life. The reappearance of bio-ship Sharon Jones even caused me to imagine that the I-Life creatures would somehow be involved in the resurrection of Tony.

So the events of issue 12 came as a surprise to me.

“Well,” I said to myself, “Can’t get any worse than this. Issue 13 must be when things start to get better.”

But thinking about it… What if the Hand just stick some other poor fucker with the Greg/ Ned parapersona, and issue 13 consists of Greg/ Ned starting over again, unaware of everything that’s gone before? That’d be worse. That’d be hell.

…I keep coming back to Tony in my head, though. There was blood under his travel-box in the apartment, but no sign of a corpse. Spartacus/ Max said he’d sold him to “evil vivisectionists”, but that seems unlikely, more like something to say to make Greg unhappy. Maybe the I-Life creatures healed Tony, and he escaped?

I suppose he’s a bit of a Schrodingers’s cat at the moment. Both alive and dead until we open up issue 13 and collapse the whatchamacallit.

Or maybe we’re not going to find out at all. That way, the events of issue 13 could be even more upsetting and unhappy – but by leaving the question of Tony’s condition up in the air, we get to collapse the whatchamacallit ourselves, use our imagination to determine whether he lives or dies. Imagination redeeming the world, some little bit.

Would the possibility of an I-life afterlife for Tony make the re-introduction of Sharon Jones seem less trivial, Sypha?
 
 
finger n' thump
08:13 / 19.08.03
The only thing I didn’t understand about the story this issue is why Mercury starts sucking S.O.’s cock in that scene. ?

lol!
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:35 / 19.08.03
Sex and death?

So all that's left is the mystery of Mother Dirt and Le Pen. Given Grant's fondness for 're-visiting' ideas from his earlier work, are MD and LP both aspects of Greg, trapped in his own creation? It might explain why there have been so many direct threats to The Hand itself in the series, MD and LP have spiritual cancer and want release so Greg can finally die.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
17:48 / 19.08.03
doesn't anyone think that the Hand is actually Greg's hand, that the people "in" the hand are the micro-organisms controlling Greg's actions?

to him, they are tiny creatures that influence his decisions/control his identity; to THEM, his is the giant hand of god that created the[ir] entire universe.

so then it works both in the scifi universe of the comic and the metaphor of bacteria controlling each of us.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:49 / 19.08.03
I saw Moog seemingly giving S.O. a blow job (?!!?!?) but I didn't notice that Greg breaks Cameron's neck. I thought she just died superfast of cancer.

Maybe Sharon Jones will return. If she doesn't, she was sort of pointless.
 
 
diz
18:52 / 19.08.03
The "flip-flop" of making Hughes spontaneously a Baddy as soon as Gregg became a Goody so's they could fight all over again seemed quite forced to me, and I'm not very convinced that it really arises as an organic part of the narrative.

well, they've always flip-flopped. that's the point. they can't stay on the same side. they are, somehow, opposite poles of ... something. still working on that part.

I'd be surprised if the realisation that gregg is just a perv is a revalation to anyone; Morrison has said several times, that this comic is about a man, his mind and his dying cat and how he deals with those three things; body, mind, other.

i'm surprised that people seem to be taking this as an either/or with this issue as a definite resolution, that either the Hand (et al) is real or it's a delusion of Greg's. i don't think he's "really" one or the other.

i'm not sure what the hell's going on in this comic, honestly, but i think that i want to use these as jumping-off points:

- the seeming Hughes/Slade polarity

- the ink from the pen. i can't find that issue and i have no recollection whatsoever of what specifically happened with the giant pen

- the comic book universe, probably with due consideration to the fact that the comic book universe is a comic-book universe relative to the reality of the main story of The Filth, which itself is in a comic-book universe relative to us.

- Bio-Ship Sharon Jones. i think if there's an i-Life/Status Q polarity, then Sharon Jones, an ordinary person infected by an i-Life persona, is an emerging antithesis to the Hand agents, who are ordinary people infected by their personas.

