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I'm gonna summon THE BATMAN!

 
  

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penitentvandal
18:16 / 21.07.03
Okay, so as some of y'all know I've been running an ongoing Morrison/Quitely invocation (essentially imagining my life as a comic, and writing various ad campaigns, blurbs, interviews, fake lettercols/threads, etc to back up the contention) to make my life a bit more interesting. And then I read about Morrison's 2-year exclusive contract with DC, and that got me thinkin'.

If Morrison's back at DC - exclusively back at DC - then I guess we have to assume that, in order for him to keep writing Aeon (the fictional name I bestowed upon the metafictional comic of my life), then the Aeon universe has to be, in some way, owned by DC - sort of like ABC, Wildstorm, etc. Which is fair enough. But this can lead to an interesting situation, allowing one to play on GM's Filth-outlined riffs of interaction with fictional universes. It goes a bit like this:

1) 'My' universe is, in this magickal scenario, owned by DC comics.
2) However, the relationship between 'my' comicverse and the DCU is rendered more problematic than that between, say, DC and Wildstorm, or DC and ABC, because 'characters' in 'my' universe can actually read DC comics, and find out what happens in the DCU. Which DCU characters can't.
3) This means that any team-ups/crossovers/etc between characters in 'my' universe (e.g. me) and DCU characters (e.g. Batman) would have to be very weird indeed. In order for a crossover between me and Batman to take place in the DCU, I'd have to insert myself into the universe as a ficsuit - with the result that, for story purposes, I would essentially be one of those weird, ultra-powerful spooky characters like the Phantom Stranger. I could disappear, walk off the page, go back to my own universe and get stuff that would be useful, see the future, know all the characters' secrets, etc.
By contrast, because 'my' universe regards the DCU characters as fictional, any Batman/Velvetvandal team-up taking place in 'my' universe would have to take place in some kind of fictional context - a dream, a hallucination, or what have you. So if, say, I have a team-up with Batman in Gotham and he decides to follow me to my reality, he would have to appear in a dream, or something.

Which is exactly what I plan to do. I'm working on the script for a Batman/Velvetvandal team-up set in Gotham, as an invocatory experiment designed to provoke Batman into following me into some level of this reality. The story also allows me to get rid of a servitor I've been meaning to decommission for a while (in a suitably dramatic fashion) and lay down some good vibes for my next poetry collection into the bargain. And I get to deepen the Morrison invocation as well, which has the added bonus of meaning I get to interact with the cool-as-ice Morrison Batman from JLA.

Just thought I'd brag about my plan, while at the same time asking for any input anyone has that'd be helpful. If anyone else has ever tried (or wants to try) anything similar, maybe we could thrash out some ideas here, too. Barbelith/X-men? Hmmm.
 
 
cusm
18:37 / 21.07.03
Batman is right smart. If he figures out how the Velvet Phantom (or whatever suit you use) managed to enter his reality through meditative narrative techniques, Batman might well employ the same technique to enter yours by writing up a story and putting himself into a deep trance. So, you'd only have to give him the clues and enough reason to do it, and you can sfely assume he'll figure it out and do it. That is, assuming the reason is enough that you know he would do it. It'd have to be something good. Batman wouldn't do it unless it was either to stop some threat to Gotham from your universe, or to shut YOU down so YOU couldn't threathen Gotham. So, I'd watch out for that. Batmas isn't one for sight seeing. If he's coming here, its to punch someone in the head
 
 
osymandus
19:42 / 21.07.03
He he about time we got some fun here !!

"Okay, so as some of y'all know I've been running an ongoing Morrison/Quitely invocation"


Uuh why would you want it so badly drawn ????
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
20:57 / 21.07.03
teehee, I'm with ozmandus, et a better artist...
But, i digress. See, this is why I enjoy having Bendis/Bagley do my life for the next few months, I really don't have to worry about multiversal crossovers. Imagine if Jim Starlin was doing it... ug...
And on Batman, the guy, while being extremely cool and scary as all hell, isn't big on the universe changes stuff (ignoring DC publishing/media moves for a moment) It might work better with someone else, less well liked but still really cool. Maybe J'onn J'onzz or Dr. Fate or someone. Fate would work well, especially with this Phantom Stranger idea of yours.
Of course, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to visit Gotham now...
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
20:59 / 21.07.03
Of course, Bendis doesn't want to write Batman, so if I do, I'll proably just drop by Sentinal instead.
 
 
cusm
21:06 / 21.07.03
Or Doc Strange. Now there's one who would know right what you're up to and be quite able to play along.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
00:54 / 22.07.03
However, velvetvandal has given me a genius idea!!! I, the Spyder, will travel to 1942, Earth 2, precrisis countuity, and visit the original chaos magician, Alan Scott, the golden age Green Lanturn! And if I bump into any other JSAers, so be it. I don't know why I'm going, but I am. Wish me luck! Or don't. Whatever.
 
 
the Fool
03:34 / 22.07.03
Be careful with how you decide to pull Bats into this reality, you don't want to 'smash him against the wall of heaven' ala Secret Original of the filth. Also how traumatic would it be to discover that wizard and previews magazine accurately tell your future for months to come...
 
