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Mars Warning

 
  

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Quantum
12:58 / 08.08.03
Mars is the closet it's been to Earth for at least five thousand years (details in the lab), is it just me that is worried about the onset of war? Do you think it has any magical significance?

I hope August passes without catastrophe, and it's just a pretty red light in the sky, but whatever happens it's better to be aware. You are now aware.
 
 
Quantum
13:12 / 08.08.03
Ignore the other thread (stoopid compooter)
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
15:44 / 08.08.03
Well, about a month ago I saw a blood moon, but that doesn't mean much.
Mars=war/violence/upset/revolution
However, my estimates say the next big year for this stuff is 2006, not 2003. Now, it's been a peculiar year, sure, but my last estimate (2002) was rather accurate. Maybe this has to do with setting uyp events that will occur then...
 
 
Bloody Chiclitz
17:14 / 08.08.03
A quick question: why do you think Mars would have an effect on war on Earth? I'm not asking this as a debunker of astrology, but rather I'm interested in the rationale of the HOW of it. Is it because of the traditional association of Mars with war, and the fact that humans know of the association, so that when it comes close they subconsciously begin to act more bellicose? Or is it something more metaphysical, like "the universe is laid out according to a big plan, and we can read that plan on the macroscopic level of stars and planets and thus interpret what will happen on the microscopic level of our own lives." I guess in the latter instance I'm asking if you believe that Mars is associated with war for any empirical reason (the pattern of the universe) or if you believe that the association itself is what gives Mars its influence on this aspect of human affairs.
 
 
h3r
20:44 / 08.08.03
I agree with 2006 rather than this year for the grander "war" scenarios.

In regards to "onset of war", there have been wars going on over the past couple of years!

I don't think mars being close can be directly interpreted as "war on earth is imminent".
 
 
gotham island fae
20:46 / 08.08.03
One thing regarding this Martial proximity that I learned, yesterday, is that it will be in Pisces (not the most violent or expansive of signs) until mid-December. Additionally, it just turned retrograde and stays there til late September. What this may mean is that traditional uses of force and energy are not as likely to succeed. Pretty much a 'sit back and meditate' moment astrologically.
 
 
gotham island fae
20:50 / 08.08.03
Oh. And it conjuncts with Uranus on the next new moon, too. Uranus (rejection of old ways) aligned with Mars (energy/force use) aligned in Pisces (end of the Zodiac cycle) on the new moon (end/beginning).

I actually kinda think that we're in for a completely new perspective to arise, rather than more resurgence of the conqueror mindset so prevelant over the past two years...
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
20:55 / 08.08.03
August 6, 1945, at precisely 8:16 am, the first atomic bomb exploded
in Hiroshima, Japan. Three days later a second atomic bomb exploded in Nagasaki.

August 12, 1953. The Soviet Union explodes their first H-Bomb. It is announced on August 20, 1953. It is later discovered this is not a true H-Bomb.

August 26, 1957. The Soviet Union announces the successful launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile.

August 24, 1968. France tests its first hydrogen bomb at Fangataufa Atoll in the South Pacific. It has a yield of 2.6 megatons.

March 23, 1983. President Ronald Reagan announces the United States will embark on an extensive research and development program to examine the feasibility of a missile defense program. The Strategic Defense Initiative is later dubbed "Star Wars."

March 20, 2003. Day 555 following the attacks on September 11, 2001. Iraq war begins.

August 27, 2003. Mars comes closest to Earth it has been in tens of thousands of years. Day 160 following the commencement of war on Iraq.

So, where are all the curious numerologists?
 
 
Seth
15:52 / 09.08.03
Volta.

Bar.

Upial.

Can't you see the connections?

It's the end of the world!

No, wait. It isn't.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:09 / 09.08.03
This thread conjuncts with Uranus.

(Yeah I know, too obvious, too wrong, it just had to come out people)
 
 
gotham island fae
16:54 / 09.08.03
Had a flash, just now. If what I conject above has merit, the sit and meditate vibe I spoke of is only gonna be played by the NU skool type. *OL'CORE thought will likely jump into action. In response to Uranus.

*sorry, I couldn't resist

So, maybe !!WAR!!! is cumming, but only in a last spurt before the NU Aeon of Light, Lovely Fluff and JOY.

Please fill your own CORE.
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
23:37 / 09.08.03
War can't be coming. War is right here, sitting in the living room, smoking cigars and drinking brandy, telling stories about how it never really ended.
 
