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Neil Gaiman's 1602

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The Strobe

12:41 / 23.07.03

OK, I had a look at the preview, and that's decidely dodgy; Fly's comment about Gaiman writing like a bad Gaiman fan is spot on. Oh look. A man with wings. A man with wings. Ugh.

Catjerome

12:59 / 23.07.03

Sounds like it _could_ be good if it's explored fully ... but it's likely to end up being an Easter Egg hunt for all of the analog characters (I felt the same way about *JLA: The Nail* - it felt less a real story and more a checklist: "And what's this character like in this world? And this one? And this one?").

Also I can see it lending itself to lots of throwaway idea-bombs that are never explored. Like in "Calliope" - all of those random ideas that Richard spouts could each make an interesting story but are instead just ... well, disposable, sadly.

Keith, like a scientist

13:23 / 23.07.03

"OK, I had a look at the preview, and that's decidely dodgy; Fly's comment about Gaiman writing like a bad Gaiman fan is spot on. Oh look. A man with wings. A man with wings. Ugh."

um...that's suppose to be Angel, one of the original X-Men...

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:40 / 23.07.03

Yes. We know. Gaiman knows we know. But he still has to hit us over the head with this fake 'sense of wonder' schtick: "An angel? No! A man with wings..."

Sax

13:44 / 23.07.03

Who was the Native American Indian guy meant to be? Ka-Zar?

Mister Six, whom all the girls

14:10 / 23.07.03

sigh

Quimper

14:54 / 23.07.03

The Native American is Capt. America. Roshas=Rogers.

diz

15:23 / 23.07.03

sigh

wow. that's ... schlocktastic.

The Native American is Capt. America. Roshas=Rogers

well, that would explain why he's blond. however: ~vomits~

Our Lady of The Two Towers

16:29 / 23.07.03

This is the danger of hype. If Marvel hadn't insanely gone on and teased us about this for what, two years now (I think it was pretty much since Joe Q took over, which was early 2001), then this comic comes out, some people would have gone 'oooh' others would have gone 'pooo' and the world turns. But instead we're looking forward to what we are told is going to be brilliant and we're given Gaiman-by-numbers. If you buy only one Gaiman related product this year it's going to be Endless Nights innit really?

Still, it's not like he needs the cash really is it? He can probably afford to have poor Iraqi children flown to his luxury estate and forced to write his comics for him these days...

diz

18:03 / 23.07.03

Still, it's not like he needs the cash really is it? He can probably afford to have poor Iraqi children flown to his luxury estate and forced to write his comics for him these days...

i don't know. i wonder sometimes. he seemed to really want to distance himself from comics ever since Sandman, and now he's returning in a big way, to a reliable cash cow (Endless Nights) and a mainstream superhero book (1602). it just seems a bit desperate, you know? maybe sales on Coraline weren't so good...

Uatu.is.watching

19:39 / 23.07.03

I am by no means a Gaiman apologist, but I feel I should point out that I really don't think the he's doing this strictly for the money. I know at least some of the money is set to go to the Miracleman legal fund.

Maybe he wants to write another comic because he misses the medium and wants to come "home". That might not make 1602 good, but I don't think he's doing it just to line his pockets.

I just hope there's no fairies.

grant

20:42 / 23.07.03

I wonder if Capt. America is supposed to be a Melungeon. Y'know, "Gone to Croatan" and all that.

I like the character sketches, and it basically seems a lot like the Marvel comics I read as a kid. Having fun with it. A trifle.

Krug

13:19 / 24.07.03

I agree with some of what you say Uatu.
It will probably read like shit but I think everyone should support the book if only for Miracleman.

Ellis says:

13:42 / 24.07.03

Peter Parquarugha?

Genius!

Sax

13:55 / 24.07.03

Perhaps he came over on the Aunt Mayflower.

I wonder if there's a fairytale-writing Grimm brother called Benjamin.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

17:16 / 24.07.03

& "I agree with some of what you say Uatu.
It will probably read like shit but I think everyone should support the book if only for Miracleman."

Ugh!!! Don't do it, buddy, I'm begging you!

Why not just save up to buy the original collections? Marvel would more likely than not scew wuth the original work (if they ever really reprint it) and introduce MARVEL Man to the Marvel U as I think Neil had stated ages ago. None of this, even in its rosiest of pictures, is worth buying this drivel.

Don't get me wrong, do what you like, buy what you like, but I'm just disappointed to hear that people are going to buy 1602 because a) it's Neil, or b) it would support Miracle Man in some way (I'm pretty sure Neil himself asked people to buy it to support his reprint effort, right?), rather than being genuinely excited about the project, which Grant seems to be.

My two cents.

diz

19:31 / 24.07.03

well, Mister Six, i'm not saying i'm going to swear off it. i'm probably going to read it in the store and see where it goes from there. i'm just skeptical, is all.

Krug

09:45 / 25.07.03

Well I never managed to finish Sandman so I don't know if I'll be able to read my copy.

And as long as Gaiman gets to finish his story (which is one of the few things I've liked by him) and Moore's Miracleman comes back into print, I don't really care if Marvel puts him in the Avengers or some other awful team book.

I can see it now...

