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Underground > Creation >

Mafia 5: Che cosa sara?

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00:37 / 20.06.03

Let's leave WTF Station for the gloaters and get discussion of another round of this pernicious vice into its own thread. The proposals on the table are:

A) Lolita High School (lolita nation)
B) Super Monkey Robot Trainwreck Gangwar (Qalyn)
C) A nice, relaxing nap (Orr)

Item C has its merits; I'm persisting in discussion of this on a purely theoretical basis, just to see if we can map out an even more gonzo version than Bagsy Mafia. I'm thinking a medieval fantasy setting, obviously.

I wasn't blown away by the Mafia vs Werewolf rules, not least because I don't think we can muster that many players. I did like the character of the Kingmaker, who secretly chooses a "king" to decide who will be lynched. Votes are held as usual but (at least until the Kingmaker gets killed) it's up to the king to decide who dies. After that, lynching works as usual.

To cut down on the number of needed players, I'm thinking 2 sets of 2 Heretics, whose primary goal is to wipe out the other Heresy and whose secondary goal is to slaughter the faithful Commoners, 2 Physicks, 2 Elves (Bulletproof), a Baron (Governor), a Vampire, a Kingmaker, and 5 filthy, malnourished, ignorant Commoners. The Vampire joins the Heresy that killed them, unless lynched. What happens if they're lynched? If they're lynchable, no Baron. With 2 Heresies gunning... I mean "swording" for each other, I don't think an Inquisitor is needed. I also reserve the right to secretly include characters--a magic sword or something, probably. We'd need at least 15 players, totalmente--excuse me, nel totale--which is a tall order. Maybe we could squeak by with twelve... up to y'all.

lolita nation, what were you thinking of?

01:21 / 20.06.03

I dunno, a lot of different things. Not necessarily connected.

--That the roleplaying theme business is gratuitous, & a good excuse for people to be funny and to show off their writing or creativity or what have you, but pretty unnecessary. I don't know if the funniness is enough reason to keep it - obviously it gets things going because the game is so different online, but it (for me) gets boring pretty fast.

--Being someone who played a lot in real life before online, I think the game is really slow, & should go faster. If I were moderating I'd consider saying we should vote twice a week and people without access should just not sign up. After 6 weeks or whatever it's like jesus, just get it over with. That also may be just me.

--I also don't really care for special characters. I think they tend to skew the game in favor of the villagers (Detectives especially) and add unnecessary complication. The paranoia and accusations and big facetious arguments should be there anyway without having to go all MS Excel on it. It's been fun in person without having a General Surgeon and a Drug Czar and whatever the fuck when I've played. I don't know. I am lazy, that's not news, but surely it would be cool to play with just mafia and innocent?

Finally, you go ahead and host it, Qalyn. I had the HS idea during Mafia 2 but I will never have the guts to moderate myself. Plus I like to play so I can send Rambo to people.

02:28 / 20.06.03

I think the role playing stuff and the cracking wise and all that is what's fun about playing it online--I dunno why it's good to take out the strengths of the medium, like being able to take your time and lie/analize carefully, out. Why bother at all? (An earnest question, by the way. Maybe this baby needs a nap.)

It would be nice to have a quicker turnaround, but I don't know if it's practicible.

02:35 / 20.06.03

Ah, sleep, that knits up the ravelled sleeve of care. Chief nourisher at life's feast; great nature's balm. Methought I heard a voice cry 'sleep no more'. The mafia doth murder sleep.

Going well so far. 0430 Zulu time and still posting.

Sorry to punk out, but better now than during. If (as seems the case) there is a difference of opinion as to the strengths and benefits of such aspects as special characters, time limits and so on, could I stick a particularly biased vote in for Qalyn to host the next round? Should Lolita care to share duties on a sleeker, quicker, fast and dirty round after that I would be only to happy to help.

02:56 / 20.06.03

Cool! That's very full of the milk of human kindness of you, Orr. How about we put my name on it and you come up with all the witty parts? Ha ha ha ha, I'm kidding.

SORT OF.

03:03 / 20.06.03

Am I coming off hostile or competitive? Not my intent. I'm not sure Roller Derby Trainwreck Southie Mafia works at all. I just wanted to discuss the possibilities, maaaan.

03:06 / 20.06.03

And why is "ravelled" synonymous with "unravelled"?

03:15 / 20.06.03

Because he's Shakespeare and he was making it up as he went along. See also 'flammable' and 'inflammable'.

And Lolita - well, you do have the catchier name...

03:28 / 20.06.03

Hubert Humbert High?

03:35 / 20.06.03

Why, the illiterate twat!

05:52 / 20.06.03

I kind of like the idea of two competing bands of Heretics... could be fun. And I'm definitely into having a character - I like writing myself as somebody at least a little different.