- Dimitri 9. it just occurred to me: how do we know that Dimitri 9 was who he thought he was? what if he was an ordinary chimp infected with the Dimitri persona? was his name in the bottles in #11? is Grant trying to say something about the evolution of human consciousness?

- Man Green/Man Yellow. what the fuck was that all about?

- the opposition between i-Life and enforcement of Status Q. Status Q is like the immune system of reality, which purges, and i-Life is the oposite strategy: assimilation / co-existence. on some level, it seems to me that i-Life is the ultimate violation of Status Q, which leads me to the hunch that somehow this is all some kind of bizarre recursive murder mystery - who really killed Dr. Soon and why? or something...

i'm also enjoying working with the idea that this is the flipside to The Invisibles, the Qlippoth to the the Sephiroth. most of the parallels are obvious, but the ones striking me right now are:

- the visual similarity between Greg Feely and the negative future self-image of King Mob glimpsed briefly when Quimper is giving him a dirty mindjob in Black Science 2. i was re-reading the trade recently, and when i saw that frame of KM gone middle-aged, overweight and balding and sitting in his own filth (!) watching TV and thinking about how meaningless his life has become and how he vaguely remembers that he used to care about things, i was struck by how much he looked like Greg.

- parallels i'm seeing between Jolly Roger and Cameron Spector, especially in their deaths.

- similarities between Man Green / Man Yellow and the Harlequinade, which in and of itself is something i have difficulty getting a grip on.
 
 
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03:56 / 20.08.03
Don't forget Feely writing how he planned on being like James Bond, but it didn't work out taht way... Or him holding a scorpian gun in the previous issue.
 
 
The Falcon
13:09 / 20.08.03
Atom-Avenger's Thermovolver (real...) actually.

Same gun Dmitri used to kill 'Evil Greg' last ish.

Same gun S.O. used to kill himself. Forgive me for pointing out the blindingly obvious, but S.O. is patently Superman, down to the lick of hair. Adam 'n' Eve, Clark 'n' Lois. So, is this the first step - or second, if we count the conclusion of Animal Man - to giving DC Comics sentience?
 
 
--
17:01 / 20.08.03
In response to the sarcastic topic abstract, I'd just like to say I didn't purposely set out to not have an abstract, in my haste to post the topic I just forgot to have one.
 
 
Warewullf
20:46 / 20.08.03
- Bio-Ship Sharon Jones. i think if there's an i-Life/Status Q polarity, then Sharon Jones, an ordinary person infected by an i-Life persona, is an emerging antithesis to the Hand agents, who are ordinary people infected by their personas.


Ok, so i assumed that Hughes had gone to Greg's place looking for him but he wasn't there, so Hughes just killed Sharon Jones for the sheer hell of it, but was he sent there by the Hand because Sharon Jones, as a bio-ship, was upsetting Status:Q?
I mean, it's not exactly normal to have someone like that walking around in the world, especially as she's not aligned with The Hand and we know they don't like free agents.

Also, is Sharon Jones meant to be a more "in your face" version of the whole "bacteria really control us" thing? I mean, think about it, Morrison implied that we can't really be sure of our actions as they may simply be ideas sent to us by the trillions of bacteia in our body.
Ms. Jones actually has little microscopic people inside her that really do control her actions. She has only fleeting control over her own body ("Please help me...")

Or has everyone else already figured this out and I'm just really slow?
 
 
the Fool
21:31 / 20.08.03
Ok, so i assumed that Hughes had gone to Greg's place looking for him but he wasn't there, so Hughes just killed Sharon Jones for the sheer hell of it, but was he sent there by the Hand because Sharon Jones, as a bio-ship, was upsetting Status:Q?

Sharon was at Ned's house not Greg's. And I don't think Hughes really cares about Status Q. The killing of Sharon was just a way to hurt Greg/Ned, and a weird shag.

If Hughes is Greg's 'other' perhaps they represent the anti-kether of the Qlippothic tree, which if I remember correctly is eternal division/conflict without resolution. I thought this was originally the Greg/Ned division, but as Greg/Ned assimilate each other, the other moves to a new body, and keeps jumping from body to body as each 'other' is destroyed denying any resolution to the conflict.
 
  

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