 
C.Elseware
07:05 / 22.07.03
I thought about using comic characters a while back. I considered "Death of the Endless" from sandman. Not 'cus she's powerful (she is) but that she's so sensible. The ultimate big sister who knows and understands you completely and still loves you. And she tells people the truth with kindness.

However there are some obvious problems. One, she is still death. Probably bad to mess around with. Two, the entire 10 volume story of sandman starts with a mage attempting to summon death and fucking it up.

Better still, tie this in with the "magick in politics" thread and invoke Spider Jeruselem to watch over the next USA election and whatever it is that Tony "Smiler" Blair is up to. (GWB + Tony Blair + Bowel Disrupter heh heh)
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
10:58 / 22.07.03
Now, that's a good idea - although since Spider in our reality is Hunter Thompson already, why bother?

Summoning Batman, though - why? I mean, if you've been hideously wronged or are in fear of your life, sure. But for kicks or curiosity? Can you imagine how pissed off he'd be?
 
 
electric monk
11:54 / 22.07.03
I have to agree with the above-expressed sentiment that Batman is one bad motherfucker who'll likely kick the crap out of you. But I think I've got a clever workaround for ya: Use the 50's sci-fi era Batman! That particular incarnation thought nothing of getting taken to strange worlds by aliens/magical beings/what-have-you. Maybe you could summon Bat-Mite as a go-between? Just my two cents.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:42 / 22.07.03
Yeah, but that doesn't really answer the main question - why would you want to reach Batman? It's like dialling the fire service when there's nothing on fire. The guy's busy enough - leave him to it.
 
 
penitentvandal
13:58 / 22.07.03
Well, it's just that Bats is my favourite superhero, that's all. And I like the story I came up with for the team-up. And as to motivations for Batman coming to this universe - well, he's a detective, isn't he? When I show up in his reality, whisk off the supervillain servitor who's sneaked into his continuity, and leave Bats wondering wtf just happened, my guess is he's going to investigate. And, as has been pointed out, the man's capable of entering some kind of meditative state and manifesting somehow on this reality. And if he does come looking to sort me out, you need to bear in mind the First Rule of Team-Ups - the main characters always fight first, then discover some Ludicrous Threat that requires them to work together...

I'll bear in mind the Secret Original problem - as long as I allow Bats to stay fictional, I'm sure he'll be okay. And I'll try to keep him away from Wizard and Previews...

The more I think about this, though, the more I wonder if Batman's exactly right for a caper like this. For some reason Tom Strong just popped into my head as a more suitable candidate. He'd dig it, that's for sure. And his continuity's new enough that I could insert the supervillain servitor without much bother...

Of course, one could jump into the Bat-reality to establish continuity in case you ever did need Bats in the future - and then you could invoke him in a totally wacked-out, Silver Age stylee. Hmmm.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
14:01 / 22.07.03
Well, that was fun. I've never done the whole "Invisible's time travel using loas" thing before. Quite exhilarating, really. Anyway, I didn't actually get to 'meet' Green Lantern, as he and Sandman were getting their asses kicked by some mob boss with a magical artifact or something. However, I did manage to summon the Specter (which, in retrospect, was rather dangerous and stupid, oh well...) and he managed to save the day for them. Then, and this was the best part, in a cryptic sort of way, Jason Blood, THE Jason Blood (of 1942 Earth 2, anyway) approaches me and we talk. He must of known some weird future-alternate universe person would be dropping in or something. Just as I was leaving though, he called me by my birth name, which I didn't even tell him, and he said, "The gun will have 5 bullets." Then I returned. Now, this is really creepy, because whenever I dream about my own death, I'm always at a party or club or something, and someone walks in and shoots me a couple times. One bullet always misses, but I've never been able to keep track of how many others there are. So, what does everyone think?
 
 
penitentvandal
14:06 / 22.07.03
It does occur to me, though, that Batman coming to this reality in all his grim, cowled seriousness and discovering that I only invoked him because I thought it would be a laugh would be, well...a laugh. You can almost see the final scene:

Batman(scowls): You mean you didn't lead me here for any reason at all?

velvetvandal(smirking, hands spread flippantly): Well, no, not really. I just thought it'd be fun, that's all...