I agree that the game needs to move faster. Maybe a penalty for not voting within a pre-arranged limit - losing your special powers for that turn? If there's only one MAFIA left there's no hit for that night, the vampire just dies like a normal villager if hit/lynched, the detective can't ask about anybody... etc.

I don't know if I'm quite ready for another game right now, but I'm having a wonderful time with this (and the game is mostly responsible for me coming close to the magic number of 666 posts in barely over a year!).

07:30 / 20.06.03

Having just finished "Q" I'd love to get in on a Heretics/Inquisitors-style game.

"Eh, he's been abyoosin' himself I'll be bound. I must take him to task for it, eh!" - Father Image, from "Ceedrow Willie"

Whisky Priestess

12:32 / 20.06.03

I pretty much agree with a lot of what is said above - I like the role-playing aspect of the game because it's fun and makes it all the more interesting (for me anyway). Those who don't wish to indulge usually drop the persona after a few posts anyway. It shouldn't be obligatory but neither should it be banned.

The game does move too slowly - I'm afraid I noticed that too, and I'm sorry to have made it a week between lynchings; that was definitely too long. Having said that, people didn't have to vote on Thursday and Friday - they could have started voting on Monday and lynched by Tuesday, it's just that they tended to leave it to the last minute. The Friday deadline was a sop to those who had troublesome/irregular net access so that we could a) muster enough players b) get a full vote every time.

I also agree with Iszabelle's suggestion that those who miss or are late with a vote should not be killed, but their vote shouldn't be counted and perhaps they should be penalised by losing their power for one round - the only problem is that this penalises every player on their side too, and it's not very fair to other players.

Again, I agree with Lolita who says that if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, and if you can't commit to logging on twice a week minimum to vote, don't play the game. Punk. Although I thought that the SSW clear-out of the first three non/late-voters was an excellent idea - it got rid of a lot of dead wood, (and how did I know that Lionheart would be among those who couldn't be arsed to play properly? I dunno, call it ESP.)

I am not particularly bothered about special characters, fun though they are for the players, but I think it would be worthwhile playing with at least a Detective and a Doctor. I am going to be pretty busy and away from my beloved PC for long periods in the next few weeks, however, so I'd better put my money where my mouth is and not sign up in case I can't play the game properly. I will merely watch with avuncular and kindly interest.

12:50 / 20.06.03

I'll play any game, special characters/no, but I would perfer to have two votes a week. Qalyn's heretics v. heretics sounds like fun. I liked playing with special characters, but maybe that's just because I lasted to the very end for the first time.

As far as the role-playing aspect goes, I suggest that rather than jettison it completely, we can tone it down a bit. Some of the posts get to be far too long, for far to little information. And I always seem to choose some sort of baroque, unplayable persona, or one that can be used against me in unpleasant ways...but that's my fault.

Sum up:

Qalyns game: thumbs up
Lolita High School: Thumbs up ( I think if we type that enough times it will become the de facto title. And then I can indulge myself in all sorts of Nabokovian puns. meh)
Two votes a week: thumbs up
Role Playing: limited thumbs up

I wonder if it would be possible to do a mafia "lightning round" - like have everyone available for votes over two or three days, so there's no time for elaborate strategizing. Though with the transatlantic time difference that may be futile.

and Lolita, you should definitely organize a NYC real live game. How many players would we need to do a good live game? I've never done it.

12:51 / 20.06.03

'Avuncular'? - is there something you're not telling us, Whisky?

I liked the special characters this time around (mainly 'cos I got to be special) but I'm not convinced by the governor and the changeling. Please don't take this as criticism of those players in any way. Personally, I like my lynchings to be be final, messy and fraught with uncertainty. One of the factors that lead to a sense of the game lagging were the longeurs were nobody died. I realise that this became a critical factor in the game, but if we hadn't lost three people on the first 'night', this round would have taken for ever. The problem is, that without failible lynchings, I can't see how the vampire would work. My criticism of the changeling is simply that, paired with a vamp, there was a good chance that he could have gone onto the mafia's side and unbalanced the game. I love the idea of turncoats during the game, but wouldn't it make more sense to have one going either way? Hmmm, have to think this one through. It's all a little half-baked at present.

13:01 / 20.06.03

Well, if you have the Vampire, I think you have to have the governor, otherwise, if someone's lynching doesn't go off, the village automatically knows they're guilty. I guess you'd also need the doctor, too.

The changeling...was fun. I don't think it would necessarily unbalance the game on the side of the baddies. If you're playing with, say, 14 players, with 3 mafia and 1 vampire, there's only a 1 in 11 chance the changeling could be the Vampire. Not very likely, but you're right, a Mafia that manages to kill the Vampire on the first night would be unstoppable in two days.