 
Quantum
10:10 / 11.08.03
Well there are dire warnings coming out of Uranus... enough already.
I don't think we're facing the end of the world, I just thought it might indicate more war this month. Maybe it's because I'm a Pisces it affects me (because it's up my anus astrologically speaking), never mind.

I'm interested in the rationale of the HOW of it Bloody Chiclitz
I've thought long and hard about this. The magical explanation is simple (as above so below) but there is a plausible mundane reason. Bear with me...

So, ancient peoples develop systems of understanding the world based on pragmatism, by observing what goes on. For example, Og eats the red berries and dies screaming, Ug eats the purple berries and is fine, we learn to eat purple berries and avoid red. The how of it (the chemical composition of the toxins etc) won't be discovered for centuries but the rule works. The same with a lot of other things, we see an event then another event consistently, we associate them, even if there's no clear causal chain.
We notice people born at the same time of year share certain character traits, and on further investigation the timing is important. How do we measure time before clocks? By celestial bodies (the sun dictates a day, the moon a month, etc.) which are our clock and calendar. We notice that people with an aggressive temperament often have Mars in the sky when they're born, we associate Mars with aggression.
I don't believe the planets exert some causal influence from millions of miles away, they simply are a traditional marker to make sense of the effect we see, people sharing traits.

Of course, we have no idea why people born at similar times share similar traits...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:22 / 11.08.03
we have no idea why people born at similar times share similar traits

Well it's probably the effect of the weather actually- late summer born children are less likely to be scared of thunderstorms. Your experience as a very small baby effects you massively and so temperature, amount of sunlight, the type of clothes you wear... these things create personality traits. Of course I'm just guessing here.

If the moon creates the tides through gravitational pull then why wouldn't the planets effect people in some way?
 
 
penitentvandal
10:52 / 11.08.03
Well, there's been a spot of rioting in Iraq recently, and the British government has apparently authorised the police to shoot to kill any suspected terrorists due to some unspecific 'imminent terrorist threat' on British soil...
 
 
Quantum
15:01 / 11.08.03
shoot to kill any suspected terrorists? shit, I'm getting rid of my balaclava. That's extremely worrying, more so than the unspecified terrorist threat.

Anna, the seasonal thing isn't really a viable explanation as the weather changes so much, and astrology is international- a baby born in southern spain with the same horoscope as a baby in Sweden will share traits, despite different weather. It's the most plausible explanation without resort to occult sympathies though :-)

"If the moon creates the tides through gravitational pull then why wouldn't the planets effect people in some way?"
The moon has a big effect on the seas because they're vast, people aren't affected by the moon's gravity IMO (but are by the moon's image, full moon effect etc). It's the biggest nearby thing, and the slight affect it could possibly have is massively greater than that of the planets.
The nearest planets are Venus and Mars, about the size of Earth, and they are *very* far away. Venus is 25 million miles away and is 7,500 miles across, Mars is 50 million miles away and is 4,000 miles across. (The moon is 2,000 miles across and 240,000 miles away)

Think of it like this, if Venus and Earth were the size of oranges (let's say 7.5cm) then to scale Venus would be 250 metres away, compared to the moon at 2.4 metres away. There's no significant gravitational effect from the planets. details if you care.

So any effect Mars has will be psychological or astrological. It looks pretty though.
 
 
LVX23
23:58 / 11.08.03
The moon has a big effect on the seas because they're vast, people aren't affected by the moon's gravity IMO

The moon has a large effect on the seas because the moon is vast, not the seas. The seas are simply liquid so they move more readily in response to gravity than solids do. Proportionately, the movement of an ocean due to the lunar pull is no more than the movement of a glass of water by the same force.

Humans (and all life) are mostly liquid. The cell itself is mostly liquid - and saline, at that. Simply put, the sea flows within us all. The Lunar tug of gravity exerts it's effects on us considerably, as do the gravitational forces of all the planets, though to less and less degrees.

Einstein showed that the gravity exerted by an object drops with distance but never reaches zero. Therefore, every body in the universe - even the most minute - is gently tugging on every other body.
 