Batman: DAMN YOU!

Though of course, that would make me the Hypertime Era Bat-Mite...
 
 
penitentvandal
14:12 / 22.07.03
Jesus, Spyder, that is heavy.

Y'know, between you visiting the Golden Age DCUers and me messin' around with Bats (I did have some bat-related dreams last night, actually, but they weren't much to speak of), I have the horrible feeling we've unleashed some kind of mad crisis crossover thing with the DCU now.

In which case, you ought to be safe, because if your death is being hinted at so early, and so obviously, right at the start of the crisis, then it's almost certainly a red herring. Sure - the nightclub thing might happen, and the gun might have bullets - but it'll be somebody else who gets shot.

Heck - just summon Hal Jordan. He always gets killed in the crossovers...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:18 / 22.07.03
Of course it's Spyder who gets shot. It's also you, me, and anyone else who uses or has used fiction-magick in an Invisibles-ish way, or who deploys or invests in a system of belief and work which asserts that the identity we perceive is only a fiction or an aspect of a greater thing - from some forms of Buddhism to interpretations of Jung to Fiction Suits and so on. It's also Spyder who pulls the trigger, makes the arrest, and rises from the dead.

What's the point of doing this stuff if you continue to think in a linear, normative-world way?
 
 
penitentvandal
15:04 / 22.07.03
Well, if you want to get onto that level, obviously as a fraction of a self-aware universe Spyder is both the shooter and the shot; I was just pointing out an appropriate interpretation for this thread, based on some observed rules of the comic-book crossover:

1) If it seems like someone will obviously die at the end right from the start, that's obviously a red herring, and
2) If anyone's gonna die in a major crossover, it'll probably be Hal Jordan. Again.

I agree that from the ultimate, transcendental perspective then everything is the same thing; but I see magic as a process of putting self-defined, (and always, of course, eventually self-transcended) limits on this perspective in order to have fun with it. You can experience every word in the language if you read a dictionary; but you have to set rules and limitations onto that language to create poetry. You tune in to whatever level of reality you want at any given time.

I mean, gnostically we may very well be 5th-dimensional harlequins immersing ourselves in the universe for our own pleasure; but we experience time in a subjective mode most of the...er...time, so presumably we must have decided it was more fun that way, yeah?

Hmmm.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
15:55 / 22.07.03
So this is fictive/magickal tourism? The world as funpark?

[As an aside, I'm reminded of the extremely irritating 'imps' from the higher dimensions - where they apparently have no vowels - which crop up in some of Superman and the JLA's adventures.]

That's not much in the way of a 'team-up', is it? Now, if you were to inject yourself into a universe specifically in order to help the character fight a particular foe, that would make a certain amount of sense - except that you would be creating an adventure, and therefore presumably a threat which would jeopardise the world purely so that you could save it. In other words, you'd be a villain; your fictive self might or might not be aware of it, but by definition you'd be part of the problem. Would someone like Batman figure that out? And would he then act accordingly? Yes.

I don't see how this can be a good idea unless you need Batman for something.
 
 
Ria
17:19 / 22.07.03
I don't get it.

if you wanted your servitor to appear in the DC continuity or whatever wouldn't you have to have that happen in an official DC book?

maybe you could create a whole new comic book-styled (or actual comic book if you can write and/or draw it) with our own characters and cross over with that.

more of a superhero/DC sort of universe than the one you "live" in.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:25 / 22.07.03
Oooh, interesting. Do you need the blessing/cooperation of the proprietor? Does mass distribution of the story matter - if you don't get it, will you be an eternal mini-elseworld?

Good call.
 
 
deja_vroom
18:43 / 22.07.03
Ok, let me tell you what I think:

Batman is, before anything else, just. So even if he gets pissed about the whole thing, I dodn't think it's likely he's gonna do you any harm like Lobo or any other bad motherfucker would. You could expect some hard time, but old bats would probably lecture you a bit (which is always nice if it comes from someone as smart as him).
But, and there's always a but, you have to keep in mind that you download these guys from wherever in your cerebellum they are, they're like softwares, and they can have bugs depending on how well performed was the banishing, or the invocation etc. I know this is just an over-elaborate version of an old advice, but just remember that the Batman you'll get, if something goes wrong, might still think he's acting fairly and honestly when he decides to tear your limbs apart... just be caucious that you don't unleash some bugged version of Batman on your psyche. That would be *bad* for you and your lovely mental bones, mm-hmm?
 