I'd also point out that the changeling would rarely function the way it did in the last game - where I was emboldened to reveal myself as such to the group. Usually, the Mafia would suceed on the first hit, and everyone would know what the changeling had become. So there'd be little impetus to out oneself as such right away. In my case, there was enough mystery in the minds of the Village and the Mafia that I thought it would prolong my life to tell everyone I was the changeling.

14:06 / 20.06.03

I see what you all mean about the role-playing being a worthwhile part of playing it online. I hadn't thought about it that way. The online game is really different from the real one, isn't it? The main problem I have with it is that it seems to split the game into two parts that don't necessarily have anything to do with each other - a role-playing game and a mafia game. The funny characters and whatever certainly make the thread more enjoyable to read, but are they supposed to actually have anything to do with the game? Like, if you are for instance a Changeling, are you supposed to pick a character that would reflect that? I think I wouldn't get so fed up with the theme stuff if I knew what it was for. Part of the game, or pure entertainment?

14:08 / 20.06.03

Oh and Todd, I think that already has become the de facto title, even though I really liked your Heathers idea. To play in real life, I think you'd need a minimum of maybe ten people? Eight? Somewhere around there.

Whisky Priestess

15:03 / 20.06.03

Yeah, I think the role-playing factor has to be purely to amuse outrselves rather than to reflect the characters, unless you wanted everyone to know what you were - mainly because the Mafia are unlikely to get into the true spirit of things and go around calling themselves Don Silvio and referring to rubbing people out ...

Alphonse commands you!

16:07 / 20.06.03

Whatever it turns out to be, I'd like to sign up for the next game. I'm a mafia virgin, though, so please be gentle.

otherjerry & the unworkable siblings

17:38 / 20.06.03

i'll play again. sorry i missed the last round, that one seemed like a lot of fun.

about the length of the game. i think the cool thing about playing mafia online is that it does take so long. having a game last a few weeks is really cool. but, it needs to have some action. i hate logging in to check whats going on only to find like one message that isn't even funny. people should have to post often and be funny at all times.

as far as different characters go, it's good if everyone gets to have some cool power. everybody is a special snowflake, etc.

i'll play whatever, but lolita's idea is best. later!

00:44 / 21.06.03

the Mafia are unlikely to get into the true spirit of things and go around calling themselves Don Silvio and referring to rubbing people out ...

Damn, I wish I'd thought of that.

So, I've got:

rat
Todd
bjaques
Iszabelle
Mr. Livedog
otherjerry

expressing a definite interest in Mega Death Rodeo Mafia. Am I missing anyone? If we get 15--or 12?--players who'll commit to twice-weekly voting, we can start. No rush, though. Unless I'm hit by a bus or elected to public office or something I'm sure I'll be available to run it in a few weeks, when more people are available/in the mood. We could even do Fast Times at Lolita High first--I'd also like to play in that one.

00:46 / 21.06.03

(Please ignore subliminal mention of '80s metal band Megadeth.)

04:49 / 21.06.03

i hate logging in to check whats going on only to find like one message that isn't even funny. people should have to post often and be funny at all times.

You know, I can think of some of my siblings for whom this might be totally unworkable.

04:47 / 22.06.03

Count me in! I'll be better this time!

otherjerry & the unworkable siblings

15:50 / 22.06.03

You know, I can think of some of my siblings for whom this might be totally unworkable.

meaning i don't post often enough, right?

16:18 / 22.06.03

Absolutely.

otherjerry & the unworkable siblings

14:43 / 23.06.03

so when are we going to start, anyway?

15:03 / 23.06.03

I think enough people need to sign up. You can put me down for Psychedelic Roman Carnival Assrodeo Mafia, Qalyn, if you didn't get my name already.

15:03 / 23.06.03

Quoth Qalyn:

If we get 15--or 12?--players who'll commit to twice-weekly voting, we can start.

15:11 / 23.06.03

I think I'd be more into a stripped-down, strategy-high game with as few special characters as possible (although I think having a detective or two keeps things fun).

So count me in for that un.

15:48 / 23.06.03

I will play. I think the High School theme has merit. Something like a cross between sailor moon, heathers & battle royale.

16:59 / 23.06.03

Is the level of strategy really inversely proportional to the number of special characters? Do you think there are too many in my proposal?

17:40 / 23.06.03

I though there was more strategy with the special characters.

I think your set-up is spot-on, Q.

00:27 / 24.06.03

Change of name: Was formerly rat but have changed to real name - Cass.

Just confirming my interest in the next Mafia round. Qalyn's set-up sounds intriguing and I'm more than happy to pick up the pace of voting rounds...

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