 
Quantum
08:31 / 12.08.03
Proportionately, the movement of an ocean due to the lunar pull is no more than the movement of a glass of water by the same force.
My italics. Ever noticed the tide in a glass of water? Or your own body? No. The moon effectively decreases gravity as it opposes the earth's pull, but not very much, only enough to affect huge bodies of fluids a little.
Yes, everything is gravitationally affected by everything else, but it operates at the inverse square of distance, the effect exponentially decreases the further away you get. So for example your PC is exerting more gravitational influence on you than any of the planets.
I believe in astrology, but I don't believe it's caused by gravity, or that there's a plausible scientific explanation for any direct effect from the planets. How would feeling slightly lighter influence your personality?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
09:21 / 12.08.03
Okay, where's the proof that character traits are shared by people across the world? Are you sure, absolutely certain, that it isn't wishful thinking?
 
 
Quantum
11:18 / 12.08.03
Could be wishful thinking, upon reflection I'm not sure how much chinese astrology shares with western astrology. But consider the weather now with the weather on the same date a few years ago (it was rainy and cold here in the UK as I remember), too much variance to cause similar personality traits.
Astrology is difficult to verify scientifically, Eysenck and Mayo thought they had. Hans Eysenck (invented Introversion/Extroversion) was challenged by astrologer Jeff Mayo to do a study, the rigorous study he did showed significantly that star sign and personality traits were linked. Then a load of other studies showed no significant link, so really it's unproven either way.
Beyond the difficulties of proving it's validity, there's no scientific explanation for how it works- seasonal variation, gravity, physical cycles etc. are all implausible theories to a hard scientist IMO.
My theory doesn't explain *how* it works, just that the relation between the planets and the personalities is coincidental not causal. (Coincidental in the sense they are seen together, not in the synchronicity sense of meaningful coincidence)
Maybe the Earth's magnetic field goes through cycles and interacts with the solar magnetosphere to influence the zygote and foetus. Maybe the electrochemical development of the brain is affected by the seasonal diet (or used to be). Maybe the length of day and night have a subtle effect on the mother and that affects the baby, we just don't know.
The best way to understand astrology IMO is on it's own terms. Why does having Mars in your chart make you more aggressive? Because Mars rules aggression. Newton famously said to the sceptical Liebniz about astrology "I, sir, have studied it. You have not."

A quick google turned up this group from the university of Southampton, lots of good references there.

LVX23, the point about gravity put more eloquently (from http://www.nous.org.uk/gravity.html);
"How come the seas are affected by the Sun and Moon? Yes, it's gravity. Why does it have such an effect? Because the seas are really substantial masses, and gravitational attraction is directly proportional to the product of the masses concerned.
A person, in the cosmic scheme of things, is not a substantial mass. So the gravitational effect is negligible: that which can rationally be neglected. Even if there were an effect, what would it be like? Microscopically higher blood pressure on one side of my body? Until I happen to turn round?
"The effects of gravity... decrease as the square of the distance between two objects... The practical import of this is that the gravitational effects of the stars and planets on a newborn are essentially nonexistent. A mother holding her infant in her arms exerts a gravitational influence on the child that is twenty times greater than the gravitational influence of the planet Mars."
Hines (1988, p.147)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:43 / 12.08.03
Sorry, I'll tell you now, I can't provide any links because this is just a vague memory. But I remember reading an article in... I'm not sure, Fortean Times or Nexus or somewhere like that, in which the theory was put forward that traits associated with star signs are the result of antibodies passed on to the foetus, what with viruses (generally the multitude of harmless ones) being seasonal and all- therefore it's more to do with when the baby is unborn and susceptible than the actual moment of birth. I seem to remember they didn't give too much empirical evidence for this, but it seemed worth further thought.
 
 
cusm
14:17 / 12.08.03
I tend to think of it this way: The more in tune you are with an escoteric system, the more it affects you. If you are aware of astrology and pay attention to it, you will be affected by it. This is in part due to the psychological response of becoming what the horoscopes tell you you are, and in part due to a more general resonance with the planatary forces in question. Thus the only objective test of planatary forces affecting personality would have to be drawn from people with zero understanding of astrology, including knowledge of their own sign. Lacking this, we can only go by the trend that people who study astrology will become more as their chart says they are destined to be. We fit to the pattern, the pattern doesn't mold us. We bring the microcosm into tune with the macrocosm, so as to receive both vulnerability to and benefit from the macrocosm. And in a spiritual sense, our consciousness becomes tied to that of the stars. Not really a bad deal, overall, which is no doubt why so many do so.