 
I The Golden Dawn-nie Darko U
18:50 / 22.07.03
maybe you could create a whole new comic book-styled (or actual comic book if you can write and/or draw it) with our own characters and cross over with that

DC Comics presents: Dial 'F' for Fictionsuit!
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
19:48 / 22.07.03
Well, Velvat, it has been a year since there last one...
Ok, Nick and everyone else, here's the way I see it, at least. (Mind you, I'm crazy, so I don't expect you to believe this yourself, necessarily) I exist in a fictional reality, so it seems quite possible that I can leave my fictional reality and travel to another one. Now, last night when I did this, I began by going into a trance and writing everything out in a comic book script for my multi-universal time travel...
and then I did it. I was in 1942. GL and the Sandman were there, in front of me, fighting. I called out the Specter. And Jason Blood (Jason FREAKIN' Blood) talked to me. Then I was back, and I kept in the trance and recorded it all down. It was really really awesome.

And if I Velvat and I somehow affect the comic books, think how awesome that will be...
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
01:08 / 23.07.03
so is this a fiction reality ala Animal Man where the 2 of you are the only ones who know it (like psycho pirate and AM himself, and the indian guy...been so long).

continuity could pose a problem, what with you guys being in a fic reality where you read comics about a fic reality containing people that you want to exist in your reality. unless it is the fictional reality i created and began posting on the barbelith underground as the other charecters in the story. it is very hard managing 2349 different personas to keep this thing seeming real you know...
 
 
Ria
01:50 / 23.07.03
AM in the above post means Animal Man rather than Alan Moore. yes, that confused me for a second. (hey both of them have turned up in DCU books, how about that...)
 
 
Quantum
14:35 / 25.07.03
When Alan Moore writes himself cameos in his work -Hellblazer (silhouette in the pub JC raises a glass to), Promethea (at the underground station) etc. isn't he doing a similar thing to vandal? Except he's coming in as creator, rather than reader.
 
 
C.Elseware
15:02 / 25.07.03
That would go badly for Johann Vasquez. He deliberately puts himself in the Zim world. That ain't something I'd be wanting to ally myself with. If I wrote something like that it'd be to purge it from me not put me in it.
 
 
adamswish
15:15 / 25.07.03
okay I can understand the draw of Batman as a character you would like to converse/interact with velvet, but as the other's have stated he's not a man to be trifled with.

How about focusing on Bruce Wayne instead. Okay I know it's the same guy but this way you get all the smarts of the character, not so much of the violence and it could lead to a nice littlestory.

If we take the rules of the cross-over that the two characters have to fight to begin with, then rather than go against Batman, how about a business battle with Wayne Industries (or what ever it's called, it's been a while).

Maybe I'm a coward but I would rather deal on a business setting with the character than butt heads in a superhero fashion with one of the hardest men in the DCU.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:10 / 25.07.03
I've changed my mind. I just want to see what happens. You go right on ahead.
 
 
Ria
18:13 / 25.07.03
I thought more of the avatars of Alan Moore which have appeared in the works of other people. he did not write the issue of HELLBLAZER in which he cameos. (he would not have anything to do with a straight DC book even though DC owns Wildstorm now.)
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
00:09 / 26.07.03
And of course, Grant is the main character in EVERYTHING he writes...*sadistic giggle*
Adamswish, you're forgetting. Bruce Wayne is the mask. It's always Batman, just sometimes Batman pretends to run a corporation-we all know it's really Lucious Fox who runs it
 
 
Bloody Chiclitz
15:51 / 29.07.03
Since the original DC characters (Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, etc.) were comic book characters in the universe of Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, etc. maybe the DCU will get folded into your universe entirely when the time comes for another Crisis.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:03 / 29.07.03
I was just reading a Grant Morrison interview in ANARCHY FOR THE MASSES: the disinfo guide the The Invisibles, where he says in his work with godforms, he often worked with superheroes. He said when he got into trouble or a dangerous situation with a spirit or entity, the solution he almost always used was to bring in Superman and have him handle it or come up with a solution. Since Superman always wins, he said it never failed. And I remember Impuslivelad and several other people talking in an old 'Lith thread about summoning/using incarnations of superheroes in magickal-type work.

With Grant M. working on a series (which looks like it could be a big huge Hypertime-type CRISIS-like deal) to bring the DCU to a more fully sentient state, they might REALLY get folded into your - and our - universe!
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
19:36 / 29.07.03
Bloody Chiclitz, that's exactly what I'm basing this whole thing on. We know that the DC universe, in any of it's many forms, can "communicate" via stories in other universes, because of the whole Barry-Allen-read-Golden-Age-Flash-stories thing. So, since I exist in a fictional universe where I read fictional comic books, and some of those same comic books refer to their characters reading other comic books and then meeting those people, why couldn't I meet the people I read about? I'm assuming Velvatvandal's thoughts on this are similar.
 
  

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