ULTIMATE MARVELMAN being written by Chuck Austen with art by Rob Liefeld.

000

10:29 / 25.07.03

That I would buy.

The Strobe

11:48 / 25.07.03

I liked Gaiman's Mircleman more than anything else he wrote, so I'd be happy for the money to go an a legal fund.

But Flyboy has explained my point pretty much spot-on. He is the subtitler to my See Hear.

A man with wings!!!

The Falcon

13:09 / 25.07.03

Good to see no-one's overreacting, then.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

16:43 / 25.07.03

Another gem from the bespeckled one...

One final project Gaiman announced is a children's book called "The Graveyard Book" which is like "The Jungle Book" only set in a graveyard, where the protagonist was raised by dead people.

Gosh.

Ray Fawkes

19:28 / 25.07.03

You know, it's pretty easy to boil almost any concept down into something that sounds stupid or derivative if you try, especially if you don't have the actual work to provide context. Why not reserve judgement until you read the book?

Mister Six, whom all the girls

21:19 / 25.07.03

Sorry, I just hate the guy and find him to be a hack (even though he's one of the more commercially successful writers in comics... which makes me hurl my comments higher). And the fact that he's most likely going to succeed in getting people to buy a comic that he even views as sub standard ideas is pretty nauseating to me.

I sat through Neverwhere, so I feel kind of justified in tearing at him. I want that night of my life back.

But in my defense, Neil himself is the one who boiled the 'Graveyard Book' down to get people excited about his work. And that is a terrible 'teaser' isn't it?

If the work is good, I'd be very very surprised. To surmount that terrible premise, it'd have to damned amazing, wouldn't it?

Our Lady of The Two Towers

21:26 / 25.07.03

Sorry, what comic 'that he even views as sub standard ideas' of Gaiman's are we talking about here?

Mister Six, whom all the girls

21:30 / 25.07.03

1602.

He had said in an interview that he didn't want the ideas behind 1602 to get out because they're not that great.

The Falcon

01:37 / 26.07.03

Neverwhere was shit, but nevermind.

perceval

02:54 / 26.07.03

Nice to see that folks already know the book will be garbage without having actually read it. Or, is it just "cool" to bash Gaiman's work sight unseen because he's developed a level of popularity?

So, someone in the year 1602 is shocked to see a man with wings. I'd guess that wasn't a common sight in 1602.

E

The Falcon

04:37 / 26.07.03

Come on now, Perceval. Cynicism is so fuckin' cool these days.

I'm drunk and severely fed up of Barbelith (except for youse guys; you know who you are.) It is dull dull dull now. Let's fuckin' head.

Not joking.

The Strobe

06:33 / 26.07.03

OK, to make it clear: it is not people in the year 1602 crying "a man with wings"; it is Gaiman himself, shouting at his audience, whilst wearing his do you see what I've done there t-shirt.

I believe it's one of his favourite garments. I also find it hard to believe that the guy who did that wonderful run on Miracleman has also turned some utter tosh.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:01 / 26.07.03

Bye, Duncan. Don't forget to write. To tell us how shit Barbelith is when people express negative opinions. That are not your negative opinions.

I think it's fair to judge the pages currently printed, and they are, although perhaps redeemed by context, really a bit shit. The fact that Stevie Strange woulds that he couldst twice in the space of three frames suggests that Gaiman is writing this on autopilot.

Ganesh

09:30 / 26.07.03

Well, I think the man with wings is "cool" and will be leaving Barbelith forthwith.

Not not joking.

Catjerome

14:43 / 26.07.03

It'd make total sense for people in the year 1602 to be whizzing themselves and shrieking if they found a man with wings.

In the context of the written story, though, I have a sinking feeling it's going to be more like those nudgewinks that authors give you when they're writing period pieces or other stories where the reader has knowledge that the characters don't (in this case, knowledge about the marvel u.).

e.g. from the abridged Titanic script:

"Kate's Weaselly Fiance: Here is the art you asked for. It is by an artist named "Picasso." I am certain he will amount to nothing.

Kate: Ha ha ha. That is very funny to our 90's audience, because they know these priceless paintings will sink with the boat."

Our Lady of The Two Towers

16:49 / 26.07.03

I'd admit I'm interested in how this will all happen with the 1602-iverse not being an Elseworlds or What If? Does Marvel still pretend that it's primary universe is 'our' universe and that if we went to New York we'd see Spiderman, or have they done like DC and said it's not our world, so they can do more fun things?

Mister Six, whom all the girls

17:07 / 26.07.03

I do know that in the past years, the attempted a few comics that attempted to be comics in the Marvel Universe which was pretty cool, but a ropey concept.

You want ropier, try on Earth/Universe/Paradise X, where the enter the realm of multiple realities. In recent issues, they revealed (unless I'm terribly dim and this was the state of things all along) that the comic I was reading took place in present time, not the future, as I had thought. Therefore, it was the Marvel Universe if it accepted the passage of time rather than just restarting characters or freezing them in time (like Aunt May forever at death's door).

My best bet is that 1602 is going to have repurcussions in the Marvel Universe that will result in a new series and new things happening in a few core titles that reflect Neil's ideas... if it's a success. This could be like Heroes Reborn or something.

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