Now keep in mind how many people do pay attention to this, and whose consciousness will feel compelled to comply with the Martial influence at hand. It might not start new wars, but it is likely to cause highway driving to become more hazardous.
 
 
h3r
19:14 / 12.08.03
cusm: The more in tune you are with an escoteric system, the more it affects you. If you are aware of astrology and pay attention to it, you will be affected by it.

I disagree here somewhat....
I dont think that alstrology patterns have more or less influence/power depending on beliefs or knowledge of individuals. I don't deny that "self fulfilling prophecies" do exist, but astrology can not be summed up as that.
I agree that the positions/relationships of stars do not dictate, govern or force our behavior in any ways. But I believe they can give clues into how we behave and also are likely to behave. So in some ways they are valueable tools (like other divination systems, or also like any other pattern in nature) to show microcosm/macrocosm relationships, or also trends in our societies politics, in an individuals life,etc.
Whether an indiviual (or an organismn, or even a rock) pays attention to the stars does not influence the relationships that can be extracted through analysis of nature's patterns by a third party.
does this make sense?
Yes, we fit to the pattern, the pattern doesn't mold us.
yes, we bring the microcosm into tune with the macrocosm.
But no, our consciousness DOES NOT becomes tied to that of the stars due to our awareness or knowledge of astrology. I believe it is tied to the stars whether or not we believe, are aware of it, or live ignorant lives ( ignorant of astrology that is, dont mean to judge people who dont care about strology)
 
 
gotham island fae
01:09 / 13.08.03
A#1: Wouldn't suggest that astrological influence is in any way solely gravitational. Ya deal with subtle energies, here. Yeah the computer'll have more gravitational influence, maybe (don't know the math). However, the stars and celestial bodies have been around for a dam site longer, therefore having temporal influence, as well, mayhap. I'm only beginning to understand TIME's spiritual web. The scientifically mangled symmetry of EMIT eludes me even further.

I don't ever Know, I only ever conject.
 
 
Quantum
11:55 / 13.08.03
Thus the only objective test of planatary forces affecting personality would have to be drawn from people with zero understanding of astrology, including knowledge of their own sign
That's what they did to make it a blind study, check out the link above.
 
 
FinderWolf
01:30 / 16.08.03
Anyone wonder about the magickal implications of the blackouts? Seems more like the work of Eris to me than Mars, but I was wondering how the blackouts fit might be seen in a magickal culture context.
 
 
cusm
16:49 / 18.08.03
Considering the blackout hit as I was charging the sigel for a servitor, I wonder that a bit myself... But in a new thread please, unless anyone can blame the blackouts on Mars?
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
19:51 / 18.08.03
Five Thousand?

The papers in these parts are touting "60,000 years" - which of course would bring us to the speculated "Atlantis" period.

Yes - far more ominous. Mars is the one God I have troubles dealing with. The energies/events associated with the Red Planet are disturbing.

What's the story with the discovery of the 2 new moons (bringing the total up to 4) Is that strange or what?

Speaking of associations: Mars not only governs over War,etc. as well as summer heat - the influence being exerted over Europe @ the moment?

And yuh...Way to go Spyder. You are dead on concernig 2006 - though 2003 is symbolic of the dread 23 - the year associated to HEX 23 of the I Ching is indeed 2006.Nice work.

So...
Are we screwed? (again?)
 
 
h3r
20:13 / 18.08.03
the Atlantis reference makes a lot of sense.
wow. that does have some serious implications, or at least opens my imagination to some interesting possibilities....

I dont think that the physical proximity of mars to our planet is a danger in itself, but it is true that the Atlanteans did manage to nuke themselves last time Mars was that close.
I would say that we are VERY LIKELY to do the same. I mean the proof is all around us anyways. not necessarily only nuclear weaponry, theres more possibilities to create global disaster. Vulcanoes ARE errupting all over the place with both increasing frequency and intensity.

On a positive side, I do not think that the Atlans did have any historic precedence to learn from, so we have a bit of an advantage. Maybe our civilization will manage to prevail this time around.
On the other hand, maybe some cleansing is necessary, and a completely new situation might be the only breeding ground for a healthier & more wholesome strain of this species.

I have a new respect and understanding for Mars.
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
22:24 / 18.08.03
Don't worry about this August 27th. Worry about the things living 25,695 years from now. Mars will be nearly two million miles closer to Earth at that time.

More to the point, is it being suggested that segments of humanity are sick and dirty? Or am I reading that wrong?
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
22:28 / 18.08.03
I suddenly struck me that August 27th, being the day that Mars gets closest to Earth this cycle around, should also be the end of the Chinese Ghost Month (see related thread), the day when all the spirits released from Hell are sent back.
 
 
h3r
00:28 / 19.08.03
"More to the point, is it being suggested that segments of humanity are sick and dirty? Or am I reading that wrong?"


yup we're sick and dirty.
of course that always depends on the point of reference.
although:
despite my earlier suggestion that there might be something "wrong" with us as a species , i dont believe that there really is a "problem" or that anything needs "fixing".
its all good, and it's all taking the course that it needs to take.
nevertheless, there are lots of people on this planet that do not enjoy their existence.
I would say that's not a good thing.
some cleaning up wouldnt be such a bad idea...

Mars, do come and cleanse us ! !
 
 
FinderWolf
16:22 / 19.08.03
I kept thinking "remember how Grant Morrison predicted a 'pastoral', low-technology vibe for this next period?" well, last night was about as 'pastoral' and lo-tech as you could get here in NYC. I'm sure some interesting, art, movies, stories & photographs will come out of this historic event.

I think Morrison also mentioned something about a psychedelic vibe coming out of pop culture at this time ... I'm assuming the so-called psychedelic/"tie-dyed" M&Ms with the rainbow pieces of colored shell are but a small bit of this
 
 
eye landed
00:52 / 20.08.03
The Scottish mathematician Laurence Edwards discovered in the 1980s that the winter buds of leaf trees are pulsating rhythmically, reflecting the movements of the planets of our solar system. In this way, the oak, for example, particularly responds to the movements and positions of planet mars while beech responds primarily to saturn, birch to venus, and elm to mercury.

http://spirit-of-trees.net/Living_spirit_e.html

Trees are good subjects for testing how planets can have an effect without any knowledge of astrology involved. I learned this from a book called The Spirit of Trees by Fred Hageneder. It includes more information and pictures. It suggests that trees respond to planetary conjunctions, and that different species are ruled by different planets. If this doesn't go a long way to explaining ancient symbolic tree alphabets, then you're just not trying.

The power drain in eastern North America happened on my birthday (on which I began my 23rd year). On that day, I also rode in a car along a street with a blood moon at the end of it. From my personal experience in the recent past, I agree that retrograde Mars indicates cleansing.

On another topic that has come up, we don't know how gravity affects our minds because we don't know how minds manifest physically. Perhaps they are so small or so big that they are particularly sensitive to gravity, or to the gravitational movement of things around them. If our watery brain moves a fraction of a micron due to to Mars' gravity, it might have a huge effect on the mind that visits there (the brain). Also, we understand water very little, and many of its mysteries are tied in with occultism. Why do water molecules form Plantonic solids? Why does water retain "liquid crystal" memory of things dissolved in it? Why does it freeze in lattices? Why is its melting point so high, considering it's such a small molecule? Anyway, the moon's influence could come entirely second-hand from its effects on large bodies of water. In addition, the moon's gravity is most visible in ocean tides, but it bends the solid part of the earth, too.

And on a third topic, I think the stars and planets themselves can affect the personality through perfectly normal sensory means. Cultures, as conglomerations of minds, create mythologies which are often somehow connected with the stars. Assuming that the visible positions of the stars are more fundamental beliefs than any cultural belief, these mythologies must be tailored--to a certain extent--to the preexisting conditions. Thus, the positions of the stars affect cultural mythology. Different cultures, in different parts of the world, will have different mythologies. I would think it obvious that there are more factors at work than the positions of the stars, but I propose that it is one of the influences.

If cultural mythology can be affected by stars, why not personal mythology (personality)? An individual born at a certain time will see the sky in a certain way at a specific time in his or her life. Someone born a day later will see the same sky a day earlier relative to his or her life. If biological clocks are infinitely-but-immesurably precise (quite a presumption, but somewhat plausible considering how rough astrological calculation is), then the exact time of birth would alter the vision of the sky at certain key moments during life. A person will look into the sky during a certain cusp or crisis, and the answers--or further questions--will lie somewhere in the stars. Whether Taurus or Scorpio is staring back at them would alter the way he or she thinks about whatever is on his or her mind. This would explain personality differences based on time of year, time of day, and visible planets (including the sun and moon). It doesn't explain planets beyond Saturn or other non-visible phenomena.
 
 
eye landed
00:58 / 20.08.03
There's also the pineal gland, but I don't know much about that.
 